Howry signs with Cubs (yes, it's official)

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I actually gave you more room to prove your point by pointing out another possibility for Howry/Eyre to not be paid over market value. I was trying to say that there isn't concrete info either way, so dismissing someone's argument b/c it is "speculative" isn't valid in this case.

 

There is concrete evidence of their market value - it's what Hendery just paid them.

 

That would be true if it was an efficient market, which it is not.

 

How do I know it isn't efficient? If it was, records would directly reflect payroll.

 

 

A contract’s value changes over its lifetime due to player performance and market conditions. As more information (i.e. player performance and market changes) emerges the contract value adjusts accordingly. Meaning what Hendry paid for Howry/Eyre is their current value. I’m not saying the market is completely efficient but it’s prolly more so then you think.

 

I agree with the bolded part of your statement, but that doesn't imply that Hendry paid howry/eyre their current market value. To pay howry/eyre at their current value, their value would have to be accurately assessed (a subjective process based on incomplete market information), which is characteristic problem when dealing with non-unique commodities. Incomplete market information and subjective value analysis is what leads to overpaying.

 

If the market was efficient, OBP wouldn't have been a cheap commodity several years ago. Beane wouldn't have been able to field a playoff team with $40M. All he did was exploit a market inefficiency. The OBP market has become more efficient, but Beane still fields a winning team with a smaller budget than the other teams in his division. That means there must be many such market inefficiencies out there besides OBP.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I actually gave you more room to prove your point by pointing out another possibility for Howry/Eyre to not be paid over market value. I was trying to say that there isn't concrete info either way, so dismissing someone's argument b/c it is "speculative" isn't valid in this case.

 

There is concrete evidence of their market value - it's what Hendery just paid them.

 

That would be true if it was an efficient market, which it is not.

 

How do I know it isn't efficient? If it was, records would directly reflect payroll.

 

 

A contract’s value changes over its lifetime due to player performance and market conditions. As more information (i.e. player performance and market changes) emerges the contract value adjusts accordingly. Meaning what Hendry paid for Howry/Eyre is their current value. I’m not saying the market is completely efficient but it’s prolly more so then you think.

 

Doesn't that assume perfect competency on every GM's part? Is Cristian Guzman's contract his current value?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I actually gave you more room to prove your point by pointing out another possibility for Howry/Eyre to not be paid over market value. I was trying to say that there isn't concrete info either way, so dismissing someone's argument b/c it is "speculative" isn't valid in this case.

 

There is concrete evidence of their market value - it's what Hendery just paid them.

 

That would be true if it was an efficient market, which it is not.

 

How do I know it isn't efficient? If it was, records would directly reflect payroll.

 

 

A contract’s value changes over its lifetime due to player performance and market conditions. As more information (i.e. player performance and market changes) emerges the contract value adjusts accordingly. Meaning what Hendry paid for Howry/Eyre is their current value. I’m not saying the market is completely efficient but it’s prolly more so then you think.

 

Doesn't that assume perfect competency on every GM's part? Is Cristian Guzman's contract his current value?

 

I think his argument is that Guzman's contract was his value at the time he signed it, not at a latter date. *not trying to argue for him, but that was my understanding of it.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I actually gave you more room to prove your point by pointing out another possibility for Howry/Eyre to not be paid over market value. I was trying to say that there isn't concrete info either way, so dismissing someone's argument b/c it is "speculative" isn't valid in this case.

 

There is concrete evidence of their market value - it's what Hendery just paid them.

 

That would be true if it was an efficient market, which it is not.

 

How do I know it isn't efficient? If it was, records would directly reflect payroll.

 

 

A contract’s value changes over its lifetime due to player performance and market conditions. As more information (i.e. player performance and market changes) emerges the contract value adjusts accordingly. Meaning what Hendry paid for Howry/Eyre is their current value. I’m not saying the market is completely efficient but it’s prolly more so then you think.

 

Doesn't that assume perfect competency on every GM's part? Is Cristian Guzman's contract his current value?

 

It assumes whatever the market decides to value certain skills. So yes when he signed it that was his market value.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

A contract’s value changes over its lifetime due to player performance and market conditions. As more information (i.e. player performance and market changes) emerges the contract value adjusts accordingly. Meaning what Hendry paid for Howry/Eyre is their current value. I’m not saying the market is completely efficient but it’s prolly more so then you think.

 

Doesn't that assume perfect competency on every GM's part? Is Cristian Guzman's contract his current value?

 

I think his argument is that Guzman's contract was his value at the time he signed it, not at a latter date. *not trying to argue for him, but that was my understanding of it.

 

Either way the logic applies, Guzman wasn't worth the contract he got when he signed it, last year just proved it to the nth degree.

[Diffusion]

I'm glad Hendry is upgrading a weakness, I wish he wouldn't overspend to do it.

 

It's easy to say that, but can you come up with the alternative to Eyre/Howry production via trade or other FA signing?

 

How do you know that wasn't market value for Eyre/Howry?

 

The fact that they've already signed, it not even being December, hints at as much.

 

You statement sounds very speculative to me.

 

Do you have first hand knowledge that neither Eyre or Howry have negotiated/talks with other teams?

 

Do you have first hand knowledge that Eyre and Howry had talks/negotiated contracts with other teams?

 

Of course it's "very speculative". Find me something around these parts that isn't.

 

Anyway, there's been very speculative speculation from people that may have first hand knowledge, or may not, that Eyre never got to the stage of discussing the zeroes with any of the other three members of the final four teams that he narrowed it down to. And, personally, I don't believe that Eyre came to Chicago just because he really loves Dusty Baker's laissez-faire approach to clubhouse management. For me at least, both hint at Eyre being given an offer above and beyond what he was hoping for (recall that Eyre was reported to be looking for $9m/3yrs), an offer that he didn't think was going to be topped, and an offer that he was scared might be withdrawn if he didn't jump on it. So he did.

 

And you don't think that if Howry's deal was anywhere near market value, these last few days a good number of teams would have been trying to convince him to change his mind? And you don't think that if there were a number of teams trying to convince him to change his mind, his agent would have gone public with such information, in an effort to further increase his market value? Again, something doesn't really add up. It just looks too much as though Howry's been given an offer he can't refuse, which would tally with the actual offer he has been given, he's realised he's not going to do any better than what he's got on the table, he's realised it's not worth him drawing anything out to try and get more, and he's jumping on it before the Cubs come to their senses. That's what happens when a guy that two years ago had to settle for a minor league deal gets eight figures waved in front of him.

 

Let's look at the free-agent non-closer relief-pitcher signings from 2004-05:

 

Terry Adams, $500k/1yr

Antonio Alfonseca, $300k/1yr plus team option

Wilson Alvarez, $4m/2yrs

Ricky Bottalico, $800k/1yr

Doug Brocail, $1m/1yr

Jim Brower, $310k/1yr

Jason Christiansen, $1m/1yr plus team option

Rheal Cormier, $5.25m/2yrs

Elmer Dessens, $1.3m/1yr plus team option

Koo Dae-Sung, $1.28m/1yr plus team option

Joey Eischen, $1.04m/1yr

Cal Eldred, $600k/1yr

Alan Embree, $3m/1yr?

John Franco, $700k/1yr

Aaron Fultz, $550k/1yr

Chris Hammond, $750k/1yr

Dustin Hermanson, $5.5m/2yrs

Bob Howry, $0.9m/1yr

Bobby Jenks, waiver claim

Todd Jones, $1.1m/1yr

Steve Kline, $5.5m/2yrs

Ron Mahay, Undisclosed/2yrs plus team option

Matt Mantei, $750k/1yr

Jim Mecir, $1.1m/1yr

Kent Mercker, $4.3m/2yrs

Dan Miceli, $1.7m/1yr

Mike Myers, $600k/1yr

Antonio Osuna, $800k/1yr

Cliff Politte, $1m/1yr plus $1.2m team option

Steve Reed, $1.05m/1yr

Al Reyes, $600k/1yr

John Riedling, $750k/1yr

Scott Schoeneweis, $5.2m/2yrs

Mike Stanton, $316k/1yr

Rudy Seanez, $500k/1yr

Salomon Torres, $2.6m/2yrs

Derrek Turnbow, waiver-claim

Kevin Walker, $525k/1yr

Dave Weather, $1.35m/1yr

Ben Weber, $600k/1yr

Esteban Yan, $2.25m/2yrs

 

Not a three year deal in sight, not more than $5.5m on offer anywhere. And, yes, there's a lot of rubbish pitchers listed there, but I don't think many here would complain about a bullpen involving the likes of Politte, Howry, Seanez, Turnbow, Jenks, Myers at those prices...

 

Okay, 2003-04 now...

 

Terry Adams, $1.7m/1yr

Antonio Alfonseca, $1.35m/1yr

Armando Almanza, $500k/1yr

Rod Beck, $1.75m/1yr plus $1.75m team option

Joe Beimel, $535k/1yr

Chad Bradford, $965k/1yr

Hector Carrasco, $800k/1yr

Fransisco Cordero, $2m/1yr

Will Cunnane, $525k/1yr

Joe Dawley, $300k/1yr

Valerio De Los Santos, $850k/1yr

Mike Dejean, $1.5m/1yr

Cal Eldred, $900k/1yr

Scott Eyre, $2.45m/2yrs

Kyle Farnsworth, $1.4m/1yr

Chad Fox, $1.2m/1yr

John Franco, $1m/1yr

Tom Gordon, $7.25m/2yrs

Jason Grimsley, $1m/1yr

Shigetoshi Hasegawa, $6.3m/2yrs

LaTroy Hawkins, $11m/3yrs

Felix Heredia, $3.8m/2yrs plus team option

Matt Herges, $2.5m/2yrs

Roberto Hernandez, $775k/1yr

Jose Jiminez, $1m/1yr

Steve Kline, $1.7m/1yr

Curtis Leskanic, $1.25m/1yr plus $1.25m team option

Al Levine, $925k/1yr

Kerry Ligtenberg, $4.5m/2yrs

Mike Lincoln, $1m/1yr

Tom Martin, $3.3m/2yrs

Kent Mercker, $1.2m/1yr

Jose Mesa, minor league contract

Dan Miceli, $600k/1yr

Guillermo Mota, $1.475m/1yr

Jeff Nelson, $1.5m/1yr

Jesse Orosco, $800k/1yr

Akinori Otsuka, $2m/2yrs

Cliff Politte, $800k/1yr plus $1.3m team option

Paul Quantrill, $6.8m/2yrs

Steve Reed, $600k/1yr plus $650k team option

Ricardo Rincon, $3.65m/2yrs

David Riske, $1.025m/1yr

JC Romero, $820k/1yr

BJ Ryan, $1.275m/1yr

Justin Speier, $1.6m/1yr

Scott Strickland, $650k/1yr

Scott Sullivan, $5m/2yrs

Shingo Takatsu, $1m/1yr

Mike Timlin, $2.5m/1yr plus $2.75m team option

Ron Villone, $1m/1yr

Kevin Walker, $450k/1yr

Ben Weber, $600k/1yr

Gabe White, $2.15m/1yr

Scott Williamson, $3.175m/1yr

Tim Worrell, $5.5m/2yrs

Kelly Wunsch, $800k/1yr

Chad Zerbe, $325k/1yr

 

Obviously a considerable number of these signings are of players not eligible for free agency. All the same, none of the deals are offering 3 years, with the obvious exception of the one the Cubs handed out. And none of the deals are offering more than $7m, and that was handed out by the Yankees. Again, maybe you can make an argument that there's no-one out there of the same calibre as Howry/Eyre, it probably wouldn't be that good an argument, but whatever...

 

There's really nothing pointing to any market existing for either Howry or Eyre involving 3 years and upwards of $11m.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

if hendry goes out and gets abreu/giles/dunn for the of, i guess i can't complain about this middle relief splurge. but if he starts talking penny pinching and jacque jones is the rf in 2006...

 

we will all have to commit suicide on hendry's doorstep

 

i know i will at least

 

I'm with you. Where does he live?

 

i dunno but if i dont found out soon ill kill myself

He lives in Park Ridge.

[cubbyvirus00]

I can't believe people here think we coulda gotten them for cheap.

 

 

The Yankees and Red Sox are in the NEED for bullpen help. Do you realize they'll throw a ton of money at these guys, if given the chance?

 

 

Good job Hendry, fix the bullpen, strengthen our pitching.

[Roast]

I can't believe people here think we coulda gotten them for cheap.

 

I cant beleive you think he did the right thing by throwing out 2 three year 10+ million dollar contracts to "good" releif pitchers but is quoted as saying he doesnt want to get into a bidding war for one of the best outfielders in the game, when RF is arguably our biggest hole.

 

I agree we need pen help. And I'd even be content with signing Erye and Howry. Just not for that long, not for that much.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I agree we need pen help. And I'd even be content with signing Erye and Howry. Just not for that long, not for that much.

 

There's no reason both can't be done, and in all probability, will be done. We've done the $$ analysis several times in other threads, the $$ are there. I was one of the first to applaud Hendry for solving this long-standing weakness in our bullpen--notice I no longer have the "Fire Hendry" part of my sig? And I still applaud the move.

 

Now, if the offseason ends and he has left RF and CF and leadoff unsolved, THEN we have a serious problem, but I've seen nothing so far this offseason that suggests Hendry doesn't intend on addressing each area, and rather forcefully. We've been at the top of the list in discussions regarding Pierre and Furcal, we are usually mentioned in discussions of Austin Kearns and Kevin Mench and most promisingly, Bobby Abreu. This is progress, no?

 

Give the man a chance, I think he's having a strong offseason so far other than the ridiculous Neifi thing--which we all know is driven by Dusty, anyways.

[Neuby]

I agree we need pen help. And I'd even be content with signing Erye and Howry. Just not for that long, not for that much.

 

There's no reason both can't be done, and in all probability, will be done. We've done the $$ analysis several times in other threads, the $$ are there. I was one of the first to applaud Hendry for solving this long-standing weakness in our bullpen--notice I no longer have the "Fire Hendry" part of my sig? And I still applaud the move.

 

Now, if the offseason ends and he has left RF and CF and leadoff unsolved, THEN we have a serious problem, but I've seen nothing so far this offseason that suggests Hendry doesn't intend on addressing each area, and rather forcefully. We've been at the top of the list in discussions regarding Pierre and Furcal, we are usually mentioned in discussions of Austin Kearns and Kevin Mench and most promisingly, Bobby Abreu. This is progress, no?

 

Give the man a chance, I think he's having a strong offseason so far other than the ridiculous Neifi thing--which we all know is driven by Dusty, anyways.

 

Don im glad to see some else is waiting to see some other chips to fall before readying the pitch forks.

 

Ohman

Eyre

Williamson

Howry

Dempster

Wuertz/Nova/Guzman/Williams/Hill/JVB/Rusch

 

Zambrano

Wood

Prior

Maddux

 

granted some of those bullpen arms will be dealt or slotted into the fifth spot maybe but I for one am excited to think about what kind of run this staff from top to bottom can put together when heathly.

There is still money to spend and a lot of big bats that could be on the move Dunn, Abreu, Ramirez, Giles, Floyd ect.

I still find it odd that AJ Burnett name gets tossed around by Hendry a few times and his supposed friendship with Dempster. I am betting on him being on the Cubs staff along with a big bat and Pierre/Lofton/Bradley in center with Furcal at short. Yes I keep telling myself the Cubs payroll will be around 115 million.

[cubbyvirus00]

Why wait for Brian F Giles?

 

The guy wants to hold out as long as possible, for a bidding war. Nobody knows whats up with him, and which side of the country he's willing to play on. The odds of the Cubs landing him, with 5 times wanting him, aren't very good. Boston, NY, and the Cards being amoung the interested.

 

Hendry is aggresively bolstering arguably our biggest problem last season. Championship caliber teams, have strong bullpen's, and we'll have just that in 06.

 

The doomsday "omg" comments really are a tad irratating. I'm happy our GM is at least signing pretty good pitchers, to help out the bullpen. The only two big names left for bullpen help, are Ryan and Wagner.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I'm sorry, but the Howry and Eyre signings makes bringing Rusch back a premium all the more frustrating. I can live with overpaying on the bullpen. It's a hard thing to figure out and I can't totally bag on Hendry for just throwing money at it and hoping it gets better. At least he did something. I think that money could have been put to better use, but whatever. This move almost certainly moves Rusch into the rotation.

 

Prior/Zambrano/Wood/Maddux/Rusch

 

Maddux is nothing more than a 5th starter nowadays. We're basing a team on pitching that has 2 5th starters in our rotation? Awesome. I guess that balances out having 3 aces (when healthy). This is baffling to me.

[mg420]

I'm sorry, but the Howry and Eyre signings makes bringing Rusch back a premium all the more frustrating. I can live with overpaying on the bullpen. It's a hard thing to figure out and I can't totally bag on Hendry for just throwing money at it and hoping it gets better. At least he did something. I think that money could have been put to better use, but whatever. This move almost certainly moves Rusch into the rotation.

 

Prior/Zambrano/Wood/Maddux/Rusch

 

Maddux is nothing more than a 5th starter nowadays. We're basing a team on pitching that has 2 5th starters in our rotation? Awesome. I guess that balances out having 3 aces (when healthy). This is baffling to me.

 

i'm still holding out hope that maddux will retire and williams will get the job as the # 4. maddux is either really good or really bad at this point in his career with not many keep them in the game starts. i like williams and rusch as the #4 & 5 with hill in reserve in case of injury.

[RynoRules]

I agree we need pen help. And I'd even be content with signing Erye and Howry. Just not for that long, not for that much.

 

There's no reason both can't be done, and in all probability, will be done. We've done the $$ analysis several times in other threads, the $$ are there. I was one of the first to applaud Hendry for solving this long-standing weakness in our bullpen--notice I no longer have the "Fire Hendry" part of my sig? And I still applaud the move.

 

Now, if the offseason ends and he has left RF and CF and leadoff unsolved, THEN we have a serious problem, but I've seen nothing so far this offseason that suggests Hendry doesn't intend on addressing each area, and rather forcefully. We've been at the top of the list in discussions regarding Pierre and Furcal, we are usually mentioned in discussions of Austin Kearns and Kevin Mench and most promisingly, Bobby Abreu. This is progress, no?

 

Give the man a chance, I think he's having a strong offseason so far other than the ridiculous Neifi thing--which we all know is driven by Dusty, anyways.

 

Don im glad to see some else is waiting to see some other chips to fall before readying the pitch forks.

 

Ohman

Eyre

Williamson

Howry

Dempster

Wuertz/Nova/Guzman/Williams/Hill/JVB/Rusch

 

Zambrano

Wood

Prior

Maddux

 

granted some of those bullpen arms will be dealt or slotted into the fifth spot maybe but I for one am excited to think about what kind of run this staff from top to bottom can put together when heathly.

There is still money to spend and a lot of big bats that could be on the move Dunn, Abreu, Ramirez, Giles, Floyd ect.

I still find it odd that AJ Burnett name gets tossed around by Hendry a few times and his supposed friendship with Dempster. I am betting on him being on the Cubs staff along with a big bat and Pierre/Lofton/Bradley in center with Furcal at short. Yes I keep telling myself the Cubs payroll will be around 115 million.

 

I'm on the WGN w/ Don and Neuby. Give the man a chance; its not a terrible start, and Mr. Miles has implied that JH will be seeking out Mr. Gillick soon...(Abreu!!!!! :D )

[nick23]

I'm sorry, but the Howry and Eyre signings makes bringing Rusch back a premium all the more frustrating. I can live with overpaying on the bullpen. It's a hard thing to figure out and I can't totally bag on Hendry for just throwing money at it and hoping it gets better. At least he did something. I think that money could have been put to better use, but whatever. This move almost certainly moves Rusch into the rotation.

 

Prior/Zambrano/Wood/Maddux/Rusch

 

Maddux is nothing more than a 5th starter nowadays. We're basing a team on pitching that has 2 5th starters in our rotation? Awesome. I guess that balances out having 3 aces (when healthy). This is baffling to me.

I think it's absurd to say Maddux is no more than a 5th starter. Have you actually looked at his numbers from last year? There pretty decent. I would be willing to bet that a fair amount of teams would take a 1.2 WHIP and a 4.2 ERA from their 3rd starter. In my opionion Maddux is a very good 4th starter.

[USSoccer]

I'm sorry, but the Howry and Eyre signings makes bringing Rusch back a premium all the more frustrating. I can live with overpaying on the bullpen. It's a hard thing to figure out and I can't totally bag on Hendry for just throwing money at it and hoping it gets better. At least he did something. I think that money could have been put to better use, but whatever. This move almost certainly moves Rusch into the rotation.

 

Prior/Zambrano/Wood/Maddux/Rusch

 

Maddux is nothing more than a 5th starter nowadays. We're basing a team on pitching that has 2 5th starters in our rotation? Awesome. I guess that balances out having 3 aces (when healthy). This is baffling to me.

I think it's absurd to say Maddux is no more than a 5th starter. Have you actually looked at his numbers from last year? There pretty decent. I would be willing to bet that a fair amount of teams would take a 1.2 WHIP and a 4.2 ERA from their 3rd starter. In my opionion Maddux is a very good 4th starter.

 

Maddux's numbers indicate he is a back-of-the-rotation innings eater. An ERA in the mid 4's is not good. I would have been so pleased to have had his option not vest, but oh well.

 

Also, minor point to the earlier post: Unless Williams is traded, there's no way on earth Rusch can beat him out for the 5th starter's spot.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I'm sorry, but the Howry and Eyre signings makes bringing Rusch back a premium all the more frustrating. I can live with overpaying on the bullpen. It's a hard thing to figure out and I can't totally bag on Hendry for just throwing money at it and hoping it gets better. At least he did something. I think that money could have been put to better use, but whatever. This move almost certainly moves Rusch into the rotation.

 

Prior/Zambrano/Wood/Maddux/Rusch

 

Maddux is nothing more than a 5th starter nowadays. We're basing a team on pitching that has 2 5th starters in our rotation? Awesome. I guess that balances out having 3 aces (when healthy). This is baffling to me.

I think it's absurd to say Maddux is no more than a 5th starter. Have you actually looked at his numbers from last year? There pretty decent. I would be willing to bet that a fair amount of teams would take a 1.2 WHIP and a 4.2 ERA from their 3rd starter. In my opionion Maddux is a very good 4th starter.

 

We have 3 aces when healthy (prior/wood/zambrano). I'm saying Maddux shouldn't be anything more than a fifth start on this team. It's a huge dropoff between 1-3 and 4-5 in our rotation. Push Maddux back to the 5th spot and you'll have an above average 5th starter.

 

Maddux is also getting worse every year. He may have been a 4 last year, but the odds are against him putting up similar or better numbers next year.

[CUBZ99]

I'm sorry, but the Howry and Eyre signings makes bringing Rusch back a premium all the more frustrating. I can live with overpaying on the bullpen. It's a hard thing to figure out and I can't totally bag on Hendry for just throwing money at it and hoping it gets better. At least he did something. I think that money could have been put to better use, but whatever. This move almost certainly moves Rusch into the rotation.

 

Prior/Zambrano/Wood/Maddux/Rusch

 

Maddux is nothing more than a 5th starter nowadays. We're basing a team on pitching that has 2 5th starters in our rotation? Awesome. I guess that balances out having 3 aces (when healthy). This is baffling to me.

I think it's absurd to say Maddux is no more than a 5th starter. Have you actually looked at his numbers from last year? There pretty decent. I would be willing to bet that a fair amount of teams would take a 1.2 WHIP and a 4.2 ERA from their 3rd starter. In my opionion Maddux is a very good 4th starter.

 

Maddux's numbers indicate he is a back-of-the-rotation innings eater. An ERA in the mid 4's is not good. I would have been so pleased to have had his option not vest, but oh well.

 

Also, minor point to the earlier post: Unless Williams is traded, there's no way on earth Rusch can beat him out for the 5th starter's spot.

 

If Williams does beat out Rusch, then what do you do with Rusch? He stinks out of the bullpen and his $3m year would be a waste.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I'm sorry, but the Howry and Eyre signings makes bringing Rusch back a premium all the more frustrating. I can live with overpaying on the bullpen. It's a hard thing to figure out and I can't totally bag on Hendry for just throwing money at it and hoping it gets better. At least he did something. I think that money could have been put to better use, but whatever. This move almost certainly moves Rusch into the rotation.

 

Prior/Zambrano/Wood/Maddux/Rusch

 

Maddux is nothing more than a 5th starter nowadays. We're basing a team on pitching that has 2 5th starters in our rotation? Awesome. I guess that balances out having 3 aces (when healthy). This is baffling to me.

I think it's absurd to say Maddux is no more than a 5th starter. Have you actually looked at his numbers from last year? There pretty decent. I would be willing to bet that a fair amount of teams would take a 1.2 WHIP and a 4.2 ERA from their 3rd starter. In my opionion Maddux is a very good 4th starter.

 

Maddux's numbers indicate he is a back-of-the-rotation innings eater. An ERA in the mid 4's is not good. I would have been so pleased to have had his option not vest, but oh well.

 

Also, minor point to the earlier post: Unless Williams is traded, there's no way on earth Rusch can beat him out for the 5th starter's spot.

 

If Williams does beat out Rusch, then what do you do with Rusch? He stinks out of the bullpen and his $3m year would be a waste.

 

I don't think Rusch deserves to be in the rotation, just that he may be put there as the bp spots are limited now. He can't be traded until June, right?

 

The odds are Wood spends significant time on the DL and Willliams and Rusch both get spots in the rotation.

[nick23]

I'm sorry, but the Howry and Eyre signings makes bringing Rusch back a premium all the more frustrating. I can live with overpaying on the bullpen. It's a hard thing to figure out and I can't totally bag on Hendry for just throwing money at it and hoping it gets better. At least he did something. I think that money could have been put to better use, but whatever. This move almost certainly moves Rusch into the rotation.

 

Prior/Zambrano/Wood/Maddux/Rusch

 

Maddux is nothing more than a 5th starter nowadays. We're basing a team on pitching that has 2 5th starters in our rotation? Awesome. I guess that balances out having 3 aces (when healthy). This is baffling to me.

I think it's absurd to say Maddux is no more than a 5th starter. Have you actually looked at his numbers from last year? There pretty decent. I would be willing to bet that a fair amount of teams would take a 1.2 WHIP and a 4.2 ERA from their 3rd starter. In my opionion Maddux is a very good 4th starter.

 

Maddux's numbers indicate he is a back-of-the-rotation innings eater. An ERA in the mid 4's is not good. I would have been so pleased to have had his option not vest, but oh well.

 

Also, minor point to the earlier post: Unless Williams is traded, there's no way on earth Rusch can beat him out for the 5th starter's spot.

His ERA wasn't in the mid 4's. It was 4.24 with a WHIP of 1.22. Those are 3rd starter numbers. He was ranked 36 in ERA last year in the NL. Just a quick glance on espn shows he had a better year than Javier Vasquez, who I'm sure is not considered a 5th starter. A pitcher who is in the top half of the league in ERA and WHIP is much more than just a 5th starter.

[Mike Aller]

As said above, saying Maddux is only a number 5 pitcher is ridiculous. Yes, maybe on this team he is, but getting 4.2 out of a number 5 is very good production. Especially when you look at the rest of your pitching staff.

[nolanwood]

It's a joke to claim that Maddux is any worse than a 4th starter....I'd like to see Maddux as a 5th man on this team with somebody even better as a 4 man.....but there's many other teams in baseball that Maddux would fall in line as their 3 man easily.

[CUBZ99]

It's a joke to claim that Maddux is any worse than a 4th starter....I'd like to see Maddux as a 5th man on this team with somebody even better as a 4 man.....but there's many other teams in baseball that Maddux would fall in line as their 3 man easily.

 

Your right with Rusch and Williams in the rotation "it is a joke to claim that Maddux is any worse than a 4th starter", but the Maddux of old is not the current day Maddux.

 

I've heard reports that Maddux was going to train hard this off season, especially on strength conditioning. Would be nice to see him actually try to earn the money he is going to be paid this year, by being in shape.

[Magnetic Curses]

Why wait for Brian F Giles?

 

because he's exactly what this team needs.

 

Hendry is aggresively bolstering arguably our biggest problem last season. Championship caliber teams, have strong bullpen's, and we'll have just that in 06.

 

not many teams can do it without men on base. and this team, last year, didn't have anyone on base, despite hitting very well.

 

The doomsday "omg" comments really are a tad irratating. I'm happy our GM is at least signing pretty good pitchers, to help out the bullpen. The only two big names left for bullpen help, are Ryan and Wagner.

 

people are upset because he virtually bid against himself, signed them for much more than they're worth, and also signed rusch to a ridiculous deal, not even knowing how he'll be used.