Patterson offered for Wilkerson

[Jehrico]

I just think that if Hendry still thinks he can offer Patterson and get genuinely valuable players with good value-per-salary in return, that's silly. As silly as going into last winter thinking he could move Sammy and all of his contract and get a valuable player in return. You can wish for that kind of thing all you like. But it isn't going to happen.

 

Sooner or later you need to get more realistic. Or else you're going to have to face the nontender date and decide whether you want to count on Corey at $2.5 as a serious candidate to be your center fielder; or nontender Corey rather than pay him $2.5 to be a backup; or take whatever you can get, if anything, for him. Which is going to be a lot less than values like Wilkerson, Mench, or even Pierre.

 

Trying to dream up deals for useful value-per-contract targets in which Corey is the principle bait just isn't going to work.

 

That was just the starting point. I doubt Hendry himself expecteded them to accept the offer. His next offer, if Washington's rebuttal wasn't too far from reality, may very well be something like CPatt, Mitre, and Hill for him, maybe some cash. If you're expecting Hendry to give his best, most realistic offers as a beginning point, then I would have to wonder if you understand the bargaining process that goes on here. He could also just be soliciting a response from them to help him judge the market for CFers before making a decision to pull the string on a deal for Pierre or someone else.

[CubsWin]

I just think that if Hendry still thinks he can offer Patterson and get genuinely valuable players with good value-per-salary in return, that's silly. As silly as going into last winter thinking he could move Sammy and all of his contract and get a valuable player in return. You can wish for that kind of thing all you like. But it isn't going to happen.

 

Sooner or later you need to get more realistic. Or else you're going to have to face the nontender date and decide whether you want to count on Corey at $2.5 as a serious candidate to be your center fielder; or nontender Corey rather than pay him $2.5 to be a backup; or take whatever you can get, if anything, for him. Which is going to be a lot less than values like Wilkerson, Mench, or even Pierre.

 

Trying to dream up deals for useful value-per-contract targets in which Corey is the principle bait just isn't going to work.

 

That was just the starting point. I doubt Hendry himself expecteded them to accept the offer. His next offer, if Washington's rebuttal wasn't too far from reality, may very well be something like CPatt, Mitre, and Hill for him, maybe some cash. If you're expecting Hendry to give his best, most realistic offers as a beginning point, then I would have to wonder if you understand the bargaining process that goes on here. He could also just be soliciting a response from them to help him judge the market for CFers before making a decision to pull the string on a deal for Pierre or someone else.

And I don't think there was anything in the Gammons article that said it was Corey straight up for Wilkerson.

[CP_414]

How about C-Patt, Mitre, Hill, and any 1 of Novoa, Ice, Welly for Wilkerson, Livan Hernandez? Cubs would pick up all of the Wilkerson, Hernandez salaries.

 

Then sign Furcal and upgrade a corner outfield spot (Abreu, Giles, Dunn), and play ball.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Jim Bowden is a man who purposely went after Marlon Byrd last year. I think it's safe to say that Patterson is a toolsy guy that he would like. Whether or not he'll give up Wilkerson for him remains to be seen.

 

One thing that is worth pointing out is that Wilkerson is a player Hendry really likes. Some of us have been quick to point out that certain players Hendry targets(Kearns jumps out to me right away) signal that he's more interested in the tools than OBP. Hendry wanted Wilkerson in a discussed Sosa deal reportedly, and now he's reportedly trying to get him again for Patterson. This is good news that Hendry apparently sees value in Wilkerson's skill set. I just hope if acquired they put him in CF, let him hit first or second and leave him alone.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

How about C-Patt, Mitre, Hill, and any 1 of Novoa, Ice, Welly for Wilkerson, Livan Hernandez? Cubs would pick up all of the Wilkerson, Hernandez salaries.

 

Then sign Furcal and upgrade a corner outfield spot (Abreu, Giles, Dunn), and play ball.

 

If you trade that much for Wilkerson and Livian, I doubt you have enoug trade bullets left to get Dunn or Abreu. You'd be left to trying to sign Giles or looking at other targets.

[CP_414]

How about C-Patt, Mitre, Hill, and any 1 of Novoa, Ice, Welly for Wilkerson, Livan Hernandez? Cubs would pick up all of the Wilkerson, Hernandez salaries.

 

Then sign Furcal and upgrade a corner outfield spot (Abreu, Giles, Dunn), and play ball.

 

If you trade that much for Wilkerson and Livian, I doubt you have enoug trade bullets left to get Dunn or Abreu. You'd be left to trying to sign Giles or looking at other targets.

 

You think the Cubs are giving up too much in that deal? When I wrote it I figured I would get the response of "That isn't enough to get it done." I would say the only (potentially) major loss in that trade is Hill, and I'm far from sold on him.

[cjbucks]

How about Patterson for Bradley? Are Bill James projections really out for 2006? Just for kicks last year I used James projections to pick a couple of fantasy teams - one of which was league champion I modestly admit :D

[CP_414]

How about Patterson for Bradley? Are Bill James projections really out for 2006? Just for kicks last year I used James projections to pick a couple of fantasy teams - one of which was league champion I modestly admit :D

 

Were his projections close to reality?

[cjbucks]

Ya know the book is setting on my coffee table and I have intended to take a look at that but have not. Am taking next week off to do nothing so that could be pretty high on my agenda!

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

How about C-Patt, Mitre, Hill, and any 1 of Novoa, Ice, Welly for Wilkerson, Livan Hernandez? Cubs would pick up all of the Wilkerson, Hernandez salaries.

 

Then sign Furcal and upgrade a corner outfield spot (Abreu, Giles, Dunn), and play ball.

 

If you trade that much for Wilkerson and Livian, I doubt you have enoug trade bullets left to get Dunn or Abreu. You'd be left to trying to sign Giles or looking at other targets.

 

You think the Cubs are giving up too much in that deal? When I wrote it I figured I would get the response of "That isn't enough to get it done." I would say the only (potentially) major loss in that trade is Hill, and I'm far from sold on him.

 

I never said you were giving up too much, just when we do that deal, we won't have the right players left to get a Dunn or Abreu.

[CP_414]

How about C-Patt, Mitre, Hill, and any 1 of Novoa, Ice, Welly for Wilkerson, Livan Hernandez? Cubs would pick up all of the Wilkerson, Hernandez salaries.

 

Then sign Furcal and upgrade a corner outfield spot (Abreu, Giles, Dunn), and play ball.

 

If you trade that much for Wilkerson and Livian, I doubt you have enoug trade bullets left to get Dunn or Abreu. You'd be left to trying to sign Giles or looking at other targets.

 

You think the Cubs are giving up too much in that deal? When I wrote it I figured I would get the response of "That isn't enough to get it done." I would say the only (potentially) major loss in that trade is Hill, and I'm far from sold on him.

 

I never said you were giving up too much, just when we do that deal, we won't have the right players left to get a Dunn or Abreu.

 

You don't think the Reds would get enough in this deal:

 

Cubs get: Dunn

Twins get: Walker

Reds get: Pie, JC Romero, Jerome Williams

 

I think it could be done. It won't, but it could be done.

[woodprior04]

This was also in that article:

 

Incidentally, for 2006, James projects: Ryan Howard to hit 44 homers; Marlins rookie Jeremy Hermida to hit 27 homers with a .946 OPS; Nats 3B Ryan Zimmerman .315; BJ Upton .270 with 13 homers; Delmon Young .284 with 16 HR; Rickie Weeks .267 with 26 HR; Rockies 1B Ryan Shealy .301 with 13 HR; Cubs CF Felix Pie to hit 21 HR and an .874 OPS; Mets 2B Anderson Hernandez .295 with a .336 OBP; Chris Ddenorfia .308; Cubs INF Ronnie Cedeno .310 with an .800 OPS; Murton .318 with an .859 OPS; and Orioles rookie Nick Markakis .315 with a .910 OPS.

 

Cubs fans, take note of Murton, Pie and Cedeno.

 

 

Those are Bill James projections. 21 HRs for Pie? Seriously? I'll take those numbers from Pie, Cedeno, and Murton.

 

Most of those projections (not just the Cubs) seem to be a little high.

[woodprior04]

How about C-Patt, Mitre, Hill, and any 1 of Novoa, Ice, Welly for Wilkerson, Livan Hernandez? Cubs would pick up all of the Wilkerson, Hernandez salaries.

 

Then sign Furcal and upgrade a corner outfield spot (Abreu, Giles, Dunn), and play ball.

 

If you trade that much for Wilkerson and Livian, I doubt you have enoug trade bullets left to get Dunn or Abreu. You'd be left to trying to sign Giles or looking at other targets.

 

You think the Cubs are giving up too much in that deal? When I wrote it I figured I would get the response of "That isn't enough to get it done." I would say the only (potentially) major loss in that trade is Hill, and I'm far from sold on him.

 

I never said you were giving up too much, just when we do that deal, we won't have the right players left to get a Dunn or Abreu.

 

You don't think the Reds would get enough in this deal:

 

Cubs get: Dunn

Twins get: Walker

Reds get: Pie, JC Romero, Jerome Williams

 

I think it could be done. It won't, but it could be done.

I think the Reds are getting enough, but the Cubs are giving up too much.

[B]

i'd take pierre over wilkerson and i'm not fan of the noodle arm from florida.

They are sort of direct opposites of each other.

 

Wilkerson has power, not a lot of speed, has difficultly making contact, limited defensive range in CF but a really good arm.

 

Pierre has no power, a lot of speed, rarely strikes out, has great range in CF but has no arm.

 

They both bat lefty and have pretty good career OBP, but other than that, they are completely different, but both fill needs that the Cubs have. I'm sort of torn between the two at the moment, but you seem clearly against Wilkerson. Help me out. Whatcha got?

 

Pierre will be able to better handle the heat since he is darker. This will allow him to fatigue less from all of the day games at Wrigley.

[nilodnayr]

If Hendry is really truly interested in Wilk, then he really mihgt be interested in Dunn. I know the "I wouldnt trade Hill for Dunn straight up" comment made me think he wasnt a fan of Dunn, but maybe it just reflects his love of Hill. If we could get Wilk and Dunn we would have turned around our OBP issues in a big way.

 

What about Walker, Mitre, Pinto for Dunn and Cedeno for Wilk and Spivey? Cinci gets the second baseman they need as well as a sinkerballer they need in that park and a high level pitching prospect. The Nats clear about 7M, coincidentally the same amount Loaiza is asking for, as well as solve their only position hole with good, cheap production. Hendry signs furcal and our lineup looks pretty good

 

Furcal

Wilk

Lee

Dunn

ARam

Murton

Spivey

Barrett

 

Talk about a lineup where EVERY player can OBP over 350

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

i'd take pierre over wilkerson and i'm not fan of the noodle arm from florida.

They are sort of direct opposites of each other.

 

Wilkerson has power, not a lot of speed, has difficultly making contact, limited defensive range in CF but a really good arm.

 

Pierre has no power, a lot of speed, rarely strikes out, has great range in CF but has no arm.

 

They both bat lefty and have pretty good career OBP, but other than that, they are completely different, but both fill needs that the Cubs have. I'm sort of torn between the two at the moment, but you seem clearly against Wilkerson. Help me out. Whatcha got?

 

Wilkerson's OPS nose-dived last season (by about 100 points). I wonder why. It wasn't obviously park factor IMO, even though RFK was definitely not a hitter's park. Wilkerson's home/road splits for 2005:

 

home: .236/.367/.395/.762

away: .257/.337/.414/.751

 

Home was a little tougher on Wilkerson in some respects, but it seems like he just flat out lost the ability to hit the longball. His SLG is what really dropped and he had similar numbers of XBH compared to previous years, but a monster drop off in HRs. He could come back strong next season (bad season at an unlucky time), but the steroid issue makes me wary.

 

If we're talking about Wilkerson of '02-'04, I'd take Wilkerson over Pierre easily. Dusty had better not bat him leadoff if his power returns.

[E.J.]

i'd take pierre over wilkerson and i'm not fan of the noodle arm from florida.

They are sort of direct opposites of each other.

 

Wilkerson has power, not a lot of speed, has difficultly making contact, limited defensive range in CF but a really good arm.

 

Pierre has no power, a lot of speed, rarely strikes out, has great range in CF but has no arm.

 

They both bat lefty and have pretty good career OBP, but other than that, they are completely different, but both fill needs that the Cubs have. I'm sort of torn between the two at the moment, but you seem clearly against Wilkerson. Help me out. Whatcha got?

 

Wilkerson's OPS nose-dived last season (by about 100 points). I wonder why. It wasn't obviously park factor IMO, even though RFK was definitely not a hitter's park. Wilkerson's home/road splits for 2005:

 

home: .236/.367/.395/.762

away: .257/.337/.414/.751

 

Home was a little tougher on Wilkerson in some respects, but it seems like he just flat out lost the ability to hit the longball. His SLG is what really dropped and he had similar numbers of XBH compared to previous years, but a monster drop off in HRs. He could come back strong next season (bad season at an unlucky time), but the steroid issue makes me wary.

 

If we're talking about Wilkerson of '02-'04, I'd take Wilkerson over Pierre easily. Dusty had better not bat him leadoff if his power returns.

 

IIRC, Wilkerson was dealing with a sore shoulder most of last year. I don't know if he's healthy now or not.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

i'd take pierre over wilkerson and i'm not fan of the noodle arm from florida.

They are sort of direct opposites of each other.

 

Wilkerson has power, not a lot of speed, has difficultly making contact, limited defensive range in CF but a really good arm.

 

Pierre has no power, a lot of speed, rarely strikes out, has great range in CF but has no arm.

 

They both bat lefty and have pretty good career OBP, but other than that, they are completely different, but both fill needs that the Cubs have. I'm sort of torn between the two at the moment, but you seem clearly against Wilkerson. Help me out. Whatcha got?

 

Wilkerson's OPS nose-dived last season (by about 100 points). I wonder why. It wasn't obviously park factor IMO, even though RFK was definitely not a hitter's park. Wilkerson's home/road splits for 2005:

 

home: .236/.367/.395/.762

away: .257/.337/.414/.751

 

Home was a little tougher on Wilkerson in some respects, but it seems like he just flat out lost the ability to hit the longball. His SLG is what really dropped and he had similar numbers of XBH compared to previous years, but a monster drop off in HRs. He could come back strong next season (bad season at an unlucky time), but the steroid issue makes me wary.

 

If we're talking about Wilkerson of '02-'04, I'd take Wilkerson over Pierre easily. Dusty had better not bat him leadoff if his power returns.

 

IIRC, Wilkerson was dealing with a sore shoulder most of last year. I don't know if he's healthy now or not.

 

he missed a couple of games with forearm problems in May and a couple of games in August with shoulder soreness. i don't think the shoulder started acting up until late August, so the effect on his season's numbers wasn't that great, although the injuries certainly did hurt his numbers somewhat.

[E.J.]

i'd take pierre over wilkerson and i'm not fan of the noodle arm from florida.

They are sort of direct opposites of each other.

 

Wilkerson has power, not a lot of speed, has difficultly making contact, limited defensive range in CF but a really good arm.

 

Pierre has no power, a lot of speed, rarely strikes out, has great range in CF but has no arm.

 

They both bat lefty and have pretty good career OBP, but other than that, they are completely different, but both fill needs that the Cubs have. I'm sort of torn between the two at the moment, but you seem clearly against Wilkerson. Help me out. Whatcha got?

 

Wilkerson's OPS nose-dived last season (by about 100 points). I wonder why. It wasn't obviously park factor IMO, even though RFK was definitely not a hitter's park. Wilkerson's home/road splits for 2005:

 

home: .236/.367/.395/.762

away: .257/.337/.414/.751

 

Home was a little tougher on Wilkerson in some respects, but it seems like he just flat out lost the ability to hit the longball. His SLG is what really dropped and he had similar numbers of XBH compared to previous years, but a monster drop off in HRs. He could come back strong next season (bad season at an unlucky time), but the steroid issue makes me wary.

 

If we're talking about Wilkerson of '02-'04, I'd take Wilkerson over Pierre easily. Dusty had better not bat him leadoff if his power returns.

 

IIRC, Wilkerson was dealing with a sore shoulder most of last year. I don't know if he's healthy now or not.

 

he missed a couple of games with forearm problems in May and a couple of games in August with shoulder soreness. i don't think the shoulder started acting up until late August, so the effect on his season's numbers wasn't that great, although the injuries certainly did hurt his numbers somewhat.

 

Oops. :oops:

 

Thought he was dealing with the shoulder injury most of the year.

 

You'd also have to expect that getting him out of the cavern that is RFK would help his numbers.

 

I'd love to have Wilkerson on the team. I just don't see Hendry getting him. I think we're seeing this "Cubs have interest in Wilkerson. Cubs have interest in Bradley" to help bring down the trading price for Pierre. Pierre seems to be Hendry's #1 choice.

[Andy]

If Hendry is really truly interested in Wilk, then he really mihgt be interested in Dunn. I know the "I wouldnt trade Hill for Dunn straight up" comment made me think he wasnt a fan of Dunn, but maybe it just reflects his love of Hill. If we could get Wilk and Dunn we would have turned around our OBP issues in a big way.

 

What about Walker, Mitre, Pinto for Dunn and Cedeno for Wilk and Spivey? Cinci gets the second baseman they need as well as a sinkerballer they need in that park and a high level pitching prospect. The Nats clear about 7M, coincidentally the same amount Loaiza is asking for, as well as solve their only position hole with good, cheap production. Hendry signs furcal and our lineup looks pretty good

 

Furcal

Wilk

Lee

Dunn

ARam

Murton

Spivey

Barrett

 

Talk about a lineup where EVERY player can OBP over 350

Surely you don't think Jim Bowden would give us TWO of his starters for one minor leaguer??

[stitchface]

Jim Bowden is a man who purposely went after Marlon Byrd last year. I think it's safe to say that Patterson is a toolsy guy that he would like. Whether or not he'll give up Wilkerson for him remains to be seen.

 

One thing that is worth pointing out is that Wilkerson is a player Hendry really likes. Some of us have been quick to point out that certain players Hendry targets(Kearns jumps out to me right away) signal that he's more interested in the tools than OBP. Hendry wanted Wilkerson in a discussed Sosa deal reportedly, and now he's reportedly trying to get him again for Patterson. This is good news that Hendry apparently sees value in Wilkerson's skill set. I just hope if acquired they put him in CF, let him hit first or second and leave him alone.

 

This is the most important point to me - Hendry seems to at least be targeting some useful players and this is encouraging.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wilkerson's an odd case. His BABIP was actually higher this year than his better 2004. To me, you're getting a guy who in his down year was an average producing CF with good OBP. If he improves, then you have fantastic production at a good price. If not, then you have solid CF production and as long as you didn't sell the farm to get him, there's nothing to worry about.

[CUBZ99]

Jim Bowden is a man who purposely went after Marlon Byrd last year. I think it's safe to say that Patterson is a toolsy guy that he would like. Whether or not he'll give up Wilkerson for him remains to be seen.

 

One thing that is worth pointing out is that Wilkerson is a player Hendry really likes. Some of us have been quick to point out that certain players Hendry targets(Kearns jumps out to me right away) signal that he's more interested in the tools than OBP. Hendry wanted Wilkerson in a discussed Sosa deal reportedly, and now he's reportedly trying to get him again for Patterson. This is good news that Hendry apparently sees value in Wilkerson's skill set. I just hope if acquired they put him in CF, let him hit first or second and leave him alone.

 

This is the most important point to me - Hendry seems to at least be targeting some useful players and this is encouraging.

 

He supposedly was targeting useful players last year and at the trade deadline too. Only problem was that he didn't get many of them. With offers like Patterson for Wilkerson, it is not difficult to see why.

 

Not every team is like the Pittsburgh Pirates and willing to take

the Cubs trash for a good player.

[Knyption]

Wilkerson would be a decent start for the Cubs revamping the outfield.

 

Look at it this way He will outproduce either Burnitz or Patterson of 2005 in terms of obp, and possibly ops as well. He is young and can improve as well.

 

I would love a

 

Murton

Wilkerson

Some other banger

 

Outfield for '06.

 

If Pie is ready Wilkerson could be trade bait or moved to Right if he produces well.

 

He plays first base as well, so he can give DLee a breather once in a while which we all know Dusty likes to have.

 

My biggest concern is whether Dusty will actually play Cedeno or not, having Neifi and Walker back almost locks in the fact that Ronny won't see much playtime unless Walker gets traded.

[CUBZ99]

Wilkerson would be a decent start for the Cubs revamping the outfield.

 

Look at it this way He will outproduce either Burnitz or Patterson of 2005 in terms of obp, and possibly ops as well. He is young and can improve as well.

 

I would love a

 

Murton

Wilkerson

Some other banger

 

Outfield for '06.

 

If Pie is ready Wilkerson could be trade bait or moved to Right if he produces well.

 

He plays first base as well, so he can give DLee a breather once in a while which we all know Dusty likes to have.

 

My biggest concern is whether Dusty will actually play Cedeno or not, having Neifi and Walker back almost locks in the fact that Ronny won't see much playtime unless Walker gets traded.

 

Did anyone else notice the quote in the paper stating that Hendry wouldn't even listen to offers for Murton, Hill or Pie didn't say anything about Cedeno? Is Cedeno available for the right price?