Predict the Apology

[nilodnayr]

They just showed a clip from a molina AB that the ump purposefully waited until AJ tagged molina on a dropped third strike before pumping his fist.

[Andy]

They just showed a clip from a molina AB that the ump purposefully waited until AJ tagged molina on a dropped third strike before pumping his fist.

He pumped his fist after Classless One swung and missed! He's OUT! Play over! This is absurd! Why can't Harold get this?

 

All this BSing by the umps to rationalize this is little more than blind lies to save their own rears. It's not going to work. Lots of boos for the umps and the White Sox catcher, whose name I'm not typing anymore.

[adamb0719]

Just had a chance to watch the BBTN take. Harold Reynolds is a moron. Raising the right arm is strike, pumping the fist is out. Come on, Harold. Don't be an idiot. Admit the Angels got jobbed.

 

Reynolds did say that got screwed. He said he would have done the same thing Paul did, and there is reason why all the Angels thought he was out.

[nilodnayr]

Just had a chance to watch the BBTN take. Harold Reynolds is a moron. Raising the right arm is strike, pumping the fist is out. Come on, Harold. Don't be an idiot. Admit the Angels got jobbed.

 

Yeah that confused me too. But these guys have literally combined probably experienced tens of thousands of professional ABs, so I dont know.

[nilodnayr]

They just showed a clip from a molina AB that the ump purposefully waited until AJ tagged molina on a dropped third strike before pumping his fist.

He pumped his fist after Classless One swung and missed! He's OUT! Play over! This is absurd! Why can't Harold get this?

 

All this BSing by the umps to rationalize this is little more than blind lies to save their own rears. It's not going to work. Lots of boos for the umps and the White Sox catcher, whose name I'm not typing anymore.

 

Exactly, the molina AB proves that he wasnt pumping the first until it was an out (i.e. not when the third strike came but when the batter was tagged).

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Comment on BTF's News Blog[/url]"]Posted by Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Patron Status on October 13, 2005 at 01:46 AM (#1680934)

 

Watch any drop third strike...the ump always pumps his fist for the strike but then does not call the out until the runner is tagged. The ump in the press conference indicated such that his fist pump was his normal strike call. Said he never called the batter out...and that is why AJ sprinted to first...he never heard the out call.

 

Eddings, on strikes three that hit the ground earlier in the game, always waited to pump his fist until after the batter was tagged, in some sense "completing" the strike.

 

In fact, this happened to Aaron Rowand, the batter immediately prior to Pierzynski. Strike three was in the dirt; Eddings extended his right arm to mark that no contact was made, Paul tagged Rowand, and then Eddings makes the fist motion. The exact same scenario played out with the final out of the White Sox 8th, the first out of the White Sox 6th, and the last out of the Angel 6th.

 

The fist pump is indeed the motion that Eddings makes for all strike calls. But it also true that there are zero instances of him pumping the fist before the tag on a swinging strike in the dirt.

 

Here's an instructive example: when Brendan Donnelly struck out Dye to end the fifth, Dye swung and missed at a ball nowhere near the dirt. Eddings extended his right arm to indicate no contact, and then made the fist. Everyone walked off the field with no problem.

 

Top of the sixth: Bengie Molina at the plate. Swing and a miss on a ball in the dirt. Eddings puts out the right arm. AJ tags Molina -- and then Eddings pumps the fist. It's clear that the fist, in this context, means that he's out.

 

Bottom of the sixth: Konerko strikes out on a ball in the dirt. It was a check swing. Eddings points at the bat to indicate he swung, but didn't make the forceful out call until Konerko was tagged.

 

Bottom of the eighth: Konerko strikes out on a ball in the dirt. Eddings points at Konerko's bat to indicate he swung (he had tried to check, but it was a clear swing). He does not make the fist pump until Konerko is tagged.

 

I already discussed Rowand in the bottom of the ninth.

 

On AJ's strikeout, Paul rolls the ball behind Escobar ... who did not go for the ball. He's looking toward home ... but no clip shows whether or not he saw the fist pump. BUT ... as Pierzynski is running to first, Escobar makes a motion to Eddings that seems to indicate that he did see it. There's a great shot of this on the Fox broadcast after Escobar's first pickoff throw to first, that is aimed right up the first base line.

 

Orlando Cabrera, Adam Kennedy, and Darin Erstad immediately protest, miming the fist pump that Eddings made. Basically, everyone in earshot who was watching the umpire had a chance to tell Escobar to go pick up the ball, and they didn't, because Eddings behaved in the exact same manner as he had after every strike three had been completed.

 

Eddings third-strike-in-the-dirt MO was clear; pump the fist when the tag is made. As he pumped the fist, Escobar, Cabrera, Kennedy, and Figgins all believed the out was recorded. If he truly believed the ball was in the dirt, he should not have pumped his fist, as his hand to the side motion had already demonstrated that no contact was made on the pitch.

 

The rulebook is not clear on Eddings' obligations in the case of a third strike hitting the ground. But it is clear that his actions on this play were exactly like those on strikeouts where the ball did not hit the ground, and that the four players with the opportunity to either pick up the ball or yell for someone else to relied on his actions.

 

This doesn't even take into account his possible mis-call to say the ball even hit the ground, as no one on the field thought it did, including Pierzynski, who clearly takes a step toward the third-base dugout before realizing that Eddings had not verbalized the call.

Edited October 13, 2005 by CaliforniaRaisin

[nilodnayr]

yeah that pretty much sums it up, lets play tomorrow!

[mhuber92211]

This is up there with that call in the NFL a few years back where the Jets won and knocked Seattle out of the playoffs with a phantom TD. What an awful call. I cannot think of a worse call in a game of such magnitude.

 

 

Are you kidding? That was a GREAT call.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I'm a Jet fan :D

 

 

Erggh...I'm still not over that call. Unreal how big screwups can get.

[NorthsideAvenger]

My question is: Where the heck is Bud Selig, or at worst his second hand man? Unless someone can prove either were at the game, this is a bullpoppy call. But then, this is the SAME president who allow a tie in the AS Game. If I was Arturo (owner) and Stoneman, I would demand to see Selig immediately to discuss a "mulligan" on the decision. I mean, the UMP clearly call him out, and the BALL didn't hit the ground. The loser was out, plain and simple. I don't want excuses, I want a game played fair. It's bad enough they didn't overturn the Hrabek "wrestling manuever" on Ron Gant in the 91 series. It's even worse not overturning the "Meier" incident. But this DECISION needs to be overturned for the sake of baseball purity.

[J.R.]

The Sox are a sham. The ump is a sham. The game of baseball is a sham for letting this stand.

[J.R.]

Do we feel lucky? No," Pierzynski said. "Did they feel lucky when they won last night?

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=251012104

 

seems pretty arrogant to me

 

He's one of many arrogant poopy heads on that wretched team.

 

This game's conclusion hinged on larceny. His brazen, unapologetic endorsement of such will no doubt resonate with many in their fanbase.

[danonwaveland]

The ump talked about 'if you watched my mechanics. . . ' The players aren't supposed to learn the "mechanics" of individual umpires. One umpire should signal his calls exactly the same as the next. There is no "styling" involved because this game is about the play on the field, not the umpire's personal style. I get very upset with the umpires who take 1.5 - 2 seconds before they stick their right hand out to call a strike. Selig needs to get uniformity into the way umpires signal their calls and, for that matter, how they interpret strike zones.

[gus_dog]

It was a bad call, however there's no way to say the Sox would not have won in the bottom of the tenth. Of course, the Angels could also have won it in the tenth.

 

Just an awful call on two fronts:

 

1) The batter swung and missed, the catcher caught the ball, the batter was out. Easy call.

2) Ump makes what appears to be th correct call, consistent with the way he has called the whole game up to this point, then inexplicably reverses his call.

 

Angels get screwed out of an at bat.

[CuseCubFan69]

AJ saw the ump put his right arm straight out and ran. The ump then put it up while AJ was running. I would assume he was out. But....if there is any doubt the players should take it out of the umps hands and tag the runner.

 

I also give AJ credit for taking advantage.

[K-Town]

AJ saw the ump put his right arm straight out and ran. The ump then put it up while AJ was running. I would assume he was out. But....if there is any doubt the players should take it out of the umps hands and tag the runner.

 

I also give AJ credit for taking advantage.

 

I don't think there was any doubt in the minds of the Angels players.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

AJ saw the ump put his right arm straight out and ran. The ump then put it up while AJ was running. I would assume he was out. But....if there is any doubt the players should take it out of the umps hands and tag the runner.

 

I also give AJ credit for taking advantage.

 

I don't think there was any doubt in the minds of the Angels players.

 

Exactly. Like I said before, when you see a guy extend his arm to the side, then make a separate motion of a fist, I don't know what else you are supposed to think if you are a fielder.

[CuseCubFan69]

AJ saw the ump put his right arm straight out and ran. The ump then put it up while AJ was running. I would assume he was out. But....if there is any doubt the players should take it out of the umps hands and tag the runner.

 

I also give AJ credit for taking advantage.

 

I don't think there was any doubt in the minds of the Angels players.

 

I agree but there was a longer delay after this strike 3 call. I do believe the umps blew this one but you have to be aware of the possibility.

[Chris]

Agreed. I can't see how the Angels could be faulted for not tagging the guy and/or not throwing the first. The gesture of the umpire was consistent with his gestures the entire game. Especially since the umpire didn't verbally make a call I can't see how any blame can be put on the Angels.

[K-Town]

AJ saw the ump put his right arm straight out and ran. The ump then put it up while AJ was running. I would assume he was out. But....if there is any doubt the players should take it out of the umps hands and tag the runner.

 

I also give AJ credit for taking advantage.

 

I don't think there was any doubt in the minds of the Angels players.

 

I agree but there was a longer delay after this strike 3 call. I do believe the umps blew this one but you have to be aware of the possibility.

 

 

So you think that every catcher should tag every batter, after every strike 3?

 

That's a little unreasonable.

[CuseCubFan69]

Agreed. I can't see how the Angels could be faulted for not tagging the guy and/or not throwing the first. The gesture of the umpire was consistent with his gestures the entire game. Especially since the umpire didn't verbally make a call I can't see how any blame can be put on the Angels.

 

His gestures were the same but this one had a longer delay. Tell me this...why did AJ figure it out?

[K-Town]

Agreed. I can't see how the Angels could be faulted for not tagging the guy and/or not throwing the first. The gesture of the umpire was consistent with his gestures the entire game. Especially since the umpire didn't verbally make a call I can't see how any blame can be put on the Angels.

 

His gestures were the same but this one had a longer delay. Tell me this...why did AJ figure it out?

 

AJ didn't figure it out. He made it up, and duked the umpire into believing it.

[CuseCubFan69]

AJ saw the ump put his right arm straight out and ran. The ump then put it up while AJ was running. I would assume he was out. But....if there is any doubt the players should take it out of the umps hands and tag the runner.

 

I also give AJ credit for taking advantage.

 

I don't think there was any doubt in the minds of the Angels players.

 

I agree but there was a longer delay after this strike 3 call. I do believe the umps blew this one but you have to be aware of the possibility.

 

 

So you think that every catcher should tag every batter, after every strike 3?

 

That's a little unreasonable.

 

Yeah...that's sounds logical. :D

 

Seriously, you can not assume and Paul did. The replays that we see are in slow motion and it's still pretty tough to tell if the ball even hit the ground. I don't think it did personally but it was pretty dang close. On balls that close to the dirt I have my catchers tag the batter IMMEDIATELY. Paul threw the ball back before the ump even signaled with his fist up.

[K-Town]

AJ saw the ump put his right arm straight out and ran. The ump then put it up while AJ was running. I would assume he was out. But....if there is any doubt the players should take it out of the umps hands and tag the runner.

 

I also give AJ credit for taking advantage.

 

I don't think there was any doubt in the minds of the Angels players.

 

I agree but there was a longer delay after this strike 3 call. I do believe the umps blew this one but you have to be aware of the possibility.

 

 

So you think that every catcher should tag every batter, after every strike 3?

 

That's a little unreasonable.

 

Yeah...that's sounds logical. :D

 

Seriously, you can not assume and Paul did. The replays that we see are in slow motion and it's still pretty tough to tell if the ball even hit the ground. I don't think it did personally but it was pretty dang close. On balls that close to the dirt I have my catchers tag the batter IMMEDIATELY. Paul threw the ball back before the ump even signaled with his fist up.

 

It's difficult for US to see, but I think that a catcher knows whether the ball hit the dirt, just by the way that the ball hits the glove. Paul clearly knew that he had caught it cleanly.

[TB_11]

This was a terrible call, no doubt. The Sox got lucky, and Eddings knows he messed up but won't admit it regardless of how much evidence there is to prove that he did.

 

That being said, this wasn't the worst call or performance made by an umpire during the post-season as some have said. It was one mistake, it just happened to be timed at the worst possible time, during the bottom of the 9th with two outs in a 1-1 game. The Denkinger call might have been worse. Eric Gregg literally expanding the strike zone 12 inches off the plate to give Livan Hernandez 15 strikeouts was far worse than the Eddings call, since it lasted over the course of the game and got worse as the game progressed.

[CuseCubFan69]

Agreed. I can't see how the Angels could be faulted for not tagging the guy and/or not throwing the first. The gesture of the umpire was consistent with his gestures the entire game. Especially since the umpire didn't verbally make a call I can't see how any blame can be put on the Angels.

 

His gestures were the same but this one had a longer delay. Tell me this...why did AJ figure it out?

 

AJ didn't figure it out. He made it up, and duked the umpire into believing it.

 

Watch the replay. AJ runs when the ump puts his right arm out straight and never saw his put it up. That indecision by the ump caused this confusion and AJ took advantage as he should do and IMO Paul assumed too quickly.