The 2006 Thread, Current topic: Center Field

[USSoccer]

Not to jump the gun on the CF topic, but Corey isn't cheap anymore. He's in his Arb. years. It's not as if he's making a Murton like salary anymore.

 

That is a good point. What will he be up to next year? Close to 2 million?

 

Probably. But in keeping with the thread rules let's wait til we settle RF :D

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Not to jump the gun on the CF topic, but Corey isn't cheap anymore. He's in his Arb. years. It's not as if he's making a Murton like salary anymore.

 

That is a good point. What will he be up to next year? Close to 2 million?

 

Patterson made 2.8 million this year. My guess is that he'd get a pay cut next year to about 2.5, or a similar salary. If the Cubs are desparate to get rid of him though, I think he'll be gone before that decision has to be made.

[ZMovieman]

I agree that if we got Abreu and Giles that CF would not be a pressing need. I wouldn't condone this personally, but I thought I'd field thoughts on this topic. Bringing Pie up next year is rushing him, but with that supposed lineup, would the protection actually HELP his progress, even if he's batting 8th? Just asking.

[cubweiser03]

Giles is my #1 offseason choice. I really wouldnt mind if they overpaid for him either. If the Cubs can good production (like many here think they can) from Murton the corner outfielders as a total would still be pretty inexpensive even if you overpay for Giles. Murton wont be making more than a $1M for the next 2-3 years. $13M+$1M/2= $7M for two positions. Giles would be a great compliment to Lee and Ramirez.

 

Abreu would be a total bonus. Who does Philly have to replace him if they trade him?

[RockTheIvy]

Not to jump the gun on the CF topic, but Corey isn't cheap anymore. He's in his Arb. years. It's not as if he's making a Murton like salary anymore.

 

That is a good point. What will he be up to next year? Close to 2 million?

 

Patterson made 2.8 million this year. My guess is that he'd get a pay cut next year to about 2.5, or a similar salary. If the Cubs are desparate to get rid of him though, I think he'll be gone before that decision has to be made.

 

For 2.5 million, I'd just sign a stopgap, like Lofton. While Lofton might regress, he'd probably be cheaper, and would have an OBP above .310. God, Corey's been around for a while!

[USSoccer]

We're not at CF yet! Let's stay on topic :P

[RockTheIvy]

We're not at CF yet! Let's stay on topic :P

 

D'oh!

 

Anyone have a list of possible OFs other than the ones mentioned?

[USSoccer]

We're not at CF yet! Let's stay on topic :P

 

D'oh!

 

Anyone have a list of possible OFs other than the ones mentioned?

 

For RF? They could always pick up Burnitz's option, though they'd be fools to do so. They could try and deal for Trot Nixon, if he's available. Juan Encarnacion is out there. Yeah...

 

So, in other words, Brian Giles!!

[RockTheIvy]

We're not at CF yet! Let's stay on topic :P

 

D'oh!

 

Anyone have a list of possible OFs other than the ones mentioned?

 

For RF? They could always pick up Burnitz's option, though they'd be fools to do so. They could try and deal for Trot Nixon, if he's available. Juan Encarnacion is out there. Yeah...

 

So, in other words, Brian Giles!!

 

Yeah I'm sold!

[RynoRules]

I'm still firmly in the sign Giles camp. I'd make an early offer of 4/42 and willing to go 4/46 if necessary to get it done.

 

Wow. You'd pay him more thatn Aramis? How would you structure the deal?

 

I'd give him a four million signing bonus and then have a deal that pays him 9 million in 06 and 07 and 10 million in 08 and 09.

 

 

Why not the $10m the first 2 years of the deal, and the lesser amount when he's more likely to regress due to age?

 

And BTW, I'd probably do that deal, too, but I'd also be prepared for ARam to opt out and renegotiate his deal after 2006.

 

And what of the fact that he's pushing 36 years of age?

[CubsWin]

If Abreu really is available, wow. Trade Murton + Williams + whatever minor leaguer other than Pie for him and still sign Giles. Giles goes to LF, Abreu in RF. Leave Corey + Hairston platooning in CF and retain Nomar + Walker.

 

That gives:

 

Walker

Nomar

Giles

Lee

Abreu

Ramirez

Corey/Hairston

Barrett

 

 

Wow. Just wow. Best offense in baseball even if Corey doesn't recover. And if he does, then you're even better off. But you wouldn't need his offense at that point. Tell him to focus on the glove and anything he provides at the plate is a bonus. Maybe taking the pressure off like that would do the trick for him.

When I read that Abreu rumor, I thought the exact same thing.

 

Wow. Just wow. Any line-up that has the players to legitimately and logically have Aramis Ramirez bat 6th is okay by me.

 

If only...

[USSoccer]

I think his numbers will stay steady for 2 more seasons, and then we can expect a season similar to Alou's 2003, and then the 4th year all bets are off.

 

However, 36 isn't that old for a ballplayer anymore, and Giles shows no signs of slowing down whatsoever.

[USSoccer]

If Abreu really is available, wow. Trade Murton + Williams + whatever minor leaguer other than Pie for him and still sign Giles. Giles goes to LF, Abreu in RF. Leave Corey + Hairston platooning in CF and retain Nomar + Walker.

 

That gives:

 

Walker

Nomar

Giles

Lee

Abreu

Ramirez

Corey/Hairston

Barrett

 

 

Wow. Just wow. Best offense in baseball even if Corey doesn't recover. And if he does, then you're even better off. But you wouldn't need his offense at that point. Tell him to focus on the glove and anything he provides at the plate is a bonus. Maybe taking the pressure off like that would do the trick for him.

When I read that Abreu rumor, I thought the exact same thing.

 

Wow. Just wow. Any line-up that has the players to legitimately and logically have Aramis Ramirez bat 6th is okay by me.

 

If only...

 

Abreu is a pipe dream. Albeit a very pleasant pipe dream. :D

[RynoRules]

I think his numbers will stay steady for 2 more seasons, and then we can expect a season similar to Alou's 2003, and then the 4th year all bets are off.

 

However, 36 isn't that old for a ballplayer anymore, and Giles shows no signs of slowing down whatsoever.

 

I guess I disagree. If he wants 4 years, he gets 7-8 mill from me. I'd happily do 2 yrs at 9-10, with an option for a 3rd at 11 or so.

[USSoccer]

I think his numbers will stay steady for 2 more seasons, and then we can expect a season similar to Alou's 2003, and then the 4th year all bets are off.

 

However, 36 isn't that old for a ballplayer anymore, and Giles shows no signs of slowing down whatsoever.

 

I guess I disagree. If he wants 4 years, he gets 7-8 mill from me. I'd happily do 2 yrs at 9-10, with an option for a 3rd at 11 or so.

 

Then you have zero chance at getting him to sign.

 

I know there are risks giving a player who is 36 years old a 4 yr deal for about $44m, but Giles is simply the only player definetly available that could nearly single handedly turn the Cubs into a top 5 offense. He is that good and that valuable, and thus his market value is higher because of that, AND because he's likely the premier offensive player available this winter.

 

You try and deal him in year 3 or 4, or live with overpaying him the last 2 years of the deal, especially if it nets us a WS. He is that valuable, and I'd rather pay money than give up the precious few top prospects we have left in a deal that basically gives you a player of similar age (Abreu) and similar salary as you would end up paying Giles.

[UMFan83]

I don't think the OBP will regress with Giles. The only thing I'd be worried about is signing him for too long. This is his big contract, I'd say he'd be looking for about 4 years if not longer.

 

Regardless I think this is a much better buy then Damon. In fact if there is one free agent thats worth getting that could change the team, its Giles IMO

[mhuber92211]

I think that there is a need to be relaistic here and have a coupl eof Plan B's. This was my thought around Ibanez earlier. I honestly do not expect Giles to come to the midwest. I don't expect him to leave SD but if he does, I expect him to head up to the O.C. and fill LF for Anaheim while Anderson goes to the DH role that needs to be filled.

 

I think that Giles is an excellent option and one that would pulg a hole I am hesitant to place such a huge expectation upon his production. I think that if we spread it around more it would make better sense and give us more flexibility in the future as well.

 

With exploring trade options, you always have to have plan B's and C's. How about exploring a trade with SD in acquiring Klesko? He makes a ton of cash but that can be offset depending on the framework. I am sure that Maddux would accept a trade to SD and then the salary would wash. Besides that pipe dream, Ibanez is a viable plan B as is Kearns, Huff, Monroe, Jenkins, Burrell, Pierre. Trades will be available this offseaon. I like that route to the FA route.

[CubsWin]

I'm still firmly in the sign Giles camp. I'd make an early offer of 4/42 and willing to go 4/46 if necessary to get it done.

 

Wow. You'd pay him more thatn Aramis? How would you structure the deal?

 

I'd give him a four million signing bonus and then have a deal that pays him 9 million in 06 and 07 and 10 million in 08 and 09.

 

 

Why not the $10m the first 2 years of the deal, and the lesser amount when he's more likely to regress due to age?

 

And BTW, I'd probably do that deal, too, but I'd also be prepared for ARam to opt out and renegotiate his deal after 2006.

 

And what of the fact that he's pushing 36 years of age?

Hold on there, RR. Let's not make Brian any older than he is. According to ESPN.com, Giles was born on January 20, 1971. That makes him 34.

 

Also, from what I hear coming out of San Diego, the man is in terrific shape. He has made it through the first year of drug testing without coming up positive for any sort of steroids so, his physique is natural and thus sustainable. With the onset of greater nutritional understanding and training regimens, it is common for a baseball player to perform well into his late 30s. If the Cubs signed him to a 4 year deal, he would be 38 in the final year of his contract. That would be the only year that I would have concern about.

 

Giles isn't slowing down. Check his numbers, and make sure to adjust for park factors in San Diego. And he isn't pushing 36, not yet anyway. What he is is the hands-down, clear cut target to be the next Cubs RFer.

[CubsWin]

I think that there is a need to be relaistic here and have a coupl eof Plan B's. This was my thought around Ibanez earlier. I honestly do not expect Giles to come to the midwest. I don't expect him to leave SD but if he does, I expect him to head up to the O.C. and fill LF for Anaheim while Anderson goes to the DH role that needs to be filled.

 

I think that Giles is an excellent option and one that would pulg a hole I am hesitant to place such a huge expectation upon his production. I think that if we spread it around more it would make better sense and give us more flexibility in the future as well.

 

With exploring trade options, you always have to have plan B's and C's. How about exploring a trade with SD in acquiring Klesko? He makes a ton of cash but that can be offset depending on the framework. I am sure that Maddux would accept a trade to SD and then the salary would wash. Besides that pipe dream, Ibanez is a viable plan B as is Kearns, Huff, Monroe, Jenkins, Burrell, Pierre. Trades will be available this offseaon. I like that route to the FA route.

Just so I understand you, mhuber. You are saying that Giles is your number one option, your plan A, right?

[CubsWin]

If Abreu really is available, wow. Trade Murton + Williams + whatever minor leaguer other than Pie for him and still sign Giles. Giles goes to LF, Abreu in RF. Leave Corey + Hairston platooning in CF and retain Nomar + Walker.

 

That gives:

 

Walker

Nomar

Giles

Lee

Abreu

Ramirez

Corey/Hairston

Barrett

 

 

Wow. Just wow. Best offense in baseball even if Corey doesn't recover. And if he does, then you're even better off. But you wouldn't need his offense at that point. Tell him to focus on the glove and anything he provides at the plate is a bonus. Maybe taking the pressure off like that would do the trick for him.

When I read that Abreu rumor, I thought the exact same thing.

 

Wow. Just wow. Any line-up that has the players to legitimately and logically have Aramis Ramirez bat 6th is okay by me.

 

If only...

 

Abreu is a pipe dream. Albeit a very pleasant pipe dream. :D

I know. :cry:

 

Thus the, "if only..."

 

Okay, enough of the sadness. Back to putting it out there that the Cubs will sign Brian Giles.

[CubsWin]

I think his numbers will stay steady for 2 more seasons, and then we can expect a season similar to Alou's 2003, and then the 4th year all bets are off.

 

However, 36 isn't that old for a ballplayer anymore, and Giles shows no signs of slowing down whatsoever.

 

I guess I disagree. If he wants 4 years, he gets 7-8 mill from me. I'd happily do 2 yrs at 9-10, with an option for a 3rd at 11 or so.

RR, have you looked at Giles' numbers? Not only are they outstanding in their own right, but they are exactly what the Cubs offense has been lacking. Did I mention he bats left-handed? Has an above average arm for RF? He is a hard-nosed player who leads by example and generally keeps his mouth shut. What more do you need to hear?

 

Now that you know that he isn't 36 or even pushing that number, the likelihood of him producing his normal numbers for the next 2-3 years goes up. So if you are still not on the Brian Giles bandWGN, then who's are you on? Who is better than Giles?

[CubsWin]

I think that Giles is an excellent option and one that would pulg a hole I am hesitant to place such a huge expectation upon his production. I think that if we spread it around more it would make better sense and give us more flexibility in the future as well.

This quote makes it sound like you think it is a smarter move not to sign Giles. That he isn't your plan A.

 

The thing is, when you look closely at his numbers, his production is extremely reliable. If we were putting a "huge expectation" on Huff or Ibanez, I would agree with you. But when it comes to consistency of a high level of production, Giles legitimately falls into the same catagory with Manny Ramirez, Miguel Tejada and Alex Rodriguez.

 

Yes, all 3 of those players have different levels of ability, but each of them have produced to the same level each year for several years now. So has Brian Giles. Would you question counting heavily on Manny's production? Or Tejada's? Or A-Rod's? If not, then why question counting on Giles's?

 

He is only a year older than Ramirez. Sure, his production may slip a little bit, but he is still the best RFer available to the Cubs this year and likely next year as well. So why wait?

[USSoccer]

I think that there is a need to be relaistic here and have a coupl eof Plan B's. This was my thought around Ibanez earlier. I honestly do not expect Giles to come to the midwest. I don't expect him to leave SD but if he does, I expect him to head up to the O.C. and fill LF for Anaheim while Anderson goes to the DH role that needs to be filled.

 

I think that Giles is an excellent option and one that would pulg a hole I am hesitant to place such a huge expectation upon his production. I think that if we spread it around more it would make better sense and give us more flexibility in the future as well.

 

With exploring trade options, you always have to have plan B's and C's. How about exploring a trade with SD in acquiring Klesko? He makes a ton of cash but that can be offset depending on the framework. I am sure that Maddux would accept a trade to SD and then the salary would wash. Besides that pipe dream, Ibanez is a viable plan B as is Kearns, Huff, Monroe, Jenkins, Burrell, Pierre. Trades will be available this offseaon. I like that route to the FA route.

Just so I understand you, mhuber. You are saying that Giles is your number one option, your plan A, right?

 

mhuber,

 

The issue with dealing for an impact corner OF is that we simply don't have the trading chips to compete with other teams. We have 1 legit position prospect and a bunch of high celing guys in A. That's not the kind of ammo you'd need. Also, none of our pitchers save Pinto project to be top rotation starters. That's why Giles is the best option: it saves our few assets and buys us time to see if the class-A guys develop to the point they'd be real trading chips.

[Backtobanks]

The Dayton Daily News is reporting that Pena and/or Kearns might be available this offseason now that Griffey has proven to be able to play for the whole season. Obviously, they want pitching. If the Cubs can resign Rusch and use any combination of Rusch, Williams, Mitre, Hill, Welly, plus position players like Patterson, Walker, and prospects, I think that might solve one OF position. For free agents, Giles is the choice if we can outbid all of the other teams. The advantage of getting Kearns or Pena is that they are both young enough to fit into plans for the next 5 years.

 

When I mentioned Kearns or Pena, I didn't necessarily mean for RF. Giles is what we need for RF, but we need to be prepared for the possibility that he won't leave the West Coast. I wonder whether Murton, Kearns, or Pena can play CF. It couldn't be much worse defensively than Nomar in LF.

[rawaction]

The Dayton Daily News is reporting that Pena and/or Kearns might be available this offseason now that Griffey has proven to be able to play for the whole season. Obviously, they want pitching. If the Cubs can resign Rusch and use any combination of Rusch, Williams, Mitre, Hill, Welly, plus position players like Patterson, Walker, and prospects, I think that might solve one OF position. For free agents, Giles is the choice if we can outbid all of the other teams. The advantage of getting Kearns or Pena is that they are both young enough to fit into plans for the next 5 years.

 

When I mentioned Kearns or Pena, I didn't necessarily mean for RF. Giles is what we need for RF, but we need to be prepared for the possibility that he won't leave the West Coast. I wonder whether Murton, Kearns, or Pena can play CF. It couldn't be much worse defensively than Nomar in LF.

 

Pena can play CF decently. Murton and Kearns would struggle in CF.