Want Tejada? Trade ARam

[USSoccer]

That trade proposal made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. Even if it was A-Ram straight up for Tejada, the Cubs are a weaker team offensively.

 

...if you get a full season out of ARam

 

pretty much an unnecesary quip, but I'll play

 

as if the Cardinals thirdbaseman is the picture of health. the best thing that could have happened to his knees is his shoulder injury.

 

Aram gets the nagging pulls that don't go away, but Rolen has two chronic knees and now a shoulder that may never be the same.

 

Hopefully the trainer the Cubs sent to the DR to work with him this winter will pay off, offensively and defensively.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

That trade proposal made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. Even if it was A-Ram straight up for Tejada, the Cubs are a weaker team offensively.

 

...if you get a full season out of ARam

 

pretty much an unnecesary quip, but I'll play

 

as if the Cardinals thirdbaseman is the picture of health. the best thing that could have happened to his knees is his shoulder injury.

 

Aram gets the nagging pulls that don't go away, but Rolen has two chronic knees and now a shoulder that may never be the same.

 

I would trade Rolan for Miggy.

[Blueheart05]

That trade proposal made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. Even if it was A-Ram straight up for Tejada, the Cubs are a weaker team offensively.

 

...if you get a full season out of ARam

 

ARam will play in more than 162 games next season, all in a Cubs uniform. Miggy T will be next to him in every single one of those games.

 

More than 162 games must mean the post season is guaranteed? lol

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

They guy misses the last 6 weeks of a lost season and a handful of games in 2004 and suddenly he's injury prone enough to deal, wheras Nomar Garciaparra missed over 50% of the last two seasons, and people are wishing he was resigned. That makes no sense to me.

 

I cannot believe how underrated Aramis Ramirez is by some people. Everyoe forgets that on the day he got hurt, he led the Cubs in HR's, RBI, and was hitting over .300 after being bad in April and half of May. He's so good, and he's just hitting his prime.

 

C'mon, he's a Cards fan. He just doesn't know any better. :D

 

I agree with you completely. The guy's our best offensive player by quite a bit, in my opinion. And I will hold that opinion until Lee can show me that 2005 was not a fluke.

 

Hah yeah, you are probably right about me overrating his injury history.

 

If Ramirez is injury prone, what would that make Scott Rolen?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

That trade proposal made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. Even if it was A-Ram straight up for Tejada, the Cubs are a weaker team offensively.

 

...if you get a full season out of ARam

 

pretty much an unnecesary quip, but I'll play

 

as if the Cardinals thirdbaseman is the picture of health. the best thing that could have happened to his knees is his shoulder injury.

 

Aram gets the nagging pulls that don't go away, but Rolen has two chronic knees and now a shoulder that may never be the same.

 

I would trade Rolan for Miggy.

 

I would too...but I'd argue that Ramirez is more valuable than Rolen at this stage of their careers.

 

Rolen's last three seasons:

2005- 235/323/283

2004- 314/409/598

2003- 286/382/528

Carreer: 284/375/515

 

Rolen will be 31 next season.

 

Ramirez's last three seasons:

2005: 302/358/568

2004: 318/373/578

2003: 272/324/465

Career: 277/329/465

 

Ramirez will be 28 next season.

 

I'll grant that Rolen is head and shoulders ahead of Ramirez defensively, in fact the best defensive thirdbasemen I've ever seen play. But given their ages and all, I'd value Ramirez over Rolen at this point.

 

Tejada's numbers are similar to Ramirez over the last three seasons and he does play shortstop where those numbers are harder to come by. Tejada will be thirty next season.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't trade Ramirez for Tejada, but I wouldn't throw prospects with him to make the deal happen.

[USSoccer]

I wouldn't trade Ramirez for Tejada straight up because it doesn't make the team better. Yes, Tejada's production for his position is a little better than ARam's production for his position, but in the end it's not an appreciable difference. It ends up being a lateral move offensively.

 

I'd throw any prospects it took at Baltimore, but wouldn't give up anyone from our core for him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pet Peeve: Rolen is completely unnecessary in this discussion. We're talking about Ramirez, and when a Cards fan questions his injuries, the first thing brought up is Rolen. It's the same thing if a Cub fan questions Carpenter's durability, and a Card fan responds by questioning Prior or Wood. It doesn't accomplish anything but upsetting people.

[USSoccer]

Tejada or Ramirez.

 

.278 .336 .472 .808

.311 .360 .534 .894

.304 .349 .515 .864

 

or

 

.280 .330 .448 .778

.318 .373 .578 .951

.302 .358 .568 .926

 

 

Guess who is who.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Tejada or Ramirez.

 

.278 .336 .472 .808

.311 .360 .534 .894

.304 .349 .515 .864

 

or

 

.280 .330 .448 .778

.318 .373 .578 .951

.302 .358 .568 .926

 

 

Guess who is who.

 

Ramirez is obviously a better player offensively, however, we expect different offensive production from SS and 3B.

 

I'm just throwing that out there. I wouldn't trade ARam for Tejada straight across.

[Andy]

I'd never trade Ramirez for Tejada, and I know Hendry won't.

[USSoccer]

Tejada or Ramirez.

 

.278 .336 .472 .808

.311 .360 .534 .894

.304 .349 .515 .864

 

or

 

.280 .330 .448 .778

.318 .373 .578 .951

.302 .358 .568 .926

 

 

Guess who is who.

 

Ramirez is obviously a better player offensively, however, we expect different offensive production from SS and 3B.

 

I'm just throwing that out there. I wouldn't trade ARam for Tejada straight across.

 

Yeah, but at what point is production just production? You're just shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. You don't get better by losing ARam and gaining Tejada, you just changed the production to a different position. Plus, there aren't any decent 3B options out there to deal for or sign. There are at least a couple of decent SS options, and one of them is on your team.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Tejada or Ramirez.

 

.278 .336 .472 .808

.311 .360 .534 .894

.304 .349 .515 .864

 

or

 

.280 .330 .448 .778

.318 .373 .578 .951

.302 .358 .568 .926

 

 

Guess who is who.

 

Ramirez is obviously a better player offensively, however, we expect different offensive production from SS and 3B.

 

I'm just throwing that out there. I wouldn't trade ARam for Tejada straight across.

 

Yeah, but at what point is production just production? You're just shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. You don't get better by losing ARam and gaining Tejada, you just changed the production to a different position. Plus, there aren't any decent 3B options out there to deal for or sign. There are at least a couple of decent SS options, and one of them is on your team.

 

preachin' to the choir, brother. plus offensive production at SS is a luxury, not a priority. Tejada should only be pursued if he costs us minor league talent and even then there are limits.

[CubfaninCA]

If the Cubs are trading ARam to Baltimore, then they need to get back Miggy and Mora. Give the O's JWill and another player.

[oldcubsfan]

Tejada or Ramirez.

 

.278 .336 .472 .808

.311 .360 .534 .894

.304 .349 .515 .864

 

or

 

.280 .330 .448 .778

.318 .373 .578 .951

.302 .358 .568 .926

 

 

Guess who is who.

 

Ramirez is obviously a better player offensively, however, we expect different offensive production from SS and 3B.

 

I'm just throwing that out there. I wouldn't trade ARam for Tejada straight across.

 

Yeah, but at what point is production just production? You're just shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. You don't get better by losing ARam and gaining Tejada, you just changed the production to a different position. Plus, there aren't any decent 3B options out there to deal for or sign. There are at least a couple of decent SS options, and one of them is on your team.

 

preachin' to the choir, brother. plus offensive production at SS is a luxury, not a priority. Tejada should only be pursued if he costs us minor league talent and even then there are limits.

I think it safe to say the there will be no deal for ARam, that's only talk radio junk. However, offensive production doesn't matter what position produces it, be it SS or RF. Tejada is a wonderful player and I agree with you about getting him for mostly prospects. No one in the farm system is a "can't miss" prospect. If they turn out to be good players, so be it. You need to give up something in a trade.

[Mizzou]

wow. i don't think i'd trade Ramirez straight across for Tejada.

 

Neither would I. Aramis is better than Miggy.

[wrigley23]

Why would we trade aram for tejada? We are looking to add another bat, not trade one for another. That does us no good.

[Tim]

wow. i don't think i'd trade Ramirez straight across for Tejada.

 

Neither would I. Aramis is better than Miggy.

Is he better when you factor durability into the equation?

[USSoccer]

wow. i don't think i'd trade Ramirez straight across for Tejada.

 

Neither would I. Aramis is better than Miggy.

Is he better when you factor durability into the equation?

 

Tim, this past September was the longest extended period of time missed for Aramis since 2002. He's got to cure the nagging hammy issue, but it's not like he's the second coming of Alou, or Nomar even. His durability is not that big of a concern.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

More than 162 games must mean the post season is guaranteed? lol

 

I was wondering if anyone would comment. Yep. :wink:

[jjgman21]

wow. i don't think i'd trade Ramirez straight across for Tejada.

 

Neither would I. Aramis is better than Miggy.

Is he better when you factor durability into the equation?

 

interesting question, but if you are talking durability, you have to question how long before Tejada starts to break down considering he insists on playing winter ball.

 

he takes maybe a month and a half off a year. that's bound to catch up with a player after 10 years.

[USSoccer]

Also factor in that Aramis' numbers in 2003-2005 are all better than Tejada's and Tejada's played more games on average. Thus, his durability doesn't mean increased production. Rather, it's a sign that when Aramis gets his legs into better shape, he's going to completely blow Miggy out of the water, so to speak.

[Tim]

wow. i don't think i'd trade Ramirez straight across for Tejada.

 

Neither would I. Aramis is better than Miggy.

Is he better when you factor durability into the equation?

 

Tim, this past September was the longest extended period of time missed for Aramis since 2002. He's got to cure the nagging hammy issue, but it's not like he's the second coming of Alou, or Nomar even. His durability is not that big of a concern.

Yeah, but we're comparing him to baseball's current iron man. It is a factor.

 

My only real complaint with Tejada is that he walked less in three of the past five years than Corey did in 2004.

[Mizzou]

wow. i don't think i'd trade Ramirez straight across for Tejada.

 

Neither would I. Aramis is better than Miggy.

Is he better when you factor durability into the equation?

Well, he's still the better player whether he plays 140 games or 160 games. I wouldn't call Aramis injury prone though. As USS pointed out, he really hasn't been.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

FWIW, Ramirez is 2 years younger than Tejada as well.

[USSoccer]

wow. i don't think i'd trade Ramirez straight across for Tejada.

 

Neither would I. Aramis is better than Miggy.

Is he better when you factor durability into the equation?

 

Tim, this past September was the longest extended period of time missed for Aramis since 2002. He's got to cure the nagging hammy issue, but it's not like he's the second coming of Alou, or Nomar even. His durability is not that big of a concern.

Yeah, but we're comparing him to baseball's current iron man. It is a factor.

 

My only real complaint with Tejada is that he walked less in three of the past five years than Corey did in 2004.

 

Aramis 2004: .318 .373 .578 .951 . Games played that season: 145

Tejada 2004: .311 .360 .534 .894 . Games played that season: 162

 

Aramis 2005: .302 .358 .568 .926 . Games played that season: 123

Tejada 2005: .304 .349 .515 .864 . Games played that season: 162.

 

His iron man status doesn't reflect in their production when compared side by side. If anything, it shows that the Cubs were correct in sending a trainer down to the DR to work with Aramis. If he were able to play 155 games, his numbers would be Manny-esque.