8/20 Cubs (Rusch) @ Rockies (Cook), 7:05 pm WGN

[Chris]

My cold is Corey's fault.

[OldHappyCubFan]

Maybe if somebody hits a leadoff triple, we can get the runner home from third.

 

 

3 chances ought to do it.

 

Anyone able to bring up stats, on whose stranded more runners on the Cubs, then anybody else?

[abuck1220]

Barrett has seen 2 pitches this game and is 2 for 2. Taking the first pitch everytime is not a good thing. You wait for your pitch.

 

Valid point. But when you're struggling like Corey Patterson, and trying to drive in runs, you do not swing at the first pitch at all. The guy isn't hitting well. Pitchers are throwing him garbage.

 

Rusch throws the ball away like El Duque did earlier today.

 

that's ridiculous.

[Bull]

My cold is Corey's fault.

 

The fall of man was corey's fault.

[Chris]

My cold is Corey's fault.

 

The fall of man was corey's fault.

 

Obviously.

[da bears]

And yet another good inning by the Cubs offense.

[Omar]

Why arent they patient? Jason Jennings isnt pitching..

[OldHappyCubFan]

that's ridiculous.

 

Reading Ted William's book, he says otherwise.

 

When you're struggling, you work the count into your favor, then you can expect a better pitch. In a 2-0, 3-0 count, you can almost expect a fastball to hit.

 

 

It makes plenty of sense.

[Bull]

And yet another good inning by the Cubs offense.

At least they didn't strand any runners that inning.

 

I'm outta here. See you guys tomorrow.

[abuck1220]

that's ridiculous.

 

Reading Ted William's book, he says otherwise.

 

When you're struggling, you work the count into your favor, then you can expect a better pitch. In a 2-0, 3-0 count, you can almost expect a fastball to hit.

 

 

It makes plenty of sense.

 

if the first pitch is a perfectly hittable pitch right down the middle, how is getting down in the count 0-1 going to get the count in your favor? are you just assuming that if you stand there and don't swing, the opposing pitcher is going to fall behind 3-0?

[mhuber92211]

no one is here in the game thread and no one in flash chat, odd...

[OldHappyCubFan]

if the first pitch is a perfectly hittable pitch right down the middle, how is getting down in the count 0-1 going to get the count in your favor? are you just assuming that if you stand there and don't swing, the opposing pitcher is going to fall behind 3-0?

 

Either way, every pitch is guessing. But the chances/odds/favor is that in a hitters count you're getting a meatball. Hence called "hitters count."

 

You see good hitters like Pujols, Ortiz, Manny, they work the count. DLee has worked the count for the majority of the season, and he does alot better when doing so. Watching all the replays on MLB.tv, of all the highlights, when I look at the counts when players hit homers and RBI doubles, its never 0-0.

 

Your idea is fine, when theres nobody on base. But the pitcher is going to be VERY careful when theres 2 guys on base.

Edited August 21, 2005 by OldHappyCubFan

[CaliforniaRaisin]

that's ridiculous.

 

Reading Ted William's book, he says otherwise.

 

When you're struggling, you work the count into your favor, then you can expect a better pitch. In a 2-0, 3-0 count, you can almost expect a fastball to hit.

 

 

It makes plenty of sense.

 

But if that first pitch is "your" pitch, it's likely to be a strike and you're down in the count 0-1, not ahead 1-0. You shouldn't take a first pitch at all times; a pitcher will then get an easy strike everytime. The point of the game is to get your pitch, and if it's the first pitch, I see no reason why the player shouldn't swing at it.

[abuck1220]

if the first pitch is a perfectly hittable pitch right down the middle, how is getting down in the count 0-1 going to get the count in your favor? are you just assuming that if you stand there and don't swing, the opposing pitcher is going to fall behind 3-0?

 

Either way, every pitch is guessing. But the chances/odds/favor is that in a hitters count you're getting a meatball. Hence called "hitters count."

 

You see good hitters like Pujols, Ortiz, Manny, they work the count. DLee has worked the count for the majority of the season, and he does alot better when doing so. Watching all the replays on MLB.tv, of all the highlights, when I look at the counts when players hit homers and RBI doubles, its never 0-0.

 

Your idea is fine, when theres nobody on base. But the pitcher is going to be VERY careful when theres 2 guys on base.

 

there was one guy on base.

 

and i still don't see how letting a hittable pitch ride for a called strike is going to get you ahead in the count. i'm done discussing this with you.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

if the first pitch is a perfectly hittable pitch right down the middle, how is getting down in the count 0-1 going to get the count in your favor? are you just assuming that if you stand there and don't swing, the opposing pitcher is going to fall behind 3-0?

 

Either way, every pitch is guessing. But the chances/odds/favor is that in a hitters count you're getting a meatball. Hence called "hitters count."

 

You see good hitters like Pujols, Ortiz, Manny, they work the count. DLee has worked the count for the majority of the season, and he does alot better when doing so. Watching all the replays on MLB.tv, of all the highlights, when I look at the counts when players hit homers and RBI doubles, its never 0-0.

 

Your idea is fine, when theres nobody on base. But the pitcher is going to be VERY careful when theres 2 guys on base.

 

Never? Come on, now. Just like Corey has never produced with RISP.

 

While Barret's double didn't produce an RBI, he got the double on an 0-0 count.

Edited August 21, 2005 by CaliforniaRaisin

[da bears]

this is pathetic, im outta here.

[OldHappyCubFan]

A batter is playing the game of "odds." The odds are hes NOT going to get as good of a pitch, if its the first pitch.

 

Working the count also allows you to see the pitcher better, and to possible take a walk.

 

Theres like 3 benefits to working the count, as opposed to attacking the FIRST pitch twice like Corey's done today.

 

I can understand maybe 1 time, but I know for a fact Corey didn't see "his" pitch twice in the first pitch today.

[Chris]

Pitchers are not allowed to throw a strike on the first pitch?

[OldHappyCubFan]

You guys are mainly exaggerating, and have been in anything I've said in this thread.

 

Its a simple concept really. The Cubs aren't getting on base, and they aren't working the count today.

 

The Rockies lead the league in almost every worst pitching catagory, yet we've taken a single walk today.

 

One of the problems of the Cubs is .OBP, and they're hacking at a ton of first pitches.

 

 

and i still don't see how letting a hittable pitch ride for a called strike is going to get you ahead in the count. i'm done discussing this with you.

 

Benefits of taking the first pitch

 

1) working the count towards a walk

 

2) working the count towards a hitters count, and deciding to hit in a spot

 

3) take some pitches, break down the pitcher.

 

4) in situational hitting, look for a pitch to drive to the outfield for a sac fly.

 

5) learn the pitchers aresenal.

 

Nobody can really argue that point. If it was Aramis that swung at the first pitch, I think somebody with 40 homers, 100 rbi's a year, knows when a good pitch is a good pitch.

 

But somebody hitting .230 and struggling, needs to take pitches.

Edited August 21, 2005 by OldHappyCubFan

[Laura]

no one is here in the game thread and no one in flash chat, odd...

 

Several people were in flashchat earlier, but it fizzled. I left because I can't run anything else, basically, when I run flashchat.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

A Saturday night and a poor effort by the Cubs. My guess is many people just found other things to do tonight.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

But you said a batter should take his pitch, just because it's a first pitch. That IS making the pitcher throw a strike. If it's a hitter's pitch, and he can do some damage with that pitch, he should swing at it. No matter the count. If it isn't his pitch, he should take it - even if it's going to be called a strike. You are being absolute and saying a batter must never swing at that first pitch.

[Omar]

Cubs getting shut out at Coors - :(

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Cubs getting shut out at Coors - :(

that's why they play 9 innings & not 6

[OldHappyCubFan]

But you said a batter should take his pitch, just because it's a first pitch. That IS making the pitcher throw a strike. If it's a hitter's pitch, and he can do some damage with that pitch, he should swing at it. No matter the count. If it isn't his pitch, he should take it - even if it's going to be called a strike. You are being absolute and saying a batter must never swing at that first pitch.

 

I thought I made it clear, that if its somebody thats a perienniel (sp?) All-Star, their judgement is alot better.

 

Swinging at the first pitch may be okay. But in certain situations, you do NOT swing at the first pitch.

 

Situations you don't want to do that in

 

1) bases loaded, less then 2 outs.

 

2) RISP, batters ahead of you have walked

 

3) Sac fly situation, looking for a ball to drive.

 

Sometimes a gamble will pay off, but I'd assume as a player you want to play things safe when your team needs wins, and is in the heat of a playoff chase.

 

Its all about situations. You adapt to the situation. Corey's problem, is he's not adapting. He goes to the plate every day with the same mentality and philosophy.

 

As I type this, Brenly's talking about selecting pitches. Guys like Pujols, Tejada, Vlad, Arod. These guys are VERY selective, and I can't recall the last time I saw them hack at the first pitch once, let alone twice in a game.

Edited August 21, 2005 by OldHappyCubFan