Neifi deserves the Gold Glove!

[rawaction]

Yeah, I said it! I pointed this out in the gamethread, but I've done more research.

 

-2nd in NL in fielding % from SS. Only behind Vizquel, who he beats in range, thus having many more chances per game.

 

-Leads the NL in Zone Rating (tied with Jack Wilson), which means he's the most reliable fielder of the bunch.

 

-Turns the 2nd best doubleplay in the league behind Alex Gonzalez, who's 4th from the bottom in fielding %.

 

And I think you gotta take into consideration that he was supposed to be a bench player, and that he has been the only one of the group that has played 2B and a little 3B.

 

The only competition Neifi should have for the award is Jack Wilson, Omar Vizquel, and possibly Rafael Furcal. Wilson won't win because he's playing in obscurity. Omar has a shot based on reputation. Furcal has a shot based on having the best range, arm, and team.

 

That being said, the NL Gold Glove for SS will go to none other than......David Eckstein. :pukel:

[BigbadB]

It would be an utter shame to see Khalil Greene NOT win the Gold Glove. He should have won it last year too.

 

No one in either league remotely comes close to being as good a shortstop as Khalil Greene is defensively.

 

But, then again, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave it to Rafael Palmeiro instead. Doesn't matter he has never played a game at SS, it's the thought of how good he just might be if he ever did that counts. :roll:

[rawaction]

Greene is probably the best defensive SS out there, but he doesn't deserve it this year. Greene is next to last in fielding %. He has 5 more errors than Neifi in 50 fewer innings. He has 6 more errors than Vizquel in 250 fewer innings.

 

And I'm not saying Neifi is the best defensive SS in the league. I think Greene, Furcal, Wilson, and Gonzalez are better.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I fear that if Neifi gets the gold glove, Hendry will be using that to trumpet signing him and making him the starting shortstop in 2006.

[BigbadB]

Greene is probably the best defensive SS out there, but he doesn't deserve it this year. Greene is next to last in fielding %. He has 5 more errors than Neifi in 50 fewer innings. He has 6 more errors than Vizquel in 250 fewer innings.

 

And I'm not saying Neifi is the best defensive SS in the league. I think Greene, Furcal, Wilson, and Gonzalez are better.

 

Baseball has never used defensive stats to determine Gold Glove. They rely more on offensive production, which makes little to no sense.

 

If I'm going to turn on the tv and watch the best shortstop in the game, I'm going to turn on the Padres. Greene does make some unforced errors, but he also creates outs that no other shortstop could. That, in and of itself and in my opinion, creates a trade off.

 

I could see an argument made for the guy who has the best range and the fewest errors with a high amount of PO's. But, I never had a problem with Ozzie Smith winning Gold Glove awards and I don't see a problem with Khalil Greene winning a Gold Glove.

 

If I'm going to rank shortstops defensively, I'm not using stats. I'm using what I see everyday. Khalil Greene has more web gems and sparkling defensive plays this year than the entire remaining San Diego Padres team put together.

 

Not saying my opinion is right. I'm just saying that it's my opinion that if anyone in the NL deserves the Gold Glove at SS, it's Greene. For those who haven't had the opportunity to watch him on a day to day basis, you are truly missing out on one very impressive defensive player at SS. You'll see him in the playoffs this year.

[CUBZ99]

Greene is probably the best defensive SS out there, but he doesn't deserve it this year. Greene is next to last in fielding %. He has 5 more errors than Neifi in 50 fewer innings. He has 6 more errors than Vizquel in 250 fewer innings.

 

And I'm not saying Neifi is the best defensive SS in the league. I think Greene, Furcal, Wilson, and Gonzalez are better.

 

Baseball has never used defensive stats to determine Gold Glove. They rely more on offensive production, which makes little to no sense.

 

I think your overstating that a bit. They do consider offensive production but if you look at Matheny and Ausmus at C or Lee (pre-this year) your theory doesn't hold water.

[BigbadB]

Greene is probably the best defensive SS out there, but he doesn't deserve it this year. Greene is next to last in fielding %. He has 5 more errors than Neifi in 50 fewer innings. He has 6 more errors than Vizquel in 250 fewer innings.

 

And I'm not saying Neifi is the best defensive SS in the league. I think Greene, Furcal, Wilson, and Gonzalez are better.

 

Baseball has never used defensive stats to determine Gold Glove. They rely more on offensive production, which makes little to no sense.

 

I think your overstating that a bit. They do consider offensive production but if you look at Matheny and Ausmus at C or Lee (pre-this year) your theory doesn't hold water.

 

How does one explain Rafael Palmeiro. Palmeiro played 28 games at 1b the year he won a GG. 28 games isn't even 1/5 of a season. It's the equivilent of 1 month of play out of the whole baseball year.

 

Offensive production should have zero impact on a defensive award. Period.

[RockTheIvy]

Greene is probably the best defensive SS out there, but he doesn't deserve it this year. Greene is next to last in fielding %. He has 5 more errors than Neifi in 50 fewer innings. He has 6 more errors than Vizquel in 250 fewer innings.

 

And I'm not saying Neifi is the best defensive SS in the league. I think Greene, Furcal, Wilson, and Gonzalez are better.

 

Baseball has never used defensive stats to determine Gold Glove. They rely more on offensive production, which makes little to no sense.

 

I think your overstating that a bit. They do consider offensive production but if you look at Matheny and Ausmus at C or Lee (pre-this year) your theory doesn't hold water.

 

How does one explain Rafael Palmeiro. Palmeiro played 28 games at 1b the year he won a GG. 28 games isn't even 1/5 of a season. It's the equivilent of 1 month of play out of the whole baseball year.

 

Offensive production should have zero impact on a defensive award. Period.

 

Steroids. IIRC, he was robbing HRs from 1B, playing a great CF, from 1B, and even doing a bit of catching. All while playing 1B. I mean, steroids man.

[CUBZ99]

Greene is probably the best defensive SS out there, but he doesn't deserve it this year. Greene is next to last in fielding %. He has 5 more errors than Neifi in 50 fewer innings. He has 6 more errors than Vizquel in 250 fewer innings.

 

And I'm not saying Neifi is the best defensive SS in the league. I think Greene, Furcal, Wilson, and Gonzalez are better.

 

Baseball has never used defensive stats to determine Gold Glove. They rely more on offensive production, which makes little to no sense.

 

I think your overstating that a bit. They do consider offensive production but if you look at Matheny and Ausmus at C or Lee (pre-this year) your theory doesn't hold water.

 

How does one explain Rafael Palmeiro. Palmeiro played 28 games at 1b the year he won a GG. 28 games isn't even 1/5 of a season. It's the equivilent of 1 month of play out of the whole baseball year.

 

Offensive production should have zero impact on a defensive award. Period.

 

Did Palmerio hit 40 hrs in 28 games? How did his offense that year figure into the award? Surely some 1B had to have better offensive numbers that year.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Greene is probably the best defensive SS out there, but he doesn't deserve it this year. Greene is next to last in fielding %. He has 5 more errors than Neifi in 50 fewer innings. He has 6 more errors than Vizquel in 250 fewer innings.

 

And I'm not saying Neifi is the best defensive SS in the league. I think Greene, Furcal, Wilson, and Gonzalez are better.

 

Baseball has never used defensive stats to determine Gold Glove. They rely more on offensive production, which makes little to no sense.

 

I think your overstating that a bit. They do consider offensive production but if you look at Matheny and Ausmus at C or Lee (pre-this year) your theory doesn't hold water.

 

How does one explain Rafael Palmeiro. Palmeiro played 28 games at 1b the year he won a GG. 28 games isn't even 1/5 of a season. It's the equivilent of 1 month of play out of the whole baseball year.

 

Offensive production should have zero impact on a defensive award. Period.

 

Did Palmerio hit 40 hrs in 28 games? How did his offense that year figure into the award? Surely some 1B had to have better offensive numbers that year.

Note the bolded part. He played more than 28 games in that season but they weren't at 1st base.

[erik316wttn]

I fear that if Neifi gets the gold glove, Hendry will be using that to trumpet signing him and making him the starting shortstop in 2006.

 

This is my fear as well. Give him an award, Dusty will have even MORE motivation to use him, and he'll be around here as long as Dusty is.

[imb]

I think we should sign Neifi! to an April only contract.

[Illini Iceman]

I fear that if Neifi gets the gold glove, Hendry will be using that to trumpet signing him and making him the starting shortstop in 2006.

 

This is my fear as well. Give him an award, Dusty will have even MORE motivation to use him, and he'll be around here as long as Dusty is.

 

It could go the other way. Winning the Gold Golve might increase interest in him among other teams and put his salary demands above where Hendry is willing to go to sign him. I think if Hendry can get him for a bargain contract again he will consider bringing him back but I don't see any way he gets into a bidding war to re-sign Neifi.

[katway]

Neifi is is sure handed as they come, but his range isn't very good. No doubt that he'll make the play if he gets to it; but, I just haven't felt that he has gotten to a lot of balls that other SSs could reach. For that reason, I wouldn't give him the GG.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think we should sign Neifi! to an April only contract.

 

Somebody has been studying his monthly splits. Unfortunately, a lot of fans and we will see if Hendry is included, remember those hot April streaks and think they pertain to the whole season.

 

Oh yeah, and the Gold Glove is a joke.

[erik316wttn]

I think we should sign Neifi! to an April only contract.

 

Somebody has been studying his monthly splits. Unfortunately, a lot of fans and we will see if Hendry is included, remember those hot April streaks and think they pertain to the whole season.

 

Oh yeah, and the Gold Glove is a joke.

 

Not a joke, but close.

 

Offense does factor into it, as usually you won't see a regular who is awesome with the glove, but hits .220 win the Gold Glove.

[thedaymen]

How can you have a discussion of the great SS's in the NL and not even mention Jose Reyes?

[sonofsamiam]

As of 9/20, Neifi was tied for 4th in the NL in SS fielding Win Shares. Furcal was 1st, Jack Wilson 2nd, and Eckstein (yes, Eckstein) 3rd.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/winshares/index.php?search=&linesToDisplay=800&sort=pos&sort2=field&limit1=Team&limit2=Position&leagueLimit=NL

 

Take this measurement for what it's worth -- no fielding metric seems to be perfect. Also, bear in mind that Win Shares are a counting stat, so if you miss time (e.g., like K. Greene did), it will affect your numbers.

 

Still, here are the top fielding Win Share earners at each position:

 

1B: Lee, Helton (tie)

2B: Grudzielanek ( :x ) (with Castillo as runner-up)

SS: Furcal

3B: Ensberg (in a virtual tie with David Bell and David Wright)

C: Matheny (with Ausmus, Schneider, and Y. Molina behind him)

OF: Brady Clark, Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones (with Taverez and Edmonds close behind)

 

None of these seem too outrageous. Ensberg is sort of a default leader -- his FWS aren't spectacular, but no one stood out this year in Rolen's absence.

 

Regardless of all this -- I will be both shocked and terrified if Neifi wins the Gold Glove. He's a solid fielder, who is slowing with age.

[imb]

Wow, Wright had like 24 errors this season.

[sonofsamiam]

Wow, Wright had like 24 errors this season.

 

This is a perfect example of playing time skewing the numbers. Wright played 159 games at 3B, 10 more than any NL 3B. And he had OK range while doing so. My guess is Lowell would have led there with a full season; he's only 0.4 behind Wright, with 24 fewer games at 3rd.

 

The real question is who do we think will win the GGs?

 

My predictions:

 

1B: Lee

2B: Castillo

3B: Ensberg? (perhaps as a reward for offense, with no other obvious candidates other than Lowell, who was atrocious on offense)

SS: Vizquel (on reputation, plus his high F%)

OF: Jones, Edmonds, Beltran

C: Matheny

P: Maddux (out of habit)