Cub Fans: hope, or foolishness?

[Soul]

At the risk of getting myself into trouble.....

 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if you guys & gals are even really bothered by the failures year in & year out by this organization. I've been watching Cub baseball for 40 years. Most of my family has been Cub fans for their entire lives. We've watched this play out over & over forever it seems.

 

I'm getting old :? And getting gray :wink: Watching teams like the Braves, A's, BoSox, Yanks, Cards, even the Stros every year. I sit back and watch, and they just have better teams than we do 9/10 years.

 

You have to wonder why, don't you? And at some point don't you have to get angry and demand more from your baseball team?

 

I don't buy that close to .500 is acceptable, or a rebuilding year, or O.K. because it's within a couple years of a playoff run. I want to have 90+ wins at least 3/5 seasons. I want meaningful games every September, and many Octobers. That's a winning, successful baseball team to me. That's what I see other organizations accomplishing.

 

So tell me. Am I just doomed to be a fan of a team that will never accomplish this? Does anyone here see a future for the Cubs that is anywhere close to what teams like the Braves & Yanks have accomplished? Maybe not playoff bound 20 years in a row, but say, in the playoffs more than 50% of the time? Or should I just give up hoping for that and just hope for the one-off playoff year every once in awhile?

[Andy]

I agree with you that mediocrity is unacceptable. This year was never going to be that successful, though. Even though I went with my heart and picked the Cubs to go to the NLCS this year, realistically the year after we traded a player like Sammy was always going to be a rebuilding year.

 

I have a lot of faith that if Jim Hendry can make some good moves and if the injury bug can go bite some other team next year for a change, that the Cubs can compete for a title in 2006. I don't know what those right moves would be but hopefully Jim does.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't buy that close to .500 is acceptable, or a rebuilding year, or O.K. because it's within a couple years of a playoff run. I want to have 90+ wins at least 3/5 seasons. I want meaningful games every September, and many Octobers. That's a winning, successful baseball team to me. That's what I see other organizations accomplishing.

 

That's your standard, and you hold up the White Sox as a bastion of success? They've been hovering around .500 for 5 years. You just said "How many teams can just put out incredible contenders every season? There's really 4. Cards, Yanks, BoSox, and Braves. The rest of the teams struggle, and the goal is to build a winner who makes a run in a given season."

[Soul]

I don't buy that close to .500 is acceptable, or a rebuilding year, or O.K. because it's within a couple years of a playoff run. I want to have 90+ wins at least 3/5 seasons. I want meaningful games every September, and many Octobers. That's a winning, successful baseball team to me. That's what I see other organizations accomplishing.

 

That's your standard, and you hold up the White Sox as a bastion of success? They've been hovering around .500 for 5 years. You just said "How many teams can just put out incredible contenders every season? There's really 4. Cards, Yanks, BoSox, and Braves. The rest of the teams struggle, and the goal is to build a winner who makes a run in a given season."

 

Yeah, sure----that's the goal for the WHITE SOX and others.

 

That shouldn't be the goal for us. We should be one of those cream-of-the-crop teams.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

At the risk of getting myself into trouble.....

 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if you guys & gals are even really bothered by the failures year in & year out by this organization.

 

I think most of us are, given the negative posts around here.

[Soul]

At the risk of getting myself into trouble.....

 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if you guys & gals are even really bothered by the failures year in & year out by this organization.

 

I think most of us are, given the negative posts around here.

 

It's not negative, man. It's frustration. 100 years of it. We all love the Cubs, or should at least.

[erik316wttn]

I used to be the biggest Cubs homer and the biggest optimist there ever was. It truly was sickening.

 

But I stopped after I was tired of getting my heart ripped out and stomped on year after year.

 

I figure it's a waste of time to be optimistic anymore with this team. You can be hopeful, but don't expect much. That way it doesn't hurt when they let you down, and if they have a good season, it's a pleasant surprise.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I hope at the beginning of every year and am bitter at the end of the season. There's nothing like the perennial letdown this team offers. :D

[leatherguts]

It's [expletive] inexcusable is what it is. I don't agree with Mariotti about much of anything, but when he wrote about the Cubs FO committing the biggest case of fan-fraud in sports history he wasn't off the mark.

 

The team needs to be sold, ASAP.

[UMFan83]

I don't aim high. I am not looking for a team that can dominate for 20 years. I am looking for a team that can have sustained success for 5 year. Heck, even the Royals and Brewers have flirted with that.

[cubbieinexile]

I have said it before but I would just like to be able to go into a season knowing that the Cubs will win 90+ wins that year. Know that regardless of injuries the Cubs will do what is necessary to get to 90+ wins. I would just like to go into a couple of seasons like that and not have some nervousness at the approaching season gnaw at my stomach.

[UMFan83]

Criteria - Last time a team has finished .500 or better 4 years in a row or if not, 5 of 6 years

 

ARI - 1999-2003

ATL - 1991-2005

CHC - 1967-1972

CIN - 1985-1990

COL - Never; born in 1993

FLA - Never; born in 1993, 2 championships

HOU - 1996-2005

LOS - 1996-2004

MIL - 1987-1992

NYM - 1997-2001

PHI - 1982-1987

PIT - 1987-1992

STL - 2000-2005

SDG - 1982-1985

STL - 1997-2002

MON/WAS - 1987-1994

 

BAL - 1979-1985

BOS - 1998-2005

CWS - 2000-2005

CLE - 1995-2001

DET - 1982-1988

KC - 1984-1989

ANA - 1982-1986

MIN - 2001-2005

NYY - 1993-2005

OAK - 1999-2005

SEA - 2000-2003

TAM - Never; born in 2001

TEX - 1989-1993

TOR - 1983-1993

 

Every non-expansion team has been in middle of one of these streaks since 1985. The Cubs havent been there since 13 years prior in 1972. Thats a history of futility

[Soul]

I used to be the biggest Cubs homer and the biggest optimist there ever was. It truly was sickening.

 

But I stopped after I was tired of getting my heart ripped out and stomped on year after year.

 

I figure it's a waste of time to be optimistic anymore with this team. You can be hopeful, but don't expect much. That way it doesn't hurt when they let you down, and if they have a good season, it's a pleasant surprise.

 

I hear you. And then just deal with the Cub fans who are still homers calling you a negative nancy.

 

I'm right there with you. After a certain point (in my case, about 35 years of disappointment), you learn to protect your emotions. This isn't a bad thing----it's a natural defense mechanism to deal with psychological TRAUMA. I'm only half-joking.

 

Hey---I totally understand if a Cub fan has optimism each year. I've been there, believe me. Been there for a long, long time. But unless something really changes, just understand that optimism is not eternal. It's conditional. Conditional upon the team actually redeeming that optimism at some point in your life. And the Cubs haven't. Not in any of our lifetimes.

 

Even the late '60's to early '70s "Cubs run" yielded no playoff appearances and was more about disappointment than delivery on a promise.

[fromthestretch]

It's [expletive] inexcusable is what it is. I don't agree with Mariotti about much of anything, but when he wrote about the Cubs FO committing the biggest case of fan-fraud in sports history he wasn't off the mark.

 

The team needs to be sold, ASAP.

 

Selling this team isn't going to change things. The amount of money being spent is fine. They just need people who know how to spend the money wisely.

[Larry Horse]

Soul, I'm right there with you and I've only been rooting for 28 years.

 

About three years ago, I thought to myself " Why am I continuing to give this club my hard earned money?". I quit buying the Trib, any Cub related merchandise and I haven't been to a game since. The whole "legal" ticket scalping really solidified it for me. That was just a case of the Cubs kicking their fans in the crotch.

 

If Dusty gets his extension, I won't be watching next year. I'll just check the scores online, and get my info from here.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Please watch the language, folks. Thanks.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Criteria - Last time a team has finished .500 or better 4 years in a row or if not, 5 of 6 years

 

CHC - 1967-1972

 

Every non-expansion team has been in middle of one of these streaks since 1985. The Cubs havent been there since 13 years prior in 1972. Thats a history of futility

 

It's really worse than it appears at first glance.......

 

          1946 thru 2004                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

New York Yankees         5303    3987   0.571    30    16     9
Los Angeles Dodgers      5143    4166   0.552    20     6     9
Boston Red Sox           4940    4361   0.531    11     1     4
St. Louis Cardinals      4886    4407   0.526    13     4     4
Atlanta Braves           4881    4405   0.526    18     2     6
San Francisco Giants     4851    4461   0.521    10     1     4
Cincinnati Reds          4784    4511   0.515     9     3     3
Arizona Diamondbacks      575     559   0.507     3     1     0
Chicago White Sox        4701    4581   0.506     4     0     1
Cleveland Indians        4694    4593   0.505     8     1     3
Baltimore Orioles        4671    4611   0.503    10     3     3
Houston Astros           3405    3433   0.498     8     0     0
Toronto Blue Jays        2178    2222   0.495     5     2     0
Detroit Tigers           4607    4698   0.495     4     2     0
Kansas City Royals       2806    2875   0.494     7     1     1
Anaheim Angels           3412    3595   0.487     5     1     0
Pittsburgh Pirates       4522    4764   0.487    10     3     0
Philadelphia Phillies    4504    4775   0.485     8     1     3
Washington Nationals     2755    2943   0.484     1     0     0
Oakland A's              4499    4804   0.484    14     4     2
Minnesota Twins          4441    4853   0.478     8     2     1
New York Mets            3228    3596   0.473     6     2     2
Seattle Mariners         2080    2331   0.472     4     0     0
Milwaukee Brewers        2680    3019   0.470     2     0     1
Colorado Rockies          882     999   0.469     1     0     0
Florida Marlins           880     997   0.469     2     2     0
Chicago Cubs             4339    4947   0.467     4     0     0
Texas Rangers            3257    3724   0.467     3     0     0
San Diego Padres         2611    3094   0.458     3     0     2
Tampa Bay Devilrays       451     680   0.399     0     0     0

 

I keep asking myself why I still follow this team ?????

[Andy]

I would not have guessed that Texas had been worse than we were.

[Soul]

Great chart Fred.

[erik316wttn]

Criteria - Last time a team has finished .500 or better 4 years in a row or if not, 5 of 6 years

 

CHC - 1967-1972

 

Every non-expansion team has been in middle of one of these streaks since 1985. The Cubs havent been there since 13 years prior in 1972. Thats a history of futility

 

It's really worse than it appears at first glance.......

 

          1946 thru 2004                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

New York Yankees         5303    3987   0.571    30    16     9
Los Angeles Dodgers      5143    4166   0.552    20     6     9
Boston Red Sox           4940    4361   0.531    11     1     4
St. Louis Cardinals      4886    4407   0.526    13     4     4
Atlanta Braves           4881    4405   0.526    18     2     6
San Francisco Giants     4851    4461   0.521    10     1     4
Cincinnati Reds          4784    4511   0.515     9     3     3
Arizona Diamondbacks      575     559   0.507     3     1     0
Chicago White Sox        4701    4581   0.506     4     0     1
Cleveland Indians        4694    4593   0.505     8     1     3
Baltimore Orioles        4671    4611   0.503    10     3     3
Houston Astros           3405    3433   0.498     8     0     0
Toronto Blue Jays        2178    2222   0.495     5     2     0
Detroit Tigers           4607    4698   0.495     4     2     0
Kansas City Royals       2806    2875   0.494     7     1     1
Anaheim Angels           3412    3595   0.487     5     1     0
Pittsburgh Pirates       4522    4764   0.487    10     3     0
Philadelphia Phillies    4504    4775   0.485     8     1     3
Washington Nationals     2755    2943   0.484     1     0     0
Oakland A's              4499    4804   0.484    14     4     2
Minnesota Twins          4441    4853   0.478     8     2     1
New York Mets            3228    3596   0.473     6     2     2
Seattle Mariners         2080    2331   0.472     4     0     0
Milwaukee Brewers        2680    3019   0.470     2     0     1
Colorado Rockies          882     999   0.469     1     0     0
Florida Marlins           880     997   0.469     2     2     0
Chicago Cubs             4339    4947   0.467     4     0     0
Texas Rangers            3257    3724   0.467     3     0     0
San Diego Padres         2611    3094   0.458     3     0     2
Tampa Bay Devilrays       451     680   0.399     0     0     0

 

I keep asking myself why I still follow this team ?????

 

Ok, Fred, now what are the stats when each team holds the opposition to 4 runs or less?

[stitchface]

I think my frustration came to a head this year, not only did the team underachieve, but the manager managed to prevent the team from taking steps to improve for next year. This team was painful to watch. This team gave me little hope for the future. I think the Cubs have the worst collection of coaches around. Our players, young and veteran, seem to get worse instead of better. Fundamentals are awful and many of the players don't seem to have their heads in the game. Pitchers with poor mechanics never improve. There was some discussion of the cubs developing prior in another thread. It almost seems like the Cubs are ruining prior instead of developing him. This guy had 180:15 K:BB ratio at USC and now he struggles to throw strikes, has injury problems, and is nowhere near the pitcher he was when he arrived. Maybe that's coincidence but I would have liked to see at least one of the young pitchers improve over the last two or three years.

[Soul]

I watch these other franchises. I watch them bring up solid players, put together winning teams, make the playoffs several years in a row.

 

I watch them suffer injuries yet still dominate. I watch them actually COME BACK from a miserable first two months of the season (there's a novel concept) to make the playoffs.

 

I see teams who didn't even exist in my childhood win the World Series. I see a team who everyone said was cursed finally win a World Championship. I see a California team who played second fiddle their entire existence finally win a World Series in 2002 (I believe that was the Angels' year).

 

I watch teams with half our payroll make playoff runs consistently. I watch 2 teams dominate our division on less money.

 

I sit and watch all this and wonder: when is our turn?

 

I'm not a baseball genius. I can't tell you the exact technical reasons why we fail and others succeed. But I know a little about motivation, and if you are already packing the house finishing last, there isn't much mojo to go out and win. The Cubs are spending money. Well----they sure aren't spending it right, I can tell you that because of the results.

 

What's it going to take to get this franchise in the perennial winner's column? The only thing I can think of from a fan's perspective is to stop giving the Tribune money, in order to provide a little artificial motivation to win.

[stitchface]

So you think spending less money will help? I don't think so. The Cubs need a person at the top with an understanding and a plan. Otherwise, we will have to wait on luck.

[Soul]

With our minor league system? I think you're right. Spending less is probably not the answer. I don't know what is.

[stitchface]

Spending less on a manager would be a good start. My point is that I don't see that us withdrawing our support would change anything. The majority of "fans" at Wrigley aren't really fans. They don't understand the game and they certainly don't spend time discussing the team on message boards. So, there is your conundrum. you can walk away, but it won't help the team win. Though, in theory, you would no longer care.