Gut feeling: Are we headed for a worst-case scenario?

[BigbadB]

You're right Goony in that we need to win now. I'll agree Giles is a way better option than J Jones but I myself and others would argue that at the end of his contract he wouldn't be worth it. No one knows how much he'll regress, nobody knows if he'd even sign a 3 yr deal with the Cubs but I'll also argue with anybody on the topic that unless your a fly on the wall in Mr. Hendry's office you have no idea what it would take to get Giles away from San Diego. If it's the weather or family or whatever the reason he signed with the Padres for so cheap, nobody knows. I'll agree the push for him to sign with the Cubs wasn't Hendry's best effort but who knows why Giles didn't test the market a little more.

 

We do need to win now. If the Cubs went out and won the World Series this year or next year, would we really care if Giles turned into a Luis Gonzalez production wise outfielder for his final year? If it appeared he was going to turn into that type of player, couldn't the Cubs have picked up 5m or so of his final year and shipped him back to San Diego?

 

We don't know if he would have signed with the Cubs. At 13-15m a year for 3 years, I think he would have. No team offered him that much. He signed so quickly with San Diego because if he didn't, he wouldn't have been able to go back if the Padres didn't offer arbitration, which I doubt they would have. They came up with that offer at or near the final days that he could still return to the Padres or wait until May 1. The offers entertained didn't appear to me to be any better than what San Diego finally matched. I don't blame him for staying if the club you are now with in the town you'd prefer to be in is basically offering up the same deals that have been offered elsewhere. Sure, he could have gambled that some team would have coughed up 13m eventually, but since no one had done it yet, why risk not being able to resign with the Padres?

 

Surely, it was a gamble to pay top dollar for Giles considering he'd be 35-37 over the life of the contract. But, Moises Alou didn't completely disappoint (some were more enamored with him than others) over the life of his contract, and he was also 35, 36 and 37 during that contract. Heck, he was even better at age 38 last year.

[wastra]

gooney i am curious to how you think st louis has a solid lineup? compare position to position and i feel we are better.

just curios as to what makes them so much better and how they dont have a galring hole in RF.

 

They've been significantly better year after year. They haven't regressed enough, and the Cubs haven't improved enough to make up the difference. Jones is not better than whoever they throw out there in right, Encarnacion is very similar, and quite possibly better since he's younger and coming off a better season in a pitchers park. Pujols is likely going to be much better than Lee this year. Lee is probably going to regress from last year a bit, with Pujols staying the same (although he has a shot to be even better). I'm not about to guarantee Cedeno will hit as well as Eckstein, and besides, Neifi will get a lot of time out there, and guarantee less production than Eck. Likewise, Murton, and whatever hack veteran Dusty replaces him with are not guarantees to outproduce STL LF.

 

You can't compare offenses with simple ><= looks at each position.

 

I agree. the bottom line is that St. Louis' lineup has been VASTLY superior to ours in the results columns for several years at least, and replacing Walker and Sanders (both of whom missed a huge portion of the season) with Taguchi and Encarnacion isn't enough of a drop-back toexpect them to come to our level, when simply replacing Patterson and Burnitz with Jones and Pierre (and Nomar and possibly Walker with Perez/Cedeno) doesn't drastically improve our own lineup.

[UK1679666180]

gooney i am curious to how you think st louis has a solid lineup? compare position to position and i feel we are better.

just curios as to what makes them so much better and how they dont have a galring hole in RF.

 

They've been significantly better year after year. They haven't regressed enough, and the Cubs haven't improved enough to make up the difference. Jones is not better than whoever they throw out there in right, Encarnacion is very similar, and quite possibly better since he's younger and coming off a better season in a pitchers park. Pujols is likely going to be much better than Lee this year. Lee is probably going to regress from last year a bit, with Pujols staying the same (although he has a shot to be even better). I'm not about to guarantee Cedeno will hit as well as Eckstein, and besides, Neifi will get a lot of time out there, and guarantee less production than Eck. Likewise, Murton, and whatever hack veteran Dusty replaces him with are not guarantees to outproduce STL LF.

 

You can't compare offenses with simple ><= looks at each position.

 

Agreed, plus Edmonds will simply dwarf Pierre as far as production, regardless of role.

[BigbadB]

gooney i am curious to how you think st louis has a solid lineup? compare position to position and i feel we are better.

C. barrett >Molina

1B. Lee<=Pujols pujols is slightly better

2B walker>spivey

SS Cedeno =eckstein

3B Aramis=Rolen both good but injury prone

LF Murton>taguchi

CF pierre

RF Jones> whoever they throw out there

 

just curios as to what makes them so much better and how they dont have a glaring hole in RF.

 

You can compare them one on one, but it doesn't really tell you all that much. Both teams had a .270 AVG as a team last year. The Cubs out hit the Cardinals and outslugged them as well. Here's a real intersting stat. The Cardinals struck out more often than Cub hitters last year.

 

But, what makes St. Louis better offensively is their ability to get on base, which is really the truest indicator of run production.

 

The Cubs had 36 more doubles than the Cardinals.

The Cards had 3 more triples than the Cubs

The Cubs had 24 more home runs than the Cardinals.

The Cubs had 46 more hits than the Cardinals.

 

You would think the Cubs were the better overall team just looking at these stats. But, the most important element that is missing here is the ability to get on base via the lousy walk. You know, the guy who comes around to score nearly every time you watch one of our relievers give up a lead off walk. It's because a walk is not an out. A walk rarely drives in runs, but it sure is responsible for a lot of runs scored.

 

Here's the real difference between offenses. The Cubs had a team OBP of .324 last year. The Cardinals had a team OBP of .339. Those 15 percentage points has a lot to do with the fact the Cardinals scored more than 100 more runs than the Cubs did last year. 102 to be exact. How many more runs could the Cubs have scored with all those extra doubles, and single's and Home Runs they hit over the Cardinals if they just found some guys to walk their way on base ahead of those hits?

 

Same problem every year. Cubs management doesn't believe in clogging bases with walks. Get up there and swing away. Let's see how few pitches we can see while some guy named Casey Daigle throws a 5 hit shut out in under 80 pitches. Horrible philosophy.

 

It's not completely about OBP. But, until Cubs management recognizes the value of the walk, and quit signing guys who don't know how to walk, this team will never surpass the Cardinals in offensive production.

[CubfaninCA]

gooney i am curious to how you think st louis has a solid lineup? compare position to position and i feel we are better.

C. barrett >Molina

1B. Lee<=Pujols pujols is slightly better

2B walker>spivey

SS Cedeno =eckstein

3B Aramis=Rolen both good but injury prone

LF Murton>taguchi

CF pierre

RF Jones> whoever they throw out there

 

just curios as to what makes them so much better and how they dont have a glaring hole in RF.

 

Cardinal luck >>>>>>> Cub luck

Eckstein will tear apart the league again, so Eck > Cedeno

[CubfaninCA]

You're right Goony in that we need to win now. I'll agree Giles is a way better option than J Jones but I myself and others would argue that at the end of his contract he wouldn't be worth it. No one knows how much he'll regress, nobody knows if he'd even sign a 3 yr deal with the Cubs but I'll also argue with anybody on the topic that unless your a fly on the wall in Mr. Hendry's office you have no idea what it would take to get Giles away from San Diego. If it's the weather or family or whatever the reason he signed with the Padres for so cheap, nobody knows. I'll agree the push for him to sign with the Cubs wasn't Hendry's best effort but who knows why Giles didn't test the market a little more.

 

We do need to win now. If the Cubs went out and won the World Series this year or next year, would we really care if Giles turned into a Luis Gonzalez production wise outfielder for his final year? If it appeared he was going to turn into that type of player, couldn't the Cubs have picked up 5m or so of his final year and shipped him back to San Diego?

 

We don't know if he would have signed with the Cubs. At 13-15m a year for 3 years, I think he would have. No team offered him that much. He signed so quickly with San Diego because if he didn't, he wouldn't have been able to go back if the Padres didn't offer arbitration, which I doubt they would have. They came up with that offer at or near the final days that he could still return to the Padres or wait until May 1. The offers entertained didn't appear to me to be any better than what San Diego finally matched. I don't blame him for staying if the club you are now with in the town you'd prefer to be in is basically offering up the same deals that have been offered elsewhere. Sure, he could have gambled that some team would have coughed up 13m eventually, but since no one had done it yet, why risk not being able to resign with the Padres?

 

Surely, it was a gamble to pay top dollar for Giles considering he'd be 35-37 over the life of the contract. But, Moises Alou didn't completely disappoint (some were more enamored with him than others) over the life of his contract, and he was also 35, 36 and 37 during that contract. Heck, he was even better at age 38 last year.

 

It's easy to throw out figures when you're not the guy whose butt's on the line if an aging player takes a major slide halfway through a $45 million contract. Just as you're definite Giles would have taken a 3 & 45, I'm definite Trib higher ups would have stopped such a deal dead in it's tracks. That's just a heck of a lot of money for an aging ballplayer.

[BigbadB]

It's easy to throw out figures when you're not the guy whose butt's on the line if an aging player takes a major slide halfway through a $45 million contract. Just as you're definite Giles would have taken a 3 & 45, I'm definite Trib higher ups would have stopped such a deal dead in it's tracks. That's just a heck of a lot of money for an aging ballplayer.

 

What, I'm not supposed to throw out figures now? This is a message board for cryin' out loud. What are we supposed to talk about?

 

While Giles was my favorite direction this offseason, I didn't say it was the ONLY direction. I would have been fine with a combination of Wilkerson, Bradley, Michaels, Huff, Floyd, etc...

 

Guys who can get on base at a healthy clip. Spread it around if need be. Don't give a guy 15m if you know you can get 3 or 4 guys with "good" OBP's rather than 1 awesome OBP. I really don't care.

 

But, to fill your line up with Neifi Perez, Jacque Jones and Alfonso Soriano, the team is just falling into the same trap they always fall into. Lack of plate discipline and lack of OBP.

[BigbadB]

I'm definite Trib higher ups would have stopped such a deal dead in it's tracks. That's just a heck of a lot of money for an aging ballplayer.

 

Where were the Trib higher ups when a lot of money was being handed out to a crappy ballplayer? 15m is what they gave a crappy ballplayer just last week.

[CubfaninCA]

It's easy to throw out figures when you're not the guy whose butt's on the line if an aging player takes a major slide halfway through a $45 million contract. Just as you're definite Giles would have taken a 3 & 45, I'm definite Trib higher ups would have stopped such a deal dead in it's tracks. That's just a heck of a lot of money for an aging ballplayer.

 

What, I'm not supposed to throw out figures now? This is a message board for cryin' out loud. What are we supposed to talk about?

 

While Giles was my favorite direction this offseason, I didn't say it was the ONLY direction. I would have been fine with a combination of Wilkerson, Bradley, Michaels, Huff, Floyd, etc...

 

Guys who can get on base at a healthy clip. Spread it around if need be. Don't give a guy 15m if you know you can get 3 or 4 guys with "good" OBP's rather than 1 awesome OBP. I really don't care.

 

But, to fill your line up with Neifi Perez, Jacque Jones and Alfonso Soriano, the team is just falling into the same trap they always fall into. Lack of plate discipline and lack of OBP.

 

Throw all you want, while I throw in the reality of the organization we're talking about.

 

I still think they have a shot @ adding Huff, Gonzo or Floyd for LF.

[SAMMYWHO]

You're right Goony in that we need to win now. I'll agree Giles is a way better option than J Jones but I myself and others would argue that at the end of his contract he wouldn't be worth it. No one knows how much he'll regress, nobody knows if he'd even sign a 3 yr deal with the Cubs but I'll also argue with anybody on the topic that unless your a fly on the wall in Mr. Hendry's office you have no idea what it would take to get Giles away from San Diego. If it's the weather or family or whatever the reason he signed with the Padres for so cheap, nobody knows. I'll agree the push for him to sign with the Cubs wasn't Hendry's best effort but who knows why Giles didn't test the market a little more.

 

We do need to win now. If the Cubs went out and won the World Series this year or next year, would we really care if Giles turned into a Luis Gonzalez production wise outfielder for his final year? If it appeared he was going to turn into that type of player, couldn't the Cubs have picked up 5m or so of his final year and shipped him back to San Diego?

 

We don't know if he would have signed with the Cubs. At 13-15m a year for 3 years, I think he would have. No team offered him that much. He signed so quickly with San Diego because if he didn't, he wouldn't have been able to go back if the Padres didn't offer arbitration, which I doubt they would have. They came up with that offer at or near the final days that he could still return to the Padres or wait until May 1. The offers entertained didn't appear to me to be any better than what San Diego finally matched. I don't blame him for staying if the club you are now with in the town you'd prefer to be in is basically offering up the same deals that have been offered elsewhere. Sure, he could have gambled that some team would have coughed up 13m eventually, but since no one had done it yet, why risk not being able to resign with the Padres?

 

Surely, it was a gamble to pay top dollar for Giles considering he'd be 35-37 over the life of the contract. But, Moises Alou didn't completely disappoint (some were more enamored with him than others) over the life of his contract, and he was also 35, 36 and 37 during that contract. Heck, he was even better at age 38 last year.

 

I totally disagree with you about the Padres not offering arbitration. They would be fools not to. I'm not even going to look it up but he's without a doubt a class A free agent. If they didn't sign him they'd at least want a 1st possibly a 2nd round draft pick. I speculate, he has his money and doesn't want to leave his family for half of the season on the road. I wouldn't move my family either from San Diego. Would you? You live there.

As far as Alou is concerned, yes the Cubs gambled and it turned out good, but I could give you a hundred guys that teams gambled on and got burnt.

[CubfaninCA]

I'm definite Trib higher ups would have stopped such a deal dead in it's tracks. That's just a heck of a lot of money for an aging ballplayer.

 

Where were the Trib higher ups when a lot of money was being handed out to a crappy ballplayer? 15m is what they gave a crappy ballplayer just last week.

 

Jones is a classic Cub signing. Essentially, sign a guy hoping he can return to past glory. See Kal Daniels, Maldonaldo, Hundley, Nomar for more. I'm sure one of the elder statesmen Cub fans could come up w/ one heck of a list of such signings.

[cbbryan]

I'm definite Trib higher ups would have stopped such a deal dead in it's tracks. That's just a heck of a lot of money for an aging ballplayer.

 

Where were the Trib higher ups when a lot of money was being handed out to a crappy ballplayer? 15m is what they gave a crappy ballplayer just last week.

 

Jones is a classic Cub signing. Essentially, sign a guy hoping he can return to past glory. See Kal Daniels, Maldonaldo, Hundley, Nomar for more. I'm sure one of the elder statesmen Cub fans could come up w/ one heck of a list of such signings.

 

Howard Johnson anyone?

[CubfaninCA]

I'm definite Trib higher ups would have stopped such a deal dead in it's tracks. That's just a heck of a lot of money for an aging ballplayer.

 

Where were the Trib higher ups when a lot of money was being handed out to a crappy ballplayer? 15m is what they gave a crappy ballplayer just last week.

 

Jones is a classic Cub signing. Essentially, sign a guy hoping he can return to past glory. See Kal Daniels, Maldonaldo, Hundley, Nomar for more. I'm sure one of the elder statesmen Cub fans could come up w/ one heck of a list of such signings.

 

Howard Johnson anyone?

 

LOL. Forgot him. Jeff Blauser..

[RynoRules]

I'm definite Trib higher ups would have stopped such a deal dead in it's tracks. That's just a heck of a lot of money for an aging ballplayer.

 

Where were the Trib higher ups when a lot of money was being handed out to a crappy ballplayer? 15m is what they gave a crappy ballplayer just last week.

 

Jones is a classic Cub signing. Essentially, sign a guy hoping he can return to past glory. See Kal Daniels, Maldonaldo, Hundley, Nomar for more. I'm sure one of the elder statesmen Cub fans could come up w/ one heck of a list of such signings.

 

You rang?:

 

Danny Jackson, Dave Smith, Rick Agulera, Goose Gossage...

 

Kevin Tapani, Willie Wilson, Luis Salazar, Steve Buchele, Mike Morgan...

 

Vance Law, Larry Bowa, Jay Johnstone, Henry Rodriguez, Joe Girardi (second coming)...

 

Anyone else feel exhausted or like they want to: :pukel:

 

EDIT: I'd hate to forget Gaietti, Veres, Guthrie and Remilinger...

[BigbadB]

I totally disagree with you about the Padres not offering arbitration. They would be fools not to. I'm not even going to look it up but he's without a doubt a class A free agent. If they didn't sign him they'd at least want a 1st possibly a 2nd round draft pick. I speculate, he has his money and doesn't want to leave his family for half of the season on the road. I wouldn't move my family either from San Diego. Would you? You live there.

As far as Alou is concerned, yes the Cubs gambled and it turned out good, but I could give you a hundred guys that teams gambled on and got burnt.

 

Do you have any idea what Giles stood to make in arbitration? If the Padres would have offered it, he surely would have accepted and made at least 13m in 2006. I'd venture to guess closer to 15m would be what he would have gotten. San Diego lowballed him big time with their initial offer.

 

That's why I don't think they would have offered it. Even at the salary he signed to stay in SD, the Padres have been dumping salary ever since. They traded Eaton who was about to get a decent jump in arbitration. The traded Loretta for a back up catcher. They let Ramon Hernandez walk. Instead of attempting to get David Wells back, they are looking at cheaper options like Pedro Astacio or Dewon Brazelton.

 

To come to my conclusion that Giles would have made at least 13m, I compare Giles numbers offensively as very close to Abreu, and he makes 15m.

[badger1679666666]

 

Encarnacion is very similar, and quite possibly better since he's younger and coming off a better season in a pitchers park.

 

Come on goony. If we signed Encarnacion and they signed Jockstrap would you be saying that Encarnacion is better than Jones? Something makes me say no.

 

They both suck and neither should be a starting RF for St. Louis or the Cubs. Encarnacion is not better than Jones, Jones is not better than Encarnacion, they are both equally bad.

[badger1679666666]

I totally disagree with you about the Padres not offering arbitration. They would be fools not to. I'm not even going to look it up but he's without a doubt a class A free agent. If they didn't sign him they'd at least want a 1st possibly a 2nd round draft pick. I speculate, he has his money and doesn't want to leave his family for half of the season on the road. I wouldn't move my family either from San Diego. Would you? You live there.

As far as Alou is concerned, yes the Cubs gambled and it turned out good, but I could give you a hundred guys that teams gambled on and got burnt.

 

Do you have any idea what Giles stood to make in arbitration? If the Padres would have offered it, he surely would have accepted and made at least 13m in 2006. I'd venture to guess closer to 15m would be what he would have gotten. San Diego lowballed him big time with their initial offer.

 

That's why I don't think they would have offered it. Even at the salary he signed to stay in SD, the Padres have been dumping salary ever since. They traded Eaton who was about to get a decent jump in arbitration. The traded Loretta for a back up catcher. They let Ramon Hernandez walk. Instead of attempting to get David Wells back, they are looking at cheaper options like Pedro Astacio or Dewon Brazelton.

 

To come to my conclusion that Giles would have made at least 13m, I compare Giles numbers offensively as very close to Abreu, and he makes 15m.

 

To you and all the others who believe we could have had Giles.

 

Why do you think he didn't test the market at all? Because he wanted out of the SoCal area/SD ball club?

 

For a guy who stood to make as significant a raise as you claim, an d for a player who should have been offered 3/45 :shock: (ridiculous IMO) why did he not test the market one bit?

 

Either his agent is an absolute moron, he's an absolute moron, or he really really wanted to stay in SD and even after getting lowballed so badly, he didn't feel like testing the market.

 

It doesn't make ANY sense, unless he absolutely didn't want out of the place he was.

[BigbadB]

To you and all the others who believe we could have had Giles.

 

Why do you think he didn't test the market at all? Because he wanted out of the SoCal area/SD ball club?

 

For a guy who stood to make as significant a raise as you claim, an d for a player who should have been offered 3/45 :shock: (ridiculous IMO) why did he not test the market one bit?

 

Either his agent is an absolute moron, he's an absolute moron, or he really really wanted to stay in SD and even after getting lowballed so badly, he didn't feel like testing the market.

 

It doesn't make ANY sense, unless he absolutely didn't want out of the place he was.

 

We'll probably never really know. So it's not ridiculous to trade for Abreu and the 15m he's owed for the next two years, but it is ridiculous to offer Giles 15m. I don't get it.

 

Giles did test the market. He filed for free agency and didn't sign a contract until just a few days before the arbitration deadline. If he waited until after the deadline, he was at risk of not being able to re-sign with San Diego unless they offered arbitration. Working a deal was probably not likely, since they were only offering 7 or 8m a year with their first offer. San Diego offering arby was not a guarantee either, since they would have lost big time if it went before an arbitrator, and San Diego would have had to known that Giles would probably accept arby rather than sign a 10m a year deal with some other team.

 

I'm guessing. I could be wrong. But, that's all anyone can do here is guess. There were several teams that showed interest and some made offers. NYY, LAD and St. Louis were some of the teams making offers. Toronto made an offer, but considering the different league, different country, I don't know how seriously they were going to be taken by Giles. What it came down to, IMO, is that no team offered up enough cash to inspire Giles to leave. He really got short changed with his last contract considering his production. I'd bet if a competitive team offered up enough, he would have signed. Honestly, there really weren't many teams that could afford to give him what it would have taken to pry him away from San Diego. Until San Diego upped their offer, it didn't appear as though Giles had any intentions of returning. Same can be said of Hoffman.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I'm definite Trib higher ups would have stopped such a deal dead in it's tracks. That's just a heck of a lot of money for an aging ballplayer.

 

Where were the Trib higher ups when a lot of money was being handed out to a crappy ballplayer? 15m is what they gave a crappy ballplayer just last week.

 

Jones is a classic Cub signing. Essentially, sign a guy hoping he can return to past glory. See Kal Daniels, Maldonaldo, Hundley, Nomar for more. I'm sure one of the elder statesmen Cub fans could come up w/ one heck of a list of such signings.

 

You rang?:

 

Danny Jackson, Dave Smith, Rick Agulera, Goose Gossage...

 

Kevin Tapani, Willie Wilson, Luis Salazar, Steve Buchele, Mike Morgan...

 

Vance Law, Larry Bowa, Jay Johnstone, Henry Rodriguez, Joe Girardi (second coming)...

 

Anyone else feel exhausted or like they want to: :pukel:

 

EDIT: I'd hate to forget Gaietti, Veres, Guthrie and Remilinger...

 

This exercise could get really exhaustive. My list only covers about 25 years.......

 

Al Dark

Bobby Thompson

Lee Walls

Ed Bouchee

Frank Thomas

Richie Ashburn

Don Zimmer

Grady Hatton

Andre Rodgers

Alex Grammas

Bob Buhl

Larry Jackson

Joey Amalfitano

Lew Burdette

Ernie Broglio

Bobby Shantz

Ed Bailey

Harvey Kuehn

Ted Abernathy

Bob Hendley

Billy Hoeft

Frank Baumann

Lee Thomas

Marty Keough

Wes Covington

Curt Simmons

Robin Roberts

Chuck Estrada

Don Lee

Ted Savage

Al Spangler

Ray Culp

Dick Radatz

Don Larsen

Lou Johnson

Jim Hickman

Gene Oliver

Phil Regan

Jack Lamabe

Bobby Tiefenauer

Dick Selma

Hank Aguirre

Ken Johnson

Don Nottebart

Johnny Callison

Joe Pepitone

Jack Hiatt

J C Martin

Tommy Davis

Milt Pappas

Juan Pizzaro

Bob Miller

Steve Barber

Hoyt Wilhelm

Art Shamsky

Jose Cardenal

Tom Phoebus

Jack Aker

Steve Hamilton

Rico Carty

Tony LaRussa

Bob Locker

Jerry Morales

George Mitterwald

Bill Grabarkewitz

Darold Knowles

Larry Biitner

Randy Hundley

Steve Renko

Bill Buckner

Bobby Murcer

Dave Roberts

Dave Giusti

Dave Rader

Dave Kingman

Davey Johnson

Woodie Fryman

Ken Holtzman

Barry Foote

Ted Sizemore

Ken Henderson

Dick Tidrow

Lenny Randle

Cliff Johnson

Ken Reitz

Bobby Bonds

Mike Lum

Doug Bird

Ken Kravec

Rawley Eastwick

Bump Wills

Larry Bowa

Steve Henderson

Jay Johnstone

Junior Kennedy

Fergie Jenkins

[cubfanfromoz]

It appears that, indeed, Brian Giles did want to stay in San Diego. From SFGate.com

 

"As one of the top outfielders on the free-agent market, Giles attracted strong interest from the New York Yankees, Toronto, Cleveland — where he broke into the majors in 1995 — and the rival Los Angeles Dodgers. The Dodgers are thought to have offered $34.5 million for three seasons.

 

 

"Obviously, there were other deals out there," said Giles, the most consistent offensive player for a team that won the NL West with only 82 wins. "But I wanted to make a deal here."

 

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/12/01/sports/s134323S39.DTL[/code]

[BigbadB]

It appears that, indeed, Brian Giles did want to stay in San Diego. From SFGate.com

 

"As one of the top outfielders on the free-agent market, Giles attracted strong interest from the New York Yankees, Toronto, Cleveland — where he broke into the majors in 1995 — and the rival Los Angeles Dodgers. The Dodgers are thought to have offered $34.5 million for three seasons.

 

 

"Obviously, there were other deals out there," said Giles, the most consistent offensive player for a team that won the NL West with only 82 wins. "But I wanted to make a deal here."

 

That doesn't sway my opinion at all. Call me stubborn. That reads to me your generic form letter "I'm at the place I always wanted to be".

 

You know you aren't going to read "I wanted to play elsewhere for a bunch more money, but nobody offered as much as I was hoping for".

[CardsFanInChiTown]

It appears that, indeed, Brian Giles did want to stay in San Diego. From SFGate.com

 

"As one of the top outfielders on the free-agent market, Giles attracted strong interest from the New York Yankees, Toronto, Cleveland — where he broke into the majors in 1995 — and the rival Los Angeles Dodgers. The Dodgers are thought to have offered $34.5 million for three seasons.

 

 

"Obviously, there were other deals out there," said Giles, the most consistent offensive player for a team that won the NL West with only 82 wins. "But I wanted to make a deal here."

 

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/12/01/sports/s134323S39.DTL[/code]

 

Welcome, nice first post!

 

I think Giles was going to sign with SD pretty much no matter what. I read the Blue Jays offered 4 yrs.

[CubfaninCA]

It appears that, indeed, Brian Giles did want to stay in San Diego. From SFGate.com

 

"As one of the top outfielders on the free-agent market, Giles attracted strong interest from the New York Yankees, Toronto, Cleveland — where he broke into the majors in 1995 — and the rival Los Angeles Dodgers. The Dodgers are thought to have offered $34.5 million for three seasons.

 

 

"Obviously, there were other deals out there," said Giles, the most consistent offensive player for a team that won the NL West with only 82 wins. "But I wanted to make a deal here."

 

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/12/01/sports/s134323S39.DTL[/code]

 

Way to leadoff w/ a home run first post.

[badger1679666666]

It appears that, indeed, Brian Giles did want to stay in San Diego. From SFGate.com

 

"As one of the top outfielders on the free-agent market, Giles attracted strong interest from the New York Yankees, Toronto, Cleveland — where he broke into the majors in 1995 — and the rival Los Angeles Dodgers. The Dodgers are thought to have offered $34.5 million for three seasons.

 

 

"Obviously, there were other deals out there," said Giles, the most consistent offensive player for a team that won the NL West with only 82 wins. "But I wanted to make a deal here."

 

That doesn't sway my opinion at all. Call me stubborn. That reads to me your generic form letter "I'm at the place I always wanted to be".

 

You know you aren't going to read "I wanted to play elsewhere for a bunch more money, but nobody offered as much as I was hoping for".

 

But people (LA, Toronto) DID offer more, and he stayed. I thought he's always said he likes the Left Coast too. So with everything combined (not just that one cliche line which I agree with you - could sound like "yes I always wanted to stay here) it appears he strongly wanted to remain where he was. San Diego is an AWESOME town BTW, it's not hard for me to understand why someone wouldn't want to move from there.

 

At the very least - he didn't appear to be testing the FA market in the same way Furcal did. That's my only point I guess.

 

I think I'm done with any Giles discussions. I believe he was never leaving SD unless the 7 million was their only offer, and others believe the Cubs should have thrown 3/45 at him.

 

This however does NOT excuse hendry, because as I said earlier, there were SO MANY better options than Jockstrap.

[Sarcastic]

It appears that, indeed, Brian Giles did want to stay in San Diego. From SFGate.com

 

"As one of the top outfielders on the free-agent market, Giles attracted strong interest from the New York Yankees, Toronto, Cleveland — where he broke into the majors in 1995 — and the rival Los Angeles Dodgers. The Dodgers are thought to have offered $34.5 million for three seasons.

 

 

"Obviously, there were other deals out there," said Giles, the most consistent offensive player for a team that won the NL West with only 82 wins. "But I wanted to make a deal here."

 

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/12/01/sports/s134323S39.DTL[/code]

 

Way to leadoff w/ a home run first post.

 

But he should have taken more pitches first. :lol: