Finish The Offseason (What would you do if you were GM?)

Wheelimus · November 22, 2005

Thought it might be fun to just compile all of our various "here's what I'd do" trade and sign ideas.

I'm going to just assume that Howry is signed, and start from there.

1) 3 team trade between Dodgers, Marlins, and Cubs.

Cubs get: Milton Bradley and Luis Castillo

Dodgers get: Juan Pierre

Marlins get: Todd Walker, Glendon Rusch, Jerry Hairston Jr., pithing prospect from Cubs.

The Marlins continue their fire sale, saving $10 million minimum. They get Walker to replace Castillo, Rusch to add to their rotation, and Hairston Jr. to plug into center, all costing them no more than $6 million.

The Dodgers give away Bradley like they wanted, and get Juan Pierre to replace him.

The Cubs give up Walker who they've wanted to get rid of anyway, Rusch who becomes redundent with Eyre (I still hold it's stupid to trade Jerome Williams or put him in the pen, and if Rusch doesn't start, what on earth do we need him for?), and Hairston who they don't seem to care much about anyway.

2) Sign Rafeal Furcal, give him 5/50 if you have too, but try to tie that last year as a vesting option based on games played over several years.

3) Sign Kevin Millwood, most likely 3/30, if that doesn't do it, find a comparable pitcher.

4) Trade Rich Hill, Sergio Mitre, Roberto Nova, and whatever else prospect wise (not including Felix Pie) you need, to the Cincinnati Reds for Adam Dunn. I send money too if I have to. Whatever it takes to get Adam Dunn. Even throw him Jose Macias! He's not in my plans :lol:

5) fill out your bench with the best players you can find. I start with Tony Graffanino if he doesn't catch on as a starter (lets say 2 years, 4 million). Since I haven't traded him, Corey Patterson can be our impact bat off the bench (guessing he'll make around $3 million next year) and spell all the outfield spots. Maybe Doug Mientkiewicz too if he's willing to take a paycut after a down year (1 year, $1.5 million). And since I didn't get him into my lineup, Ronny Cedeno will be on my bench.

Alright, I suppose this would be my team next year

1B - Derrek Lee - $8

2B - Luis Castillo - $5

3B - Aramis Ramirez - $10.5

SS - Rafeal Furcal - $10

RF - Adam Dunn - $7 (i may be off here)

CF - Milton Bradley - $4

LF - Matt Murton - $0.3

C - Michael Barrett - $4

INF - Neifi Perez - $2.5

INF - Ronny Cedeno - $0.3

OF - Tony Graffanino - $2

OF - Corey Patterson - $3

1B - Doug Mientkiewicz - $1.5

SP - Carlos Zambrano - $6

SP - Mark Prior - $2

SP - Kerry Wood - $11

SP - Kevin Millwood - $10

SP - Greg Maddux - $9

C - Ryan Dempster - $4

R - Bob Howry - $4

R - Scott Eyre - $2.7

R - Scott Williamson - $2

R - Will Ohman - $0.3

R - Roberto Nova - $0.3

R/SP - Jerome Williams - $0.3

Would put payroll next year at around $110 million, but I may be off on some of my figures.

Anyway, that's what I'd do :D

JeffH · November 22, 2005

Assume Bobby Howry is already signed.

Sign Rafael Furcal.

Sign Brian Giles.

Trade for Juan Pierre.

Trade for Dave Roberts.

Sign Mark Sweeney.

Sign Wes Helms.

Trade Todd Walker for Aaron Heilman.

$105.

fromthestretch · November 22, 2005

Assume Bobby Howry is already signed.

Sign Rafael Furcal.

Sign Brian Giles.

Trade for Juan Pierre.

Trade for Dave Roberts.

Sign Mark Sweeney.

Sign Wes Helms.

Trade Todd Walker for Aaron Heilman.

$105.

What would be the point of having Dave Roberts when you have Pierre? Seems a bit redundant. Besides, it sounds like the Padres are putting him in LF. Considering how much they gave up to get him and the fact that they are planning on having him start in LF, I would think the asking price would be a bit high. Not worth it for what would be a fourth outfielder if the Cubs were somehow able to get both Pierre and Giles.

noisesquared · November 22, 2005

Question: Are Howry and Eyre Type 1 (I think that's the terminology :? ) FA's? Or in laymans terms, does signing the both of them prevent the Cubs from adding more than 1 additional top end FA?

JeffH · November 22, 2005

Both Eyre and Howry are "Type A" free agents.

No, signing them both would not preclude the Cubs from signing another top end guy.

LuvChicagoSports · November 22, 2005

Thought it might be fun to just compile all of our various "here's what I'd do" trade and sign ideas.

I'm going to just assume that Howry is signed, and start from there.

1) 3 team trade between Dodgers, Marlins, and Cubs.

Cubs get: Milton Bradley and Luis Castillo
Dodgers get: Juan Pierre
Marlins get: Todd Walker, Glendon Rusch, Jerry Hairston Jr., pithing prospect from Cubs.

The Marlins continue their fire sale, saving $10 million minimum. They get Walker to replace Castillo, Rusch to add to their rotation, and Hairston Jr. to plug into center, all costing them no more than $6 million.

The Dodgers give away Bradley like they wanted, and get Juan Pierre to replace him.

The Cubs give up Walker who they've wanted to get rid of anyway, Rusch who becomes redundent with Eyre (I still hold it's stupid to trade Jerome Williams or put him in the pen, and if Rusch doesn't start, what on earth do we need him for?), and Hairston who they don't seem to care much about anyway.

2) Sign Rafeal Furcal, give him 5/50 if you have too, but try to tie that last year as a vesting option based on games played over several years.

3) Sign Kevin Millwood, most likely 3/30, if that doesn't do it, find a comparable pitcher.

4) Trade Rich Hill, Sergio Mitre, Roberto Nova, and whatever else prospect wise (not including Felix Pie) you need, to the Cincinnati Reds for Adam Dunn. I send money too if I have to. Whatever it takes to get Adam Dunn. Even throw him Jose Macias! He's not in my plans :lol:

5) fill out your bench with the best players you can find. I start with Tony Graffanino if he doesn't catch on as a starter (lets say 2 years, 4 million). Since I haven't traded him, Corey Patterson can be our impact bat off the bench (guessing he'll make around $3 million next year) and spell all the outfield spots. Maybe Doug Mientkiewicz too if he's willing to take a paycut after a down year (1 year, $1.5 million). And since I didn't get him into my lineup, Ronny Cedeno will be on my bench.

Alright, I suppose this would be my team next year

1B - Derrek Lee - $8
2B - Luis Castillo - $5
3B - Aramis Ramirez - $10.5
SS - Rafeal Furcal - $10
RF - Adam Dunn - $7 (i may be off here)
CF - Milton Bradley - $4
LF - Matt Murton - $0.3
C - Michael Barrett - $4

INF - Neifi Perez - $2.5
INF - Ronny Cedeno - $0.3
OF - Tony Graffanino - $2
OF - Corey Patterson - $3
1B - Doug Mientkiewicz - $1.5

SP - Carlos Zambrano - $6
SP - Mark Prior - $2
SP - Kerry Wood - $11
SP - Kevin Millwood - $10
SP - Greg Maddux - $9

C - Ryan Dempster - $4
R - Bob Howry - $4
R - Scott Eyre - $2.7
R - Scott Williamson - $2
R - Will Ohman - $0.3
R - Roberto Nova - $0.3
R/SP - Jerome Williams - $0.3

Would put payroll next year at around $110 million, but I may be off on some of my figures.

Anyway, that's what I'd do :D

I would absolutely love it, but this seems a bit of a pipe dream. C'mon Hill, Mitre, Novoa, and prospects not including Pie for Dunn?

Other than that, I could actually see it happening, although I don't think anyone is going to trade for Bradley, because he will be made a free agent soon. He basically has to be given away for any team to even think about taking him.

noisesquared · November 22, 2005

Both Eyre and Howry are "Type A" free agents.

No, signing them both would not preclude the Cubs from signing another top end guy.

But it would proclude the Cubs from signing 2 more big name FA's, right? If Howry is signed, then it's Furcal or Giles or Millwood, not a combination of 2 of 'em. That seems like a questionable way to use 2 of your 3 impact free-agent signings.

JeffH · November 22, 2005

But it would proclude the Cubs from signing 2 more big name FA's, right?

It's unclear, I don't believe that's correct. From the MLB CBA:

Clubs shall be limited in the number of Type A and B Players,

as defined below, they may subsequently sign to contracts. The

number of signings permitted shall be related to the number of Players

electing free agency under this Section B. If there are 14 or less

such Players, no Club may sign more than one Type A or B Player.

If there are from 15 to 38 such Players, no Club may sign more than

two Type A or B Players. If there are from 39 to 62 such Players, no

Club may sign more than three Type A or B Players. If there are

more than 62 such Players, the Club quotas shall be increased

accordingly. There shall be no restrictions on the number of

unranked Players which a Club may sign to contracts.

This offseason, there are 85 "such Players". I'd have to assume that that would increase the quota to more than 3.

MeatampPotatoesMan · November 22, 2005

Since we're going hypothetical here, I'm assuming Dunn is available...

trade for Dunn

trade for Marcus Giles (after Atlanta re-signs Furcal for big $)

trade for Pierre (realizing he is a rental and a placeholder for Pie)

trade/pilage/kill for another #3 or better SP

lineup:

CF Pierre

2B Giles

1B Lee

RF Dunn

3B Ramirez

C Barrett

LF Murton

SS Cedeno

SouthSideRyan · November 22, 2005

Can I pull a Superman and reverse the direction of the Earth so as to go back in time, thus undoing the Neifi, Rusch, and Eyre contracts?

ManCrushOnNomar · November 22, 2005

No more Dunn trades. My bet still stands.

While we're talking crazy let's trade for Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols.

don_kessinger_was_good · November 22, 2005

With Howry completing the bullpen, I would next:

1. Try to trade for one of Coco Crisp, Juan Pierre, Luis Castillo, or Milton Bradley.

2. Try to put together a blockbuster for Bobby Abreu or Adam Dunn. Failing that, pursue the trades for someone like Kevin Mench, Austin Kearns or Aubrey Huff.

3. Ya simply gotta sign Rafael Furcal, I think.

4. Need two bench outfielders, one of whom can play some 1B (assuming Todd Walker is traded).

Diffusion · November 22, 2005

1) 3 team trade between Dodgers, Marlins, and Cubs.

Cubs get: Milton Bradley and Luis Castillo
Dodgers get: Juan Pierre
Marlins get: Todd Walker, Glendon Rusch, Jerry Hairston Jr., pithing prospect from Cubs.

Todd Walker and the Cubs pitching prospect (maybe Mitre, the Marlins are reportedly fans) should be enough to get a deal done with the Marlins for just Luis Castillo, given that they'd be saving $3.56m in the deal, getting a replacement for Castillo and a rotation option that they actually really need (right now their rotation reads Willis, Vargas, Olsen.......). We could also eat some Walker contract if necessary, thus saving the Marlins more money.

If the Dodgers can't work out a trade for Milton Bradley, they'll almost certainly non-tender him. In other words, there's no way that they're going to get Juan Pierre in exchange for just Milton Bradley. In fact, they'll be lucky to get anything given that no-one's interested in Bradley at all.

So it'd be best to simply orchestrate two trades separately. Send maybe Wellemeyer to the Dodgers, then Walker and Mitre to the Marlins, and you end up with the exact same haul but get to keep Rusch and Hairston for later trades (hopefully) while losing just players you no longer really need.

Incidentally, the Cubs should try and market Hairston as a second baseman, I think. There he's actually about average. He's a superb bench player, but they're not very marketable. But as a starting outfielder, he's next to useless, without the glove to play any of the three outfield positions, particularly CF, and without the bat to play the corners. Sell him as a 2B, though, and I think they could get a decent return. Possible teams in the market for a 2B include the Cardinals, Mariners, Mets, Pirates, Rangers, Red Sox, Rockies, Royals and Twins.

Tim · November 22, 2005

Can anyone guess what my first move would be based on what I've been saying for around 3 months now?

1 - Sign Brian Giles

2 - Sign Brian Giles

3 - Sign Brian Giles

Okay, now that I'm past that....

4 - Sign Furcal. I've come around to this position based on the defensive difference between he and Nomar and the likelihood of playing 140+ games.

5 - Send a PTBNL to the Dodgers for Bradley. He can at least keep CF warm for Pie until Milton has an "episode".

6 - Trade excess arms for some PTBNL's. It is impossible to get return for Wellemeyer, Mitre, etc. at this point because everyone knows they won't make the squad and have to go through waivers. But you might as well remove them from the 40 man roster at this point.

7 - Keep Corey, use him as the 4th OF and hope that he reestablishes some value before the trade deadline. If an opportunity to really improve the team comes up, I'd move him at this point. But I wouldn't trade him just to trade him. The Cubs have money, I'll pay the $2.5M to see if he can turn things around. There's more hope there than there is with Neifi, after all. If nothing else, he allows me to put a quality CF out there if Bradley goes down/implodes.

8 - Dump Macias

9 - Since I'm giving up so many of my high draft picks by signing relievers, I invest heavily in Latin American signings this offseason and try to nab a couple of the bigger names down there.

10 - I fly down personally to visit with Aramis periodically this offseason to see how his conditioning programs is going

11 - I seriously explore trade options with Arizona to see if I can get Vazquez and Quentin/Tracy if I take on Javier's full salary. I'd use one of Williams, Corey, Walker, Hairston & minor league pitching as the bait.

I'm sure there's more, but I've run out of time. ;)

Barrett

Lee

Walker

Ramirez

Furcal

Murton/Quentin/Tracy

Bradley

Giles

Prior

Z

Wood

Vazquez

Maddux

Blanco

Hairston

Patterson

Cedeno

Neifi

Murton/Quentin/Tracy

Dempster

Howry (assuming this is a fait accompli)

Eyre

Williamson

Ohman

Wuertz

Rusch

Backtobanks · November 22, 2005

Thought it might be fun to just compile all of our various "here's what I'd do" trade and sign ideas.

I'm going to just assume that Howry is signed, and start from there.

1) 3 team trade between Dodgers, Marlins, and Cubs.

Cubs get: Milton Bradley and Luis Castillo
Dodgers get: Juan Pierre
Marlins get: Todd Walker, Glendon Rusch, Jerry Hairston Jr., pithing prospect from Cubs.

The Marlins continue their fire sale, saving $10 million minimum. They get Walker to replace Castillo, Rusch to add to their rotation, and Hairston Jr. to plug into center, all costing them no more than $6 million.

The Dodgers give away Bradley like they wanted, and get Juan Pierre to replace him.

The Cubs give up Walker who they've wanted to get rid of anyway, Rusch who becomes redundent with Eyre (I still hold it's stupid to trade Jerome Williams or put him in the pen, and if Rusch doesn't start, what on earth do we need him for?), and Hairston who they don't seem to care much about anyway.

2) Sign Rafeal Furcal, give him 5/50 if you have too, but try to tie that last year as a vesting option based on games played over several years.

3) Sign Kevin Millwood, most likely 3/30, if that doesn't do it, find a comparable pitcher.

4) Trade Rich Hill, Sergio Mitre, Roberto Nova, and whatever else prospect wise (not including Felix Pie) you need, to the Cincinnati Reds for Adam Dunn. I send money too if I have to. Whatever it takes to get Adam Dunn. Even throw him Jose Macias! He's not in my plans :lol:

5) fill out your bench with the best players you can find. I start with Tony Graffanino if he doesn't catch on as a starter (lets say 2 years, 4 million). Since I haven't traded him, Corey Patterson can be our impact bat off the bench (guessing he'll make around $3 million next year) and spell all the outfield spots. Maybe Doug Mientkiewicz too if he's willing to take a paycut after a down year (1 year, $1.5 million). And since I didn't get him into my lineup, Ronny Cedeno will be on my bench.

Alright, I suppose this would be my team next year

1B - Derrek Lee - $8
2B - Luis Castillo - $5
3B - Aramis Ramirez - $10.5
SS - Rafeal Furcal - $10
RF - Adam Dunn - $7 (i may be off here)
CF - Milton Bradley - $4
LF - Matt Murton - $0.3
C - Michael Barrett - $4

INF - Neifi Perez - $2.5
INF - Ronny Cedeno - $0.3
OF - Tony Graffanino - $2
OF - Corey Patterson - $3
1B - Doug Mientkiewicz - $1.5

SP - Carlos Zambrano - $6
SP - Mark Prior - $2
SP - Kerry Wood - $11
SP - Kevin Millwood - $10
SP - Greg Maddux - $9

C - Ryan Dempster - $4
R - Bob Howry - $4
R - Scott Eyre - $2.7
R - Scott Williamson - $2
R - Will Ohman - $0.3
R - Roberto Nova - $0.3
R/SP - Jerome Williams - $0.3

Would put payroll next year at around $110 million, but I may be off on some of my figures.

Anyway, that's what I'd do :D

I think your payroll would be much higher than $110 million. Also, you don't have Henry Blanco or a substitute catcher.

gflore34 · November 22, 2005

1. Orchestrate a trade with the Marlins for Pierre and Castillo, Patterson, Walker and a pitching prospect ought to be enough.

2. Sign Brain Giles

3. Sign Kevin Millwood or AJ Burnett

vance_the_cubs_fan · November 23, 2005

I'm going to try to keep this as realistic as I can.

I'd trade for Bradley. Player cost shouldn't be that high.

I'd sign Furcal.

I'd attempt to trade for Castillo.

I'd sign Juan Encarnacion.

Furcal SS

Castillo 2b

Lee 1b

Ramirez 3b

Bradley Cf

Encarnacion rf

Murton lf

Barrett C

treebird · November 23, 2005

I'm going to try to keep this as realistic as I can.

I'd trade for Bradley. Player cost shouldn't be that high.
I'd sign Furcal.
I'd attempt to trade for Castillo.
I'd sign Juan Encarnacion.

Furcal SS
Castillo 2b
Lee 1b
Ramirez 3b
Bradley Cf
Encarnacion rf
Murton lf
Barrett C

I don't think suggesting that Hendry is going to consider trading for Games is very realistic at all.

CoolHandLuke · November 23, 2005

I sign Furcal

Trade for Dunn

Trade for Vazquez and Quentin

Trade for Bradley

Lineup

Furcal

Walker

Lee

Dunn

Ramirez

Bradley

Quentin

Barrett

Rotation

Zambrano

Prior

Wood

Vazquez

Williams

Bullpen

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Novoa

Rusch

someone

edit- I know I didnt explain who i am trading but that is because I dont really feel like thinking about it.

nilodnayr · November 23, 2005

I'll assume Howry is signed. So the pen is set.

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

Wuertz

Ohman

Rusch

I'll trade Patterson, Walker, Welly for Bradley and Lowe.

I'll trade Williams, Mitre, and Adam Greenberg for Luis Castillo

I'll trade Rich Hill, Brandon Sing, Renyel Pinto, and JHJR for Dunn and Freel

I'll non-tender Macias

I'll sign Mark Sweeney

I'll sign the best RH back up corner outfield power hitter available (Hidalgo?)

My starting lineup is:

Castillo

Bradley

Lee

Dunn

ARAM

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

Rotation:

Z

Prior

Wood

Lowe

Maddux

My bench is:

Sweeney

Freel

Neifi

Blanco

Hidalgo

This is assuming a 105M salary

The only issue is in all 3 trades the other team has to take on an additional man to their 40 man roster

EDIT: I'd be more than happy scrapping the Dunn/Freel deal and just signing Giles. I'd also rather throw in another good pitching prospect and getting M. Giles rather than Castillo.

Edited November 23, 2005 by nilodnayr

nilodnayr · November 23, 2005

But it would proclude the Cubs from signing 2 more big name FA's, right?

It's unclear, I don't believe that's correct. From the MLB CBA:

Clubs shall be limited in the number of Type A and B Players,
as defined below, they may subsequently sign to contracts. The
number of signings permitted shall be related to the number of Players
electing free agency under this Section B. If there are 14 or less
such Players, no Club may sign more than one Type A or B Player.
If there are from 15 to 38 such Players, no Club may sign more than
two Type A or B Players. If there are from 39 to 62 such Players, no
Club may sign more than three Type A or B Players. If there are
more than 62 such Players, the Club quotas shall be increased
accordingly. There shall be no restrictions on the number of
unranked Players which a Club may sign to contracts.

This offseason, there are 85 "such Players". I'd have to assume that that would increase the quota to more than 3.

I believe with 85 type A FAs a club may sign 3 type A FAs regardless of how many they lose. If then "the club quotas shall be increased accordingly", meaning if a club loses 4 type A FAs they may sign 4 type A FAs and so on. As I do not believe the cubs are losing 4 type A FAs, we are limited to signing 3, 2 of which have been used, so we may only sign 1 more.

nilodnayr · November 23, 2005

11 - I seriously explore trade options with Arizona to see if I can get Vazquez and Quentin/Tracy if I take on Javier's full salary. I'd use one of Williams, Corey, Walker, Hairston & minor league pitching as the bait.

If the Dbacks dont trade him then Vazquez can elect to become a free agent so they lose him and get no one in return, but also dont have to pay him. If I'm the Dbacks I am thinking, worst case scenario he elects for free agency and I save a bunch of money. That thinking translates to the trade, meaning that basically they can think of a Vazquez and Quentin/Tracy for Williams or Corey or Walker or Hairston and minor league pitcher as just Quentin/Tracy for one of those and a minor league pitcher. And theres no way the Dbacks will make a trade like that.

JeffH · November 23, 2005

I believe with 85 type A FAs a club may sign 3 type A FAs regardless of how many they lose. If then "the club quotas shall be increased accordingly", meaning if a club loses 4 type A FAs they may sign 4 type A FAs and so on. As I do not believe the cubs are losing 4 type A FAs, we are limited to signing 3, 2 of which have been used, so we may only sign 1 more.

I believe this is not true. I can be convinced otherwise, if you have documentation.

However, the paragraph of the CBA which follows this one specifically discusses the "you may sign as many A/B free agents as you lose" rule.

Irrespective of the provisions of subparagraph (a) above, a

Club shall be eligible to sign at least as many Type A and B Players

as it may have lost through Players having become free agents under

this Section at the close of the season just concluded.

I believe the quota clause is something different.

biittner77 · November 23, 2005

Isn't anybody going to fire Dusty Baker or is that a given?

nilodnayr · November 23, 2005

I believe with 85 type A FAs a club may sign 3 type A FAs regardless of how many they lose. If then "the club quotas shall be increased accordingly", meaning if a club loses 4 type A FAs they may sign 4 type A FAs and so on. As I do not believe the cubs are losing 4 type A FAs, we are limited to signing 3, 2 of which have been used, so we may only sign 1 more.

I believe this is not true. I can be convinced otherwise, if you have documentation.

However, the paragraph of the CBA which follows this one specifically discusses the "you may sign as many A/B free agents as you lose" rule.

Irrespective of the provisions of subparagraph (a) above, a
Club shall be eligible to sign at least as many Type A and B Players
as it may have lost through Players having become free agents under
this Section at the close of the season just concluded.

I believe the quota clause is something different.

Ok if thats a separate clause then "the club quotas shall be increased accordingly" means to me the following:

0-14 Type A/B=no more than 1 per club

15-38 Type A/B=no more than 2 per club

39-62 Type A/B=no more than 3 per club

ASSUMING...

63-86 Type A/B=no more than 4 per club

87-110 Type A/B=mo more than 5 per club

Finish The Offseason (What would you do if you were GM?)

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