After two games of the NLCS...

[K-Town]

Okay, after 4 games in the NLCS.... :wink:

 

the astros met my standard, and id say they are now the favorites.

 

I'm curious how much of a swing tonight's game would represent. If the Cards win, they they're back to Busch, and home field holds true. Winning 3 in a row is a pretty tall task, but it's happened before. If the Cards win tonight, then I think that the pressure shifts back to the Astros.

 

Of course, tonight is no guarantee, and Oswalt and Clemens at Busch isn't exactly a walk in the park, either.

 

The Astros have definitely put themselves in a good position. No doubt about it.

[treebird]

Okay, after 4 games in the NLCS.... :wink:

 

the astros met my standard, and id say they are now the favorites.

 

I'm curious how much of a swing tonight's game would represent. If the Cards win, they they're back to Busch, and home field holds true. Winning 3 in a row is a pretty tall task, but it's happened before. If the Cards win tonight, then I think that the pressure shifts back to the Astros.

 

Of course, tonight is no guarantee, and Oswalt and Clemens at Busch isn't exactly a walk in the park, either.

 

The Astros have definitely put themselves in a good position. No doubt about it.

 

i think if the cards win tonight, the astros remain slight favorites. if the cardinals tie the series at 3, i think it'd be all but even, as the cardinals would be at home, but i cant say that i love that pitching matchup for them.

[K-Town]

Okay, after 4 games in the NLCS.... :wink:

 

the astros met my standard, and id say they are now the favorites.

 

I'm curious how much of a swing tonight's game would represent. If the Cards win, they they're back to Busch, and home field holds true. Winning 3 in a row is a pretty tall task, but it's happened before. If the Cards win tonight, then I think that the pressure shifts back to the Astros.

 

Of course, tonight is no guarantee, and Oswalt and Clemens at Busch isn't exactly a walk in the park, either.

 

The Astros have definitely put themselves in a good position. No doubt about it.

 

i think if the cards win tonight, the astros remain slight favorites. if the cardinals tie the series at 3, i think it'd be all but even, as the cardinals would be at home, but i cant say that i love that pitching matchup for them.

 

I'd agree with that assessment.

[indifferent]

I know there's a lot of "gracious" Cards fans who are saying the reason we're losing is because we're not executing, hitting, etc. and just getting all around outplayed.

 

Well, I'm not one of them.

 

The whole series has been about scratching and clawing, close games, and neither team has done well with RISP.

 

I am going kvetch about yesterday's game because it was a one run game that could have had a completely different outcome. Thus, the series would be tied 2-2 heading into tonight's game.

 

Two opportunities squandered were a direct result of Cardinal gaffes. Marquis' bobble of Biggio's bunt ultimately resulted in the winning 2nd run. Pujols running from third with no outs in the 9th to be tagged out at home cost the Cards the tying run, no doubt.

 

Two opportunities were out of the Cards control. The umps HORRIBLE call on Edmonds to make it a full count on what was clearly ball four and would have been bases loaded for Pujols in the 8th (not to mention the ejection). Then Edmonds is ejected after he was jobbed. Rodriguez comes in and hits what would have been a 3 run HR in any other park.

 

Lastly this is the only subjective call IMO, I watched the replay several times and Mabry get there at the exact same time as the ball in which case he should have been safe.

 

So I see it as 2 hung on the Cards, 1 and a half on the ump, and 1 on Minute Maid (2 if you count Lane's HR).

 

Truly a distressing game if you're a Cards fan. The series game score is not indicative of the nature of this series at all. Lob all the Cards homer insults my way, call me in denial, but that's the way I see it.

[wolf stansson]

If the Cards tie it at three, who goes in game 7? Not Morris hopefully. Carp on 3 days?

[Keener98]

I know there's a lot of "gracious" Cards fans who are saying the reason we're losing is because we're not executing, hitting, etc. and just getting all around outplayed.

 

Well, I'm not one of them.

 

The whole series has been about scratching and clawing, close games, and neither team has done well with RISP.

 

I am going kvetch about yesterday's game because it was a one run game that could have had a completely different outcome. Thus, the series would be tied 2-2 heading into tonight's game.

 

Two opportunities squandered were a direct result of Cardinal gaffes. Marquis' bobble of Biggio's bunt ultimately resulted in the winning 2nd run. Pujols running from third with no outs in the 9th to be tagged out at home cost the Cards the tying run, no doubt.

 

Two opportunities were out of the Cards control. The umps HORRIBLE call on Edmonds to make it a full count on what was clearly ball four and would have been bases loaded for Pujols in the 8th (not to mention the ejection). Then Edmonds is ejected after he was jobbed. Rodriguez comes in and hits what would have been a 3 run HR in any other park.

 

Lastly this is the only subjective call IMO, I watched the replay several times and Mabry get there at the exact same time as the ball in which case he should have been safe.

 

So I see it as 2 hung on the Cards, 1 and a half on the ump, and 1 on Minute Maid (2 if you count Lane's HR).

 

Truly a distressing game if you're a Cards fan. The series game score is not indicative of the nature of this series at all. Lob all the Cards homer insults my way, call me in denial, but that's the way I see it.

 

This has to be the most assanine excuse out of the Cardinal fans that I have ever heard. Give me a damn break. You both play in the same stadium at the same time. Its not like the walls come in for the Stros while they are up and move back for the Cards. I think some of you Cards fans whining about "the joke of a ballpark" need to quit bitching and moaning about the size of the park, and worry about hitting over .200 with runners in scoring position.

[Keener98]

And as for Edmonds getting tossed, completely stupid on his part. You dont say what he said to an ump and not expect to get tossed. Was it a bad call...yea....do I blame him for questioning it .....no....but him being the veteran that he is, has to know that you cant get tossed in that situation, and the lil "f bomb" that came out was certainly enough to get him tossed. Between Larussa whining before Clemons start that he hopes that the umpire doesnt get to "caught up" in calling balls and strikes for Roger Clemons, and the whining about the field, and the umps this team is starting to remind of the the 2004 Cubs. If the Cards werent sucking with runners in scoring position(what like 3-36?) then the umpiring and the size of the field wouldnt mean a damn thing.

[indifferent]

I know there's a lot of "gracious" Cards fans who are saying the reason we're losing is because we're not executing, hitting, etc. and just getting all around outplayed.

 

Well, I'm not one of them.

 

The whole series has been about scratching and clawing, close games, and neither team has done well with RISP.

 

I am going kvetch about yesterday's game because it was a one run game that could have had a completely different outcome. Thus, the series would be tied 2-2 heading into tonight's game.

 

Two opportunities squandered were a direct result of Cardinal gaffes. Marquis' bobble of Biggio's bunt ultimately resulted in the winning 2nd run. Pujols running from third with no outs in the 9th to be tagged out at home cost the Cards the tying run, no doubt.

 

Two opportunities were out of the Cards control. The umps HORRIBLE call on Edmonds to make it a full count on what was clearly ball four and would have been bases loaded for Pujols in the 8th (not to mention the ejection). Then Edmonds is ejected after he was jobbed. Rodriguez comes in and hits what would have been a 3 run HR in any other park.

 

Lastly this is the only subjective call IMO, I watched the replay several times and Mabry get there at the exact same time as the ball in which case he should have been safe.

 

So I see it as 2 hung on the Cards, 1 and a half on the ump, and 1 on Minute Maid (2 if you count Lane's HR).

 

Truly a distressing game if you're a Cards fan. The series game score is not indicative of the nature of this series at all. Lob all the Cards homer insults my way, call me in denial, but that's the way I see it.

 

This has to be the most assanine excuse out of the Cardinal fans that I have ever heard. Give me a damn break. You both play in the same stadium at the same time. Its not like the walls come in for the Stros while they are up and move back for the Cards. I think some of you Cards fans whining about "the joke of a ballpark" need to quit bitching and moaning about the size of the park, and worry about hitting over .200 with runners in scoring position.

 

You know, you're right. I think Cardinal fans are the only fans that have ever lodged a complaint about Minute Maid or nick named it the Juice Box, etc. If you don't watch the game last night and say "Hmmm, Lane's HR would have been an outfield fly and Rodriguez would have had a HR in any other park", then I don't know what to tell you. Think the fact that the Astros play 81 games in Minute Maid has anything to do with their familiarity with the park's dimensions?

 

And the point of my post was not to rant on and on about one event, I pointed out about seven events that could have changed the course of the game, some of which were the fault of the Cardinals.

 

As far as Jimmy getting tossed goes, I really don't have an opinion one way or the other. I think you should get a little more leeway in the playoffs personally. Let's face it, Edmonds argues balls and strikes a lot closer than that one was throughout the course of the season and I don't recall him being tossed once. My beef was the egregious call on ball four that would have left the bases loaded for Pujols.

 

I'll "tip my cap" to the Astros when it's deserved as it was in Game 2 and 3, just not Game 4. Now if they win another game and advance to the World Series, I'll be rooting for them and I won't dwell on last night's game. I'm just glad last night's game wasn't the clincher for them.

[goonys evil twin]

If you don't watch the game last night and say "Hmmm, Lane's HR would have been an outfield fly and Rodriguez would have had a HR in any other park", then I don't know what to tell you. Think the fact that the Astros play 81 games in Minute Maid has anything to do with their familiarity with the park's dimensions?

 

Many fields have the "in any other park" factor. The bottom line is that's a bogus excuse, and completely ridiculous to bring up when insinuating the other team didn't deserve credit for the win.

[wolf stansson]

J-Rod should have hit it to left then. The Juice box complaints are pathetic.

[indifferent]

If you don't watch the game last night and say "Hmmm, Lane's HR would have been an outfield fly and Rodriguez would have had a HR in any other park", then I don't know what to tell you. Think the fact that the Astros play 81 games in Minute Maid has anything to do with their familiarity with the park's dimensions?

 

Many fields have the "in any other park" factor. The bottom line is that's a bogus excuse, and completely ridiculous to bring up when insinuating the other team didn't deserve credit for the win.

 

If I concede my post was bogus and ridiculous, can I still make the observation that it accounted for two runs in a one run game? My entire post listed a ton of factors that could have made for a different outcome, most importantly IMO the umpiring.

 

Am I frustrated my team couldn't capitalize on its opportunities? Sure. I just wish that was the only reason we lost. I still stick by my original conclusion that I'm glad it wasn't the clincher and that it was a frustrating game for a multitude of reasons.

[Keener98]

I know there's a lot of "gracious" Cards fans who are saying the reason we're losing is because we're not executing, hitting, etc. and just getting all around outplayed.

 

Well, I'm not one of them.

 

The whole series has been about scratching and clawing, close games, and neither team has done well with RISP.

 

I am going kvetch about yesterday's game because it was a one run game that could have had a completely different outcome. Thus, the series would be tied 2-2 heading into tonight's game.

 

Two opportunities squandered were a direct result of Cardinal gaffes. Marquis' bobble of Biggio's bunt ultimately resulted in the winning 2nd run. Pujols running from third with no outs in the 9th to be tagged out at home cost the Cards the tying run, no doubt.

 

Two opportunities were out of the Cards control. The umps HORRIBLE call on Edmonds to make it a full count on what was clearly ball four and would have been bases loaded for Pujols in the 8th (not to mention the ejection). Then Edmonds is ejected after he was jobbed. Rodriguez comes in and hits what would have been a 3 run HR in any other park.

 

Lastly this is the only subjective call IMO, I watched the replay several times and Mabry get there at the exact same time as the ball in which case he should have been safe.

 

So I see it as 2 hung on the Cards, 1 and a half on the ump, and 1 on Minute Maid (2 if you count Lane's HR).

 

Truly a distressing game if you're a Cards fan. The series game score is not indicative of the nature of this series at all. Lob all the Cards homer insults my way, call me in denial, but that's the way I see it.

 

This has to be the most assanine excuse out of the Cardinal fans that I have ever heard. Give me a damn break. You both play in the same stadium at the same time. Its not like the walls come in for the Stros while they are up and move back for the Cards. I think some of you Cards fans whining about "the joke of a ballpark" need to quit bitching and moaning about the size of the park, and worry about hitting over .200 with runners in scoring position.

 

You know, you're right. I think Cardinal fans are the only fans that have ever lodged a complaint about Minute Maid or nick named it the Juice Box, etc. If you don't watch the game last night and say "Hmmm, Lane's HR would have been an outfield fly and Rodriguez would have had a HR in any other park", then I don't know what to tell you. Think the fact that the Astros play 81 games in Minute Maid has anything to do with their familiarity with the park's dimensions?

And the point of my post was not to rant on and on about one event, I pointed out about seven events that could have changed the course of the game, some of which were the fault of the Cardinals.

 

As far as Jimmy getting tossed goes, I really don't have an opinion one way or the other. I think you should get a little more leeway in the playoffs personally. Let's face it, Edmonds argues balls and strikes a lot closer than that one was throughout the course of the season and I don't recall him being tossed once. My beef was the egregious call on ball four that would have left the bases loaded for Pujols.

 

I'll "tip my cap" to the Astros when it's deserved as it was in Game 2 and 3, just not Game 4. Now if they win another game and advance to the World Series, I'll be rooting for them and I won't dwell on last night's game. I'm just glad last night's game wasn't the clincher for them.

 

What does this have to do with the homeruns? So are you saying that the Stros use it to their advantage and try hitting the ball over the short fence in left? Hmmm thats a hell of a concept...short fence=easier to hit homerun....maybe the Cards should "get familiar with the parks dimensions" and "try" hitting it over the short left field wall instead of straight away center. Plain and simple both teams know the dimensions of the field and have the same advantage of the short left field fence....Its not an excuse.

[dalgreen]

I know there's a lot of "gracious" Cards fans who are saying the reason we're losing is because we're not executing, hitting, etc. and just getting all around outplayed.

 

Well, I'm not one of them.

 

The whole series has been about scratching and clawing, close games, and neither team has done well with RISP.

 

I am going kvetch about yesterday's game because it was a one run game that could have had a completely different outcome. Thus, the series would be tied 2-2 heading into tonight's game.

 

Two opportunities squandered were a direct result of Cardinal gaffes. Marquis' bobble of Biggio's bunt ultimately resulted in the winning 2nd run. Pujols running from third with no outs in the 9th to be tagged out at home cost the Cards the tying run, no doubt.

 

Two opportunities were out of the Cards control. The umps HORRIBLE call on Edmonds to make it a full count on what was clearly ball four and would have been bases loaded for Pujols in the 8th (not to mention the ejection). Then Edmonds is ejected after he was jobbed. Rodriguez comes in and hits what would have been a 3 run HR in any other park.

 

Lastly this is the only subjective call IMO, I watched the replay several times and Mabry get there at the exact same time as the ball in which case he should have been safe.

 

So I see it as 2 hung on the Cards, 1 and a half on the ump, and 1 on Minute Maid (2 if you count Lane's HR).

 

Truly a distressing game if you're a Cards fan. The series game score is not indicative of the nature of this series at all. Lob all the Cards homer insults my way, call me in denial, but that's the way I see it.

 

Getting mad at the ump for Edmonds getting tossed is rather silly. First, it was just a 3-2 count, I might be on Edmonds' side if he had been rung up. Who knows the next pitch he might've jerked out of the park or walked. Plain stupid to get tossed on a 3-2 pitch. Second, even if you insist on pinning a big part of the loss on the ump, who do you blame for the top of the ninth inning with runners at the corners and no outs and no runs?

 

Regarding the last out of the game, if you have to watch several replays in order to see if a runner is out/safe, then you can't blame the ump who only has one look at it and not replay after replay. This isn't similar to the Denkinger call in 1985 where a replay wasn't even needed to know he blew it. Here are some more excuses why the Cards are down 3-1:

 

Houston's pitching, Houston's pitching, Houston's pitching.

You should be glad the Cards didn't lose 4 games to none. Game 1, Carpenter didn't look dominating, he was in trouble a few times yet always seemed to get the double play ball when he needed it. Credit him for that. So, I think Houston's pitching deserves a lot of credit.

[Keener98]

If you don't watch the game last night and say "Hmmm, Lane's HR would have been an outfield fly and Rodriguez would have had a HR in any other park", then I don't know what to tell you. Think the fact that the Astros play 81 games in Minute Maid has anything to do with their familiarity with the park's dimensions?

 

Many fields have the "in any other park" factor. The bottom line is that's a bogus excuse, and completely ridiculous to bring up when insinuating the other team didn't deserve credit for the win.

 

If I concede my post was bogus and ridiculous, can I still make the observation that it accounted for two runs in a one run game? My entire post listed a ton of factors that could have made for a different outcome, most importantly IMO the umpiring.

Am I frustrated my team couldn't capitalize on its opportunities? Sure. I just wish that was the only reason we lost. I still stick by my original conclusion that I'm glad it wasn't the clincher and that it was a frustrating game for a multitude of reasons.

 

The thing is you cant blame the umpiring for the Cardinals lack of hitting with runners in scoring position. They had a chance in the 9th to at least tie the game up, but for some reason Pujols was going on contact. Was that the umps fault? The play at first is irrelevant as it was a bang bang play and to say the ump blew that call is proposterous. Split second decisions can go either way, at least he didnt hesitate or anything. He made the call emphatically. The reasons the Cards are down 3-1 in this series are obvious.....Houston pitching, Houston pitching, Houston pitching.

[K-Town]

What does this have to do with the homeruns? So are you saying that the Stros use it to their advantage and try hitting the ball over the short fence in left? Hmmm thats a hell of a concept...short fence=easier to hit homerun....maybe the Cards should "get familiar with the parks dimensions" and "try" hitting it over the short left field wall instead of straight away center. Plain and simple both teams know the dimensions of the field and have the same advantage of the short left field fence....Its not an excuse.

 

Well, to be fair, the Astros DID tie for the best home record in all of baseball this year. And their record is even better when the roof is closed (holds the crowd noise), so they've made a point of closing the roof for this series.

 

So their park does seem to have some quirky advantages that other parks don't.

 

Still I don't consider that to be an "excuse". You play where you play........ you still have to get the job done.

[Keener98]

What does this have to do with the homeruns? So are you saying that the Stros use it to their advantage and try hitting the ball over the short fence in left? Hmmm thats a hell of a concept...short fence=easier to hit homerun....maybe the Cards should "get familiar with the parks dimensions" and "try" hitting it over the short left field wall instead of straight away center. Plain and simple both teams know the dimensions of the field and have the same advantage of the short left field fence....Its not an excuse.

 

Well, to be fair, the Astros DID tie for the best home record in all of baseball this year. And their record is even better when the roof is closed (holds the crowd noise), so they've made a point of closing the roof for this series.

 

So their park does seem to have some quirky advantages that other parks don't.

 

Still I don't consider that to be an "excuse". You play where you play........ you still have to get the job done.

 

This isnt neccessarily directed at you but Its called HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE! That is the purpose of a home field. You are supposed to know the your home park there and take advantage of playing your home games there. I just dont get this bitching and moaning about the field being small that Im hearing a lot of Cards fans(not neccessarily you) I mean the fences are the same for both teams.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And as for Edmonds getting tossed, completely stupid on his part. You dont say what he said to an ump and not expect to get tossed. Was it a bad call...yea....do I blame him for questioning it .....no....but him being the veteran that he is, has to know that you cant get tossed in that situation, and the lil "f bomb" that came out was certainly enough to get him tossed. Between Larussa whining before Clemons start that he hopes that the umpire doesnt get to "caught up" in calling balls and strikes for Roger Clemons, and the whining about the field, and the umps this team is starting to remind of the the 2004 Cubs. If the Cards werent sucking with runners in scoring position(what like 3-36?) then the umpiring and the size of the field wouldnt mean a damn thing.

 

This is right on point. Regardless of the umpire's call, you can't turn around and use that word with the umpire. The rules clearly state you can't argue balls and strikes, especially using the word that was read from Edmonds's lips. I'm not saying that pitch was a strike, but Edmonds was out of line and should have been tossed.

[TruffleShuffle]

I was just shocked to hear that Edmonds was arguing a called strike... the stress of the playoffs must be getting to him, because that's just so out of character for him.

[CoolHandLuke]

What does this have to do with the homeruns? So are you saying that the Stros use it to their advantage and try hitting the ball over the short fence in left? Hmmm thats a hell of a concept...short fence=easier to hit homerun....maybe the Cards should "get familiar with the parks dimensions" and "try" hitting it over the short left field wall instead of straight away center. Plain and simple both teams know the dimensions of the field and have the same advantage of the short left field fence....Its not an excuse.

 

Well, to be fair, the Astros DID tie for the best home record in all of baseball this year. And their record is even better when the roof is closed (holds the crowd noise), so they've made a point of closing the roof for this series.

 

So their park does seem to have some quirky advantages that other parks don't.

 

Still I don't consider that to be an "excuse". You play where you play........ you still have to get the job done.

 

This isnt neccessarily directed at you but Its called HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE! That is the purpose of a home field. You are supposed to know the your home park there and take advantage of playing your home games there. I just dont get this bitching and moaning about the field being small that Im hearing a lot of Cards fans(not neccessarily you) I mean the fences are the same for both teams.

 

Another home run just hit due to the short porch in left that will give the cards fans reason to complain.

[sethuel1]

What does this have to do with the homeruns? So are you saying that the Stros use it to their advantage and try hitting the ball over the short fence in left? Hmmm thats a hell of a concept...short fence=easier to hit homerun....maybe the Cards should "get familiar with the parks dimensions" and "try" hitting it over the short left field wall instead of straight away center. Plain and simple both teams know the dimensions of the field and have the same advantage of the short left field fence....Its not an excuse.

 

Well, to be fair, the Astros DID tie for the best home record in all of baseball this year. And their record is even better when the roof is closed (holds the crowd noise), so they've made a point of closing the roof for this series.

 

So their park does seem to have some quirky advantages that other parks don't.

 

Still I don't consider that to be an "excuse". You play where you play........ you still have to get the job done.

 

This isnt neccessarily directed at you but Its called HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE! That is the purpose of a home field. You are supposed to know the your home park there and take advantage of playing your home games there. I just dont get this bitching and moaning about the field being small that Im hearing a lot of Cards fans(not neccessarily you) I mean the fences are the same for both teams.

 

Another home run just hit due to the short porch in left that will give the cards fans reason to complain.

 

check the game thread, the complaints have already started

[wolf stansson]

Albert Pujols is so unclutch.

 

 

 

So is David Eckstein.

[TruffleShuffle]

Albert Pujols is so unclutch.

 

Whatever, he just got lucky that there is a short porch in LF.

[CubmanPi]

you said pujols

[wekse]

http://sportspickle.com/features/volume1/11132001-pujols.jpg

[CubmanPi]

http://sportspickle.com/features/volume1/11132001-pujols.jpg

 

=D>