The 2006 Thread, Current topic: Center Field

[AAApittsburgh]

The Dayton Daily News is reporting that Pena and/or Kearns might be available this offseason now that Griffey has proven to be able to play for the whole season. Obviously, they want pitching. If the Cubs can resign Rusch and use any combination of Rusch, Williams, Mitre, Hill, Welly, plus position players like Patterson, Walker, and prospects, I think that might solve one OF position. For free agents, Giles is the choice if we can outbid all of the other teams. The advantage of getting Kearns or Pena is that they are both young enough to fit into plans for the next 5 years.

Except, neither Kearns or Pena are very good. They would give you about the same production as Burnitz, and the idea is to upgrade RF.

[USSoccer]

The Dayton Daily News is reporting that Pena and/or Kearns might be available this offseason now that Griffey has proven to be able to play for the whole season. Obviously, they want pitching. If the Cubs can resign Rusch and use any combination of Rusch, Williams, Mitre, Hill, Welly, plus position players like Patterson, Walker, and prospects, I think that might solve one OF position. For free agents, Giles is the choice if we can outbid all of the other teams. The advantage of getting Kearns or Pena is that they are both young enough to fit into plans for the next 5 years.

 

Newspapers have been saying that for a very long time, so I take it with a pillar of salt, and I don't think either Pena or Kearns solves our OF issues. We need an established, proven OBP/SLG machine. Giles fits that.

 

Kearns or Pena would only make sense if we were entering a window of opportunity. Right now, we're smack in the middle of it, and Giles is the kind of difference maker that this offense really, really needs. We don't have the 1 or 2 years necessary to see if Pena or Kearns turn into offensive forces. As Tim says and I shamelessly coattail, there's no one player that would have as much impact as Brian Giles would. Pena and Kearns are nice players, but neither are offensively comparative to Giles.

[BigbadB]

Kearns or Pena would be of interest only if we didn't already have Murton proving he belongs in the majors or if we couldn't get Giles or Floyd.

 

On a side note, the GM in Cincinnati really blew an opportunity to upgrade their horrible pitching staff at the deadline this year, IMO.

[USSoccer]

Kearns or Pena would be of interest only if we didn't already have Murton proving he belongs in the majors or if we couldn't get Giles or Floyd.

 

On a side note, the GM in Cincinnati really blew an opportunity to upgrade their horrible pitching staff at the deadline this year, IMO.

 

I agree. He claimed it was because you can get more value for position players in the offseason, but this past trading deadline you could have had a haul for Dunn, Pena or to a lesser extent, Kearns.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm still firmly in the sign Giles camp. I'd make an early offer of 4/42 and willing to go 4/46 if necessary to get it done.

 

On the other hand, I think the rumblings about players such as Pena, Kearns, Burrell, Abreu, etc being available clearly indicate that outfielder that would help us are surely available for the right price this offseason.

Edited October 2, 2005 by vance_the_cubs_fan

[USSoccer]

I'm still firmly in the sign Giles camp. I'd make an early offer of 4/42 and willing to go 4/46 if necessary to get it done.

 

Wow. You'd pay him more thatn Aramis? How would you structure the deal?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm still firmly in the sign Giles camp. I'd make an early offer of 4/42 and willing to go 4/46 if necessary to get it done.

 

Wow. You'd pay him more thatn Aramis? How would you structure the deal?

 

I'd give him a four million signing bonus and then have a deal that pays him 9 million in 06 and 07 and 10 million in 08 and 09.

[USSoccer]

I'm still firmly in the sign Giles camp. I'd make an early offer of 4/42 and willing to go 4/46 if necessary to get it done.

 

Wow. You'd pay him more thatn Aramis? How would you structure the deal?

 

I'd give him a four million signing bonus and then have a deal that pays him 9 million in 06 and 07 and 10 million in 08 and 09.

 

 

Why not the $10m the first 2 years of the deal, and the lesser amount when he's more likely to regress due to age?

 

And BTW, I'd probably do that deal, too, but I'd also be prepared for ARam to opt out and renegotiate his deal after 2006.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm still firmly in the sign Giles camp. I'd make an early offer of 4/42 and willing to go 4/46 if necessary to get it done.

 

Wow. You'd pay him more thatn Aramis? How would you structure the deal?

 

I'd give him a four million signing bonus and then have a deal that pays him 9 million in 06 and 07 and 10 million in 08 and 09.

 

 

Why not the $10m the first 2 years of the deal, and the lesser amount when he's more likely to regress due to age?

 

And BTW, I'd probably do that deal, too, but I'd also be prepared for ARam to opt out and renegotiate his deal after 2006.

 

Usually deals escalate, so that's how I'd structure it. Also, the signing bonus could be accounted completely in the payroll of 2006, so essientially we're paying 13 million next season.

 

Ramirez could opt out, but I'd cross that bridge when the time comes.

[Tim]

If Abreu really is available, wow. Trade Murton + Williams + whatever minor leaguer other than Pie for him and still sign Giles. Giles goes to LF, Abreu in RF. Leave Corey + Hairston platooning in CF and retain Nomar + Walker.

 

That gives:

 

Walker

Nomar

Giles

Lee

Abreu

Ramirez

Corey/Hairston

Barrett

 

 

Wow. Just wow. Best offense in baseball even if Corey doesn't recover. And if he does, then you're even better off. But you wouldn't need his offense at that point. Tell him to focus on the glove and anything he provides at the plate is a bonus. Maybe taking the pressure off like that would do the trick for him.

[USSoccer]

If Abreu really is available, wow. Trade Murton + Williams + whatever minor leaguer other than Pie for him and still sign Giles. Giles goes to LF, Abreu in RF. Leave Corey + Hairston platooning in CF and retain Nomar + Walker.

 

That gives:

 

Walker

Nomar

Giles

Lee

Abreu

Ramirez

Corey/Hairston

Barrett

 

 

Wow. Just wow. Best offense in baseball even if Corey doesn't recover. And if he does, then you're even better off. But you wouldn't need his offense at that point. Tell him to focus on the glove and anything he provides at the plate is a bonus. Maybe taking the pressure off like that would do the trick for him.

 

Tim,

 

Won't the problem with dealing for Abreu be the same as dealing for Manny Ramirez? Wouldn't Philly want more ML talent than that? Also, if you deal Williams and Murton, aren't you straining you budget ahead of when Zambrano and Prior enter arbitration?

[Radar3454]

I really like Giles but he is going to be 35 when the season starts - I don't like the idea of giving him 10+ mil for more than 3 years. He does fit what we need perfectly though. If he was 32 I would be willing to break the bank for him.

[Tim]

If Abreu really is available, wow. Trade Murton + Williams + whatever minor leaguer other than Pie for him and still sign Giles. Giles goes to LF, Abreu in RF. Leave Corey + Hairston platooning in CF and retain Nomar + Walker.

 

That gives:

 

Walker

Nomar

Giles

Lee

Abreu

Ramirez

Corey/Hairston

Barrett

 

 

Wow. Just wow. Best offense in baseball even if Corey doesn't recover. And if he does, then you're even better off. But you wouldn't need his offense at that point. Tell him to focus on the glove and anything he provides at the plate is a bonus. Maybe taking the pressure off like that would do the trick for him.

 

Tim,

 

Won't the problem with dealing for Abreu be the same as dealing for Manny Ramirez? Wouldn't Philly want more ML talent than that? Also, if you deal Williams and Murton, aren't you straining you budget ahead of when Zambrano and Prior enter arbitration?

I'm counting on Cedeno backing up both MI positions in 2006, then taking over SS for Nomar in 2007. Pie takes over for Corey in CF in 2007, as well. The money saved there goes to the raises for Prior/Z. Not to mention the salary relief in that year from Wood + Maddux. I'm counting on at least one of those positions being filled from the farm.

 

$100M is a lot of money to be throwing around. We can afford several top line players for that figure if we can mix in players from the farm at the same time.

[USSoccer]

I really like Giles but he is going to be 35 when the season starts - I don't like the idea of giving him 10+ mil for more than 3 years. He does fit what we need perfectly though. If he was 32 I would be willing to break the bank for him.

 

We signed Alou at a similar age, but the difference is that Giles has always been pretty healthy, and has put up really good numbers consistently. There's no sign of him slowing down.

[Roast]

Holy Crap. If Abreu truely is available....Wow.

 

Okay, I'm gonna go set up a Poll so we can narrow down our options a little.

[RockTheIvy]

Abreu would be fantastic, but it would take the farm...screw it, sell the farm, it's worth it. Abreu is one of the top 5 players in baseball. You play him in right, then sign Giles, as Tim said, pick up Walker's option, and you really have an offense that fixes just about all of the Cubs needs. Then keep Patterson in CF, re-up with Nomar, and I believe you easily have the best offense in baseball to finally go with some of the best pitching in baseball. Damn, that's almost video gamish!

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Abreu would be fantastic, but it would take the farm...screw it, sell the farm, it's worth it. Abreu is one of the top 5 players in baseball. You play him in right, then sign Giles, as Tim said, pick up Walker's option, and you really have an offense that fixes just about all of the Cubs needs. Then keep Patterson in CF, re-up with Nomar, and I believe you easily have the best offense in baseball to finally go with some of the best pitching in baseball. Damn, that's almost video gamish!

Why anyone would want Corey back in a Cub's unifrom next year is beyond me? He was the worst player on the Cubs this year hands down. Not even Macias or Neifi were as bad.

[Roast]

Abreu would be fantastic, but it would take the farm...screw it, sell the farm, it's worth it. Abreu is one of the top 5 players in baseball. You play him in right, then sign Giles, as Tim said, pick up Walker's option, and you really have an offense that fixes just about all of the Cubs needs. Then keep Patterson in CF, re-up with Nomar, and I believe you easily have the best offense in baseball to finally go with some of the best pitching in baseball. Damn, that's almost video gamish!

Why anyone would want Corey back in a Cub's unifrom next year is beyond me? He was the worst player on the Cubs this year hands down. Not even Macias or Neifi were as bad.

 

Cheap. Defense. Potential.

 

Look, if we were able to land both Abreu AND Giles. I could play center and we'd win 95 games. Patterson would be pretty cheap, he is still a defensive stud, and he does have a pretty nice upside. Even if he falls flat on his face again, we have Abreu and Giles.

 

 

 

Also, for those interested, this is abreu's remaining salary:

 

06:$13M, 07:$15M, 08:$16M club option ($2M buyout)

[RockTheIvy]

Abreu would be fantastic, but it would take the farm...screw it, sell the farm, it's worth it. Abreu is one of the top 5 players in baseball. You play him in right, then sign Giles, as Tim said, pick up Walker's option, and you really have an offense that fixes just about all of the Cubs needs. Then keep Patterson in CF, re-up with Nomar, and I believe you easily have the best offense in baseball to finally go with some of the best pitching in baseball. Damn, that's almost video gamish!

Why anyone would want Corey back in a Cub's unifrom next year is beyond me? He was the worst player on the Cubs this year hands down. Not even Macias or Neifi were as bad.

 

Exactly what Roast said. Look, if Corey batted 8th, behind, say, Walker, Nomar, Lee, Ramirez, Abreu, Giles and Barret- things would be okay. Look at all the teams. Outside of the Red Sox or Yankees, every team has at least one low OBP guy. The Cardinals even have one, Molina. His OBP is below .300. Heck, the White Sox probably have 8 players that see the ol' .300 OBP mark in their rearview mirrors. Besides, I believe Corey isn't all that great, but I also think it's unlikely he'll be THIS bad again. But hey, if we've got an extra million, I'm all for signing Lofton.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Abreu would be fantastic, but it would take the farm...screw it, sell the farm, it's worth it. Abreu is one of the top 5 players in baseball. You play him in right, then sign Giles, as Tim said, pick up Walker's option, and you really have an offense that fixes just about all of the Cubs needs. Then keep Patterson in CF, re-up with Nomar, and I believe you easily have the best offense in baseball to finally go with some of the best pitching in baseball. Damn, that's almost video gamish!

Why anyone would want Corey back in a Cub's unifrom next year is beyond me? He was the worst player on the Cubs this year hands down. Not even Macias or Neifi were as bad.

 

Cheap. Defense. Potential.

 

Look, if we were able to land both Abreu AND Giles. I could play center and we'd win 95 games. Patterson would be pretty cheap, he is still a defensive stud, and he does have a pretty nice upside. Even if he falls flat on his face again, we have Abreu and Giles.

 

 

 

Also, for those interested, this is abreu's remaining salary:

 

06:$13M, 07:$15M, 08:$16M club option ($2M buyout)

 

Corey cheap? Even if he's @ league minimum, he's too expensive!

[Tim]

Abreu would be fantastic, but it would take the farm...screw it, sell the farm, it's worth it. Abreu is one of the top 5 players in baseball. You play him in right, then sign Giles, as Tim said, pick up Walker's option, and you really have an offense that fixes just about all of the Cubs needs. Then keep Patterson in CF, re-up with Nomar, and I believe you easily have the best offense in baseball to finally go with some of the best pitching in baseball. Damn, that's almost video gamish!

Why anyone would want Corey back in a Cub's unifrom next year is beyond me? He was the worst player on the Cubs this year hands down. Not even Macias or Neifi were as bad.

 

Cheap. Defense. Potential.

 

Look, if we were able to land both Abreu AND Giles. I could play center and we'd win 95 games. Patterson would be pretty cheap, he is still a defensive stud, and he does have a pretty nice upside. Even if he falls flat on his face again, we have Abreu and Giles.

 

 

 

Also, for those interested, this is abreu's remaining salary:

 

06:$13M, 07:$15M, 08:$16M club option ($2M buyout)

 

Corey cheap? Even if he's @ league minimum, he's too expensive!

Do you think Cantu had a good season for Tampa this year?

 

Because that's just about exactly the numbers Corey was slated to put up in 2003 when he got hurt. They're not as good as the numbers Corey was putting up in 2004 at the end of August. I really don't know what happened to Corey this year. But I'm not completely ready to give up on him as a ballplayer.

 

Unless a real upgrade such as Wilkerson can be found, I'm good with giving Corey one more shot in CF, with Hairston backing him up and Pie getting ready in AAA. But if Corey's in CF, the Cubs have to have a plan for production on both corners and in the MIF positions.

[Roast]

It would be one thing if we had low-mid production corner outfielders. Then Corey has to go, in my opinion. But with Giles and Abreu, my god. Corey could get one hit all season and we'd be fine.

[USSoccer]

The problem with selling the farm for Abreu is that we don't have much of a farm system left as far as top talent goes, and Philly will want either ML talent or top minor league talent. We don't have much of either, so I'd rather just give up money to sign Giles. Murton in left and Giles in right is good enough and lower cost, allowing us to bring in a FA P like Millwood (which Roast will let us discuss later)

[USSoccer]

Not to jump the gun on the CF topic, but Corey isn't cheap anymore. He's in his Arb. years. It's not as if he's making a Murton like salary anymore.

[RockTheIvy]

Not to jump the gun on the CF topic, but Corey isn't cheap anymore. He's in his Arb. years. It's not as if he's making a Murton like salary anymore.

 

That is a good point. What will he be up to next year? Close to 2 million?