Ron Santo on Neifi Perez

[1908]

Relaxing after work, watching TV. Okay by you?

Absolutely.

Great.

[CUBZ99]

Give neifi a little credit for playing well.

 

Why? He hasn't. He hasn't been as bad as some feared, but he's been awful. His presence in the lineup significantly hurt the team's chances. He's not a 2 hitter, he's not an 8 hitter, he's a defensive replacement with no offensive value. As for putting the ball in play, I'd love to have seen 17 more strikeouts instead of his 17 GIDP.

 

Your going to argue that his GIDP make him an awful player? ](*,) The problem with your argument is that you have nothing to back it up. Obviously Neifi is not the greatest hitter in the world but to say that he's not an 8 hitter and "significatnly hurt the team's chances is a little extreme.

 

Neifi didn't control where he hit in the batting order and if you actually look at his offensive numbers he is not nearly as bad as you make him out to be. Ranked against NL SS he is 4th in BA and 6th in OPS. He is hardly killing the Cubs chances, unless in your opinion that almost every SS in the NL is "hurting their teams chances."

 

and while neifi is not an All Star SS he has made more than his fair share of good/great defensive plays. (disclaimer -- Baker should still see what Cedeno can do :wink: )

[T2E]

Cubs hitters ranked by VORP:

 

Derrek Lee 92

Aramis Ramirez 47

Michael Barrett 29.3

Todd Walker 24.9

Jeromy Burnitz 19.4

Neifi Perez 14.3

Carlos Zambrano 8.3

Jerry Hairston 6.7

Matt Murton 5.9

Nomar Garciaparra 4.6

Greg Maddux 3.9

Jason Dubois 2.9

Ronny Cedeno 2.6

Mark Prior 2.5

Sergio Mitre 2.3

Ben Grieve 2.1

Richard Hill 0.9

Cliff Bartosh 0.9

Scott McClain 0.7

Glendon Rusch 0.4

Adam Greenberg 0.3

Mike Fontenot 0.3

Jerome Williams 0.3

Todd Wellemeyer 0.3

Henry Blanco 0.2

Kerry Wood 0.1

Michael Wuertz -0.1

Roberto Novoa -0.1

Jon Leicester -0.1

John Koronka -0.2

Todd Hollandsworth -0.3

Ryan Dempster -0.9

Enrique Wilson -1.8

Jody Gerut -2.2

Jose Macias -2.6

Matt Lawton -2.6

Corey Patterson -4.5

 

Neifi certainly isn't a great player, but he has not been awful, in fact, he has been better than a replacement player, which is what he was. And VORP does not include defense, where Neifi has been exceptional this year. The problem with this team is not Neifi.

 

That said, I would disagree with bringing him back.

[delroy lindo]

Santo is right.

 

 

I agree. Perez is not this team's problem. He's one of the pluses.

 

Is he awesome? Heck no, but he's done his job. The problem with Neifi has been Baker. Neifi is an 8 hole hitter. Not a lead off guy. Not a 2 hitter. 8.8.8.8.8. Baker refused to see it.

 

 

Neifi has a solid glove and puts the ball in play. He's pretty much done for the Cubs what he's done his entire career.

 

.278 / 9 / 47 is way more than any of us would have expected when Nomar went down.

 

What Neifi wasn't signed to do was start. While he has done admirably compared to his career numbers, he definitely wasn't supposed to have the 3rd highest # of games played (behind only Lee and Burnitz, one ahead of Ramirez).

 

Yes, Nomar went down, but since his return, Dusty has still managed to get him into 5-6 games a week, usually at Todd Walker's expense (Walker has appeared in 86 games compared to Neifi's 124).

 

Wasn't Walker disabled for 5-6 weeks?

[rocket]

not to be mean to ron, since i love him, but a good baseball analyst he ain't

[mhuber92211]

How is Dempster's VORP negative? Kinda shows that this stat isn't all its cracked up to be, at least to me.

[TheDude]

I am only ok with bringing Perez back next year if the team signs Furcal or some other SS that will definately be the clear-cut starter.

 

I don't want Perez on the team if Cedeno is the starter going into ST, because then Cedeno will not play.

[thedaymen]

What it seems a lot of this discussion is, is that we don't like the way Neifi has been used, even though he's been somewhere between slightly and much better than expected.

 

I agree with that. I get frustrated whenever Neifi comes to bat in a key situation that he's even in the game. The problem isn't Neifi's existance or hitting, its that Dusty has him confused with A-ROD.

 

Incidently, why do people insist he's a superb SS defensively? Reyes is superb. Greene is superb. Rollins is superb. Neifi isn't anywhere near them, and I would argue is below average defensively.

[frostwyrm]

What it seems a lot of this discussion is, is that we don't like the way Neifi has been used, even though he's been somewhere between slightly and much better than expected.

 

I agree with that. I get frustrated whenever Neifi comes to bat in a key situation that he's even in the game. The problem isn't Neifi's existance or hitting, its that Dusty has him confused with A-ROD.

 

Incidently, why do people insist he's a superb SS defensively? Reyes is superb. Greene is superb. Rollins is superb. Neifi isn't anywhere near them, and I would argue is below average defensively.

 

I don't think Neifi is below average defensively, he's good, but certainly not great. It is a bit irritating that some people have built him up as a Gold Glove shortstop. He's not even close.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How is Dempster's VORP negative? Kinda shows that this stat isn't all its cracked up to be, at least to me.

 

That's only offense, not pitching.

[CubbieRich]

Perez is what he is..not a starter, but one who filled in admirably for a hurt Nomar. He is a bench player and did okay. I wonder if Bobby Crosby for the A's getting hurt last night had happened on Mon. or Tues., maybe we could have dealt him to Oakland.

 

I feel that Dusty should play Cedeno full time, because we know what Perez can do. The speculation on The Score from Steve Stone is that if the Cubs acquire Furcal as a FA, the team would move Cedeno to 2nd.-letting Walker go. That would be OK with me. We just need to see what Cedeno can do for the next month.

[hardcorecubfan]

I heard Santo say today that "Neifi has had a stellar, stellar season. I haven't seen anyone play a better shortstop. He'll be back next year."

 

Maybe he accidentally overmedicated himself today? He can't be serious.[/quotI am going to agree with Ron on this one, He has had a good year, but then prefis it with FOR A BACKUP utility infielder player he has. that is where he should stay as a back-up utility infielder.

 

Why not move Neifi to third Nomar to short and if everybody is sure Walder is going to be gone then Cedeno to second?

[Chocolate Milk]

For VORP, how is the "replacement player's" value determined. Who's the replacement player? Thanks.

[neely crenshaw]

neifi has had a stellar year...for neifi. if anyone would have guessed that neifi would be pushing .280 with 500 at bats, they would have been committed! but he has. he is not nomar. in the grand scheme of baseball, his year is a rather aberage year but for neifi it is a career year. and unfortunately for the cub fans..it was one of the better years on the team. if patterson had these exact numbers we would be happy even without the pop. i don't want neifi back as a starter, i really want cedeno to play 90% of the games down the stretch but neifi has been a high spot in a very low season.

[JGalt73]

For VORP, how is the "replacement player's" value determined. Who's the replacement player? Thanks.

 

From BP's website:

 

"A replacement-level player is one who is "easily available" to any team--a AAA journeyman or end of the bench player. Replacement level is significantly below average--about 80% of average for the position. If you think of it in OPS terms, roughly 70 points of OPS below the average for the position is replacement level. "

 

Quick general VORP questions answered 2/3 way down page.

[Nobody youd want to know]

I agree with many of the posters that Neifi actually had a fairly good year, compared to expectations. 100% of the animus against him can be traced to Dusty's use of him. He's never been a leadoff hitter, yet Dusty trotted him out there 93 times, to the tune of a .253 OBP. Ugh!

 

Batting second (207 ABs), his average and SLG were actually OK, but his OBP was again a putrid .312.

 

He also batted twice in the 3-hole, and twice in the 5-hole (must've missed those games; probably were as a result of a double-switch).

 

He's obviously most comfortable in the 7 or 8 spot, where he clearly belongs. In fact, on the aggregate, he batted .315 there, with an OBP over .350!

Had Dusty just left him there, we'd be singing a much different tune about him.

[Texas Goat Farmer]

If Dusty is back (maybe I should say "since" Dusty will be back, but I am trying to remain optimistic) and Neifi is re-signed for 2006, he will see playing time that amounts to two to three games a week.

 

Furcal would not play 130 games under Dusty with Neifi on the team.

[NewUserName]

Neifi is basically Alex Gonzalez. Little range, decent glove, low OBP, streaky hitting. Completely missused by Dusty. I cant think of anything more important to the future of the Cubs than to get guys like Neifi off the roster. Its not a bash on him it is a bash on Dusty. It is very critical to the future of the Cubs for Cedeno to be given every opportunity to play NOW. Before we make a major investment on a player like frucal it would be very prudent for us to see if Cedeno could be the answer at a fraction of the cost. If past history is any help it is easy to see Neifi getting the bulk of the PT the rest of the season though.

[Careless]

Neifi is basically Alex Gonzalez. Little range, decent glove, low OBP, streaky hitting. Completely missused by Dusty. I cant think of anything more important to the future of the Cubs than to get guys like Neifi off the roster. Its not a bash on him it is a bash on Dusty. It is very critical to the future of the Cubs for Cedeno to be given every opportunity to play NOW. Before we make a major investment on a player like frucal it would be very prudent for us to see if Cedeno could be the answer at a fraction of the cost. If past history is any help it is easy to see Neifi getting the bulk of the PT the rest of the season though.

Agonz has neifi in OBP and slug this year, for the record. and he's cheaper

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

Neifi is basically Alex Gonzalez. Little range, decent glove, low OBP, streaky hitting. Completely missused by Dusty. I cant think of anything more important to the future of the Cubs than to get guys like Neifi off the roster. Its not a bash on him it is a bash on Dusty. It is very critical to the future of the Cubs for Cedeno to be given every opportunity to play NOW. Before we make a major investment on a player like frucal it would be very prudent for us to see if Cedeno could be the answer at a fraction of the cost. If past history is any help it is easy to see Neifi getting the bulk of the PT the rest of the season though.

Agonz has neifi in OBP and slug this year, for the record. and he's cheaper

 

A-Gone is not cheaper than Neifi $1.75 mill vs. $1.00 mill and he is .008 higher in OPS. Not worth the extra $750,000 this year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Neifi is basically Alex Gonzalez. Little range, decent glove, low OBP, streaky hitting. Completely missused by Dusty. I cant think of anything more important to the future of the Cubs than to get guys like Neifi off the roster. Its not a bash on him it is a bash on Dusty. It is very critical to the future of the Cubs for Cedeno to be given every opportunity to play NOW. Before we make a major investment on a player like frucal it would be very prudent for us to see if Cedeno could be the answer at a fraction of the cost. If past history is any help it is easy to see Neifi getting the bulk of the PT the rest of the season though.

Agonz has neifi in OBP and slug this year, for the record. and he's cheaper

 

A-Gone is not cheaper than Neifi $1.75 mill vs. $1.00 mill and he is .008 higher in OPS. Not worth the extra $750,000 this year.

 

Neifi has incentives that come with playing time that increase his contract up to 2.5 mil total. I'd bet that he's made up the 750k difference, since I don't know the specifics of the incentives.

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

Neifi is basically Alex Gonzalez. Little range, decent glove, low OBP, streaky hitting. Completely missused by Dusty. I cant think of anything more important to the future of the Cubs than to get guys like Neifi off the roster. Its not a bash on him it is a bash on Dusty. It is very critical to the future of the Cubs for Cedeno to be given every opportunity to play NOW. Before we make a major investment on a player like frucal it would be very prudent for us to see if Cedeno could be the answer at a fraction of the cost. If past history is any help it is easy to see Neifi getting the bulk of the PT the rest of the season though.

Agonz has neifi in OBP and slug this year, for the record. and he's cheaper

 

A-Gone is not cheaper than Neifi $1.75 mill vs. $1.00 mill and he is .008 higher in OPS. Not worth the extra $750,000 this year.

 

Neifi has incentives that come with playing time that increase his contract up to 2.5 mil total. I'd bet that he's made up the 750k difference, since I don't know the specifics of the incentives.

 

Neifi's numbers since all-star break (min 75 AB):

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=avg&minpa=75&split=182&season=2005&pos=all&hand=a&league=mlb&ageMin=17&ageMax=51

[Careless]

pretty sure neifi's full salary kicked in at 350 or so PA's. He's going to finish the season with over 500.

[ltb]

pretty sure neifi's full salary kicked in at 350 or so PA's. He's going to finish the season with over 500.

 

they said if he was the "starter," he'd be paid as one. that pretty much guarantees that he'll be given (not earn) all of his $1.5m in incentives. neifi already has 508 PAs, good enough for third highest total on the team (how's that for a sickening statistic?)