Levine reporting about Tejada and Cubs

[don_kessinger_was_good]

JC, I can't give up Z, and I shouldn't have to for Tejada. I honestly think pitching quantity is more important to them ever righting the ship over there, it is in SUCH bad shape in Baltimore.

 

I start with Williams; Hill or Guzman (they pick); and Novoa or Wuertz (they pick) and see what kind of reply that gets. If they want Pie instead of one of the starters, I do that. If they want Cedeno to replace Tejada, I certainly do that.

 

We've got the pieces to get this done.

[Sabermetrician]

The only concern about trading for Tejada is that he can demand a trade after next year if traded, and if we don't meet those demands he can become a free agent on March 15. That's exactly what Javier Vazquez did this year. That would be crucial, I would have to be 100% sure he wouldn't do that if we traded for him.

 

1) I would give up Pie + Hill + Williams for Tejada, that would be a good value trade for both teams. I wouldn't even mind giving up Cedeno as well, Tejada is that good.

2) Sign Pierre to an extension before arbitration (3 years), so we have him for this season plus two more (Only do this if Pie is given up which would be likely)

3) Trade Walker for Bradley

4) Sign Tony Graffanino to play 2nd

 

New lineup:

CF Juan Pierre

2B Tony Graffanino

1B Derrek Lee

3B Aramis Ramirez

SS Miguel Tejada

RF Milton Bradley

LF Matt Murton

C Michael Barrett

 

Hello World Series?

Edited December 10, 2005 by Sabermetrician

[TB_11]

Zambrano and Harvey for Tejada and Bedard? :D

 

Unfortunately, I really think it would take a Z or Prior to land Tejada. Nobody likes the idea of losing a Zambrano, but now would be the time to do it. Millwood is still available via FA, and I think Beane would still move Zito. While I have the utmost respect for Z's ability, this team needs offense and SS stability. Upper tier pitchers are available every season, one way or another. The same CANNOT be said about Tejada caliber players.

 

Hendry needs to get this done.

 

Sadly I think you're right about it requiring Zambrano or Prior to get Tejada. We're not the only team that would love to land Tejada this offseason, and the Orioles will be getting trade offers that would net them very good, PROVEN players (like Manny). If the Cubs were the only team interested in Tejada, something along the lines of Pie+Cedeno+Williams and/or Hill might work. But unfortunately we're not the only team.

 

That beind said I'd rather not lose Prior or Z. JCs right - upper tier pitchers are availble every season, but they recently have been getting absurd salaries. I'd rather keep Prior and Z at reasonable price for as long as we can.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I wish Kerry Wood would demand a trade....

[snoodmonger]

We'll see, but I stand by what I said.

 

If the Cubs wind up trading for Tejada, Pie won't be part of the deal.

 

They might not get him and we might hear that refusal to include Pie was a deal breaker, but I believe Hendry will not part with him.

 

i agree

[CP_414]

Zambrano and Harvey for Tejada and Bedard? :D

 

Unfortunately, I really think it would take a Z or Prior to land Tejada. Nobody likes the idea of losing a Zambrano, but now would be the time to do it. Millwood is still available via FA, and I think Beane would still move Zito. While I have the utmost respect for Z's ability, this team needs offense and SS stability. Upper tier pitchers are available every season, one way or another. The same CANNOT be said about Tejada caliber players.

 

Hendry needs to get this done.

 

Sadly I think you're right about it requiring Zambrano or Prior to get Tejada. We're not the only team that would love to land Tejada this offseason, and the Orioles will be getting trade offers that would net them very good, PROVEN players (like Manny). If the Cubs were the only team interested in Tejada, something along the lines of Pie+Cedeno+Williams and/or Hill might work. But unfortunately we're not the only team.

 

That beind said I'd rather not lose Prior or Z. JCs right - upper tier pitchers are availble every season, but they recently have been getting absurd salaries. I'd rather keep Prior and Z at reasonable price for as long as we can.

 

To use your examples, I think Baltimore would be better off with Pie, Cedeno Williams/Hill + $10 million saved, than with Manny.

[JC]

Zambrano and Harvey for Tejada and Bedard? :D

 

Unfortunately, I really think it would take a Z or Prior to land Tejada. Nobody likes the idea of losing a Zambrano, but now would be the time to do it. Millwood is still available via FA, and I think Beane would still move Zito. While I have the utmost respect for Z's ability, this team needs offense and SS stability. Upper tier pitchers are available every season, one way or another. The same CANNOT be said about Tejada caliber players.

 

Hendry needs to get this done.

 

you're nuts.

 

Maybe. But, this isn't evidence of such. The trade proposal wasn't serious as I think different pieces are necessary and I don't know much about the Oriole's system, but I think Z would have to go. And, frankly, I'd consider it.

 

Everyone assumes that the Cubs are going to retain Z for the rest of his career and everyone will live happily every after. There are no such guarantees. The Evil Empire, Bahston, Anahiem or some Latin friendly club could vie for the services of Z upon FA. Lets not fall into the false assumption that the Cubs and Z will be a match for eternity. And, lets not forget that the strength of this organization is purportedly its young pitching (though Wanda Pierre took care of some of that talent).

 

So, am I nuts? Nuts like a fox!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...or something...

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Wasn't Greg Maddux a product of the Cubs farm system? His career went ok.

 

I think they're all yelling about position players. Pitchers don't count. [-(

 

how many years ago was that? 18-20? how does that translate to developing today's players?

[JC]

I'd rather keep Prior and Z at reasonable price for as long as we can.

 

I'd just add that that window of low salaries for those two is closing quickly.

[CP_414]

Wasn't Greg Maddux a product of the Cubs farm system? His career went ok.

 

I think they're all yelling about position players. Pitchers don't count. [-(

 

how many years ago was that? 18-20? how does that translate to developing today's players?

 

I don't think anyone said it had any significant relation to today's Cubs organization. I was just wondering who the last good position player we developed was. I even mentioned it was "Off Topic" when it was brought up.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Wasn't Greg Maddux a product of the Cubs farm system? His career went ok.

 

I think they're all yelling about position players. Pitchers don't count. [-(

 

how many years ago was that? 18-20? how does that translate to developing today's players?

 

I don't think anyone said it had any significant relation to today's Cubs organization. I was just wondering who the last good position player we developed was. I even mentioned it was "Off Topic" when it was brought up.

 

Ah. My bad. :oops:

 

We certainly aren't a stud producing factory, that's for sure. It's kind of sad considering how many high draft picks we had. You'd think losing would have helped us out in that fashion. :lol:

[CP_414]

Wasn't Greg Maddux a product of the Cubs farm system? His career went ok.

 

I think they're all yelling about position players. Pitchers don't count. [-(

 

how many years ago was that? 18-20? how does that translate to developing today's players?

 

I don't think anyone said it had any significant relation to today's Cubs organization. I was just wondering who the last good position player we developed was. I even mentioned it was "Off Topic" when it was brought up.

 

Ah. My bad. :oops:

 

We certainly aren't a stud producing factory, that's for sure. It's kind of sad considering how many high draft picks we had. You'd think losing would have helped us out in that fashion. :lol:

 

You'd think we would have lucked into 1 World Series win in the last 97 years too, but we're the Cubs.

[Outshined_One]

I'd rather keep Prior and Z at reasonable price for as long as we can.

 

I'd just add that that window of low salaries for those two is closing quickly.

 

And I think it would be in Jim Hendry's interest to hire some City of Chicago dumptrucks, fill them with cash, and then drive them up to Prior's and Zambrano's houses when said window is near its closing.

[Jehrico]

If we could just pry BWilk from TX for RF, Tejada at SS...I'd be happy with this offseason if we could go into next season with:

 

CF Pierre .360 OBP

2B Walker/JHJR .350 OBP

1B DLee .400 OBP

SS Tejada .350 OBP

3B Ramirez .370 OBP

RF BWilk .360 OBP

LF Murton .350 OBP

C Barrett .350 OBP

 

None of those OBPs are too unreasonable, maybe a little hopeful, but not unreasonable. I could go with that, that'd be a HUGE upgrade over last year.

 

Pen is solid, bottom of the rotation is the only worry. Wood would need to be healthy if we don't bag another starter, or Rusch would have to have another season like he had in '04.

 

Are you aware that the Cubs had a higher OBP last year than the 2 teams in the world series? Pitching wins.

 

I wasn't aware of that, and I know pitching wins. However, if your obviously weak on OBP, that doesn't mean you shouldn't puruse improving it. What pitchers are on the market that could be had for something reasonable? There's not alot to go after what would improve our starting pitching, and we already improved the pen.

[minnesotacubsfan]

o my god

 

all this Tejeda talk is giving me a turtle head

 

 

too much excitement!!!!!!!!!.......................

[Mizzou]

I don't think we'd have to give up Prior or Zambrano. It's not as if there are several teams out there that we'd have to compete with to acquire Tejada. After a quick glance, the only teams that I see that NEED a shortstop and have the money to take on Tejada's contract are the Cubs and Red Sox. I don't think the Red Sox have anyone on Z or Prior's level (young, dominant, cheap) so it's not like they could offer a better proposal of major league ready talent and Hendry would be forced to include one of those two. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see why we'd have to give up either of our aces. Just thinking out loud.

 

I would propose Hill, Cedeno, Novoa and Ohman and see what they think of that.

[Jehrico]

I don't think we'd have to give up Prior or Zambrano. It's not as if there are several teams out there that we'd have to compete with to acquire Tejada. After a quick glance, the only teams that I see that NEED a shortstop and have the money to take on Tejada's contract are the Cubs and Red Sox. I don't think the Red Sox have anyone on Z or Prior's level (young, dominant, cheap) so it's not like they could offer a better proposal of major league ready talent and Hendry would be forced to include one of those two. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see why we'd have to give up either of our aces. Just thinking out loud.

 

I would propose Hill, Cedeno, Novoa and Ohman and see what they think of that.

Plus, the O's are reported to be hesitant to deal him within their own divisoin. If our offer is close to Boston's, I would think they would prefer ours.

[da bears]

Does everyone think we actually have a shot at getting Tejada? I would love if the deal happened, but just searching around the internet, it seems like the only news I've seen concerning the Cubs and Tejada is Bruce Miles article. The rest of the articles concern Boston being a likely trade partner.

[JC]

If we could just pry BWilk from TX for RF, Tejada at SS...I'd be happy with this offseason if we could go into next season with:

 

CF Pierre .360 OBP

2B Walker/JHJR .350 OBP

1B DLee .400 OBP

SS Tejada .350 OBP

3B Ramirez .370 OBP

RF BWilk .360 OBP

LF Murton .350 OBP

C Barrett .350 OBP

 

None of those OBPs are too unreasonable, maybe a little hopeful, but not unreasonable. I could go with that, that'd be a HUGE upgrade over last year.

 

Pen is solid, bottom of the rotation is the only worry. Wood would need to be healthy if we don't bag another starter, or Rusch would have to have another season like he had in '04.

 

Are you aware that the Cubs had a higher OBP last year than the 2 teams in the world series? Pitching wins.

 

I wasn't aware of that, and I know pitching wins. However, if your obviously weak on OBP, that doesn't mean you shouldn't puruse improving it. What pitchers are on the market that could be had for something reasonable? There's not alot to go after what would improve our starting pitching, and we already improved the pen.

 

While OCF is correct, it doesn't really tell the whole story about playoff teams and OBP.

 

Of the 8 teams to reach the playoffs this year, 6 of them had higher OBPs than the Cubs. The Sox and Astros relied on freaking unreal pitching that the Cubs didn't really come close to with the current staff.

 

In addition, all 8 playoff teams of 2004 easily surpassed the pedestrian OBP of the Cubs that year. Ironically, it was higher than the 2005 version of the Cubs.

 

More OBP, please.

 

EDIT: Just for good measure, of the 8 playoff teams in 2003, 6 were in the top 10 in OBP, easily outclassing the Cubs in that category. Oakland was the only other playoff team besides the Cubs not in the top 10, but they still topped the Cubs.

[10man]

Does everyone think we actually have a shot at getting Tejada? I would love if the deal happened, but just searching around the internet, it seems like the only news I've seen concerning the Cubs and Tejada is Bruce Miles article. The rest of the articles concern Boston being a likely trade partner.

YES, for just the simple fact that Boston is in the O's division and teams are always reluctant about strengthening a team they will be competing against directly.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I wouldn't trade Z or Prior for Tejada.

[TB_11]

Zambrano and Harvey for Tejada and Bedard? :D

 

Unfortunately, I really think it would take a Z or Prior to land Tejada. Nobody likes the idea of losing a Zambrano, but now would be the time to do it. Millwood is still available via FA, and I think Beane would still move Zito. While I have the utmost respect for Z's ability, this team needs offense and SS stability. Upper tier pitchers are available every season, one way or another. The same CANNOT be said about Tejada caliber players.

 

Hendry needs to get this done.

 

Sadly I think you're right about it requiring Zambrano or Prior to get Tejada. We're not the only team that would love to land Tejada this offseason, and the Orioles will be getting trade offers that would net them very good, PROVEN players (like Manny). If the Cubs were the only team interested in Tejada, something along the lines of Pie+Cedeno+Williams and/or Hill might work. But unfortunately we're not the only team.

 

That beind said I'd rather not lose Prior or Z. JCs right - upper tier pitchers are availble every season, but they recently have been getting absurd salaries. I'd rather keep Prior and Z at reasonable price for as long as we can.

 

To use your examples, I think Baltimore would be better off with Pie, Cedeno Williams/Hill + $10 million saved, than with Manny.

 

How so? Pie, Cedeno, and Hill haven't proven anything in the majors, and Williams has pitched less than 400 innings total. How they will perform is very uncertain, while Ramirez's production for the remainder of his contract is more predictable. I think that Baltimore would rather take the "surer" bet in a trade situation. Just my .02.

[JC]

Manny may be expensive. But, Angelos has the money, and Manny produces on par with his salary. I am often surprised at how underappreciated/valued Manny is. Sure, he is a headcase. But, he still produces during his "episodes", his teammates continue to like him (see, Pedro, Ortiz, Damon), and his consistency is staggering.

[CP_414]

Zambrano and Harvey for Tejada and Bedard? :D

 

Unfortunately, I really think it would take a Z or Prior to land Tejada. Nobody likes the idea of losing a Zambrano, but now would be the time to do it. Millwood is still available via FA, and I think Beane would still move Zito. While I have the utmost respect for Z's ability, this team needs offense and SS stability. Upper tier pitchers are available every season, one way or another. The same CANNOT be said about Tejada caliber players.

 

Hendry needs to get this done.

 

Sadly I think you're right about it requiring Zambrano or Prior to get Tejada. We're not the only team that would love to land Tejada this offseason, and the Orioles will be getting trade offers that would net them very good, PROVEN players (like Manny). If the Cubs were the only team interested in Tejada, something along the lines of Pie+Cedeno+Williams and/or Hill might work. But unfortunately we're not the only team.

 

That beind said I'd rather not lose Prior or Z. JCs right - upper tier pitchers are availble every season, but they recently have been getting absurd salaries. I'd rather keep Prior and Z at reasonable price for as long as we can.

 

To use your examples, I think Baltimore would be better off with Pie, Cedeno Williams/Hill + $10 million saved, than with Manny.

 

How so? Pie, Cedeno, and Hill haven't proven anything in the majors, and Williams has pitched less than 400 innings total. How they will perform is very uncertain, while Ramirez's production for the remainder of his contract is more predictable. I think that Baltimore would rather take the "surer" bet in a trade situation. Just my .02.

 

I don't think the upgrade from Tejada to Manny is near enough to have a huge impact on the O's. Baltimore needs to take the risk with the higher upside, because the "sure bet" isn't enough to make them contend. By taking that Cubs proposal they save $10M a year for 4 years.

 

Sign a stud pitcher (Milwood) to a 4 year/40M contract. I think Williams is a capable #4 at this point, and will only get better. With Milwood, Bedard, and Cabrera he would be the #4 there. Pie has huge upside, and Cedeno and Hill can be very good MLB players too. I doubt ALL of those prospect work out, but even if some do Baltimore would be in good shape. Also don't forget that Manny has 3 years left on his deal, while they would have Pie for 6 years, Cedeno and Hill for 5 or 6, and Williams for a few years too. I also am assuming that Boston would give cash to make the Manny-Tejada money the same. If Boston isn't offering cash, the Cubs deal saves Baltimore an additional $8M a year to pursue free agents.

 

If Baltimore was a team that could contend for a World Series in the next 2 years, I agree with you and take Manny. I don't think they can contend now.

[A New Era]

Does everyone think we actually have a shot at getting Tejada? I would love if the deal happened, but just searching around the internet, it seems like the only news I've seen concerning the Cubs and Tejada is Bruce Miles article. The rest of the articles concern Boston being a likely trade partner.

 

Well Bruce's report isn't the only thing talking abou it. It's on the Score, ESPN 1000, and XM Radio MLB Home Plate. Everyone is talking about it.

 

Someone on another thread said someone who is close to Tejada said Tejada would be happy to come to the Cubs if a trade happened.