Cubs Rotation

[Fanatic3332000]

What should the Cubs do with their rotation after this season? Prior and Zambrano are keepers, Maddux idk, but with Hill and Williams struggling in both their last two starts, and the Cubs now having lost 8 games in a row, something needs to be done. The offense hasnt been there the last week, but the Cubs aren't gonna win games anyway when their pitching (rotation and bullpen) gives up 8 runs day in and day out.

[KatJ]

with Hill and Williams struggling in both their last two starts, and the Cubs now having lost 8 games in a row, something needs to be done.

 

Let's be precise here. Hill and Williams are not ML starters: they are collateral damage because there are no arms left to throw at this fiasco called the '05 Cubs.

 

There isn't a Cub fan around who isn't seeing red, but personally, I hope the team gets their collective butts handed to them this weekend. If we're going to crash, let's do it in "old-style" (double meaning intended) Cub fashion. That's about the only way I see Dustbag getting booted out of here during the offseason, much less before this season ends.

 

There needs to be MAJOR housecleaning. As to your actual question, of course you keep Z and Prior. Letting go of Prior especially = Greg Maddux, Part 2. And you keep Maddux - he can still get the big game, he put together a brilliant (for him) first half with Wood and Prior down, and the org would be jerks galore to screw him again.

 

I think we need two more bona fide starters - Wood is too much of a crap shoot health-wise, and he and Prior have had a nasty habit of going on the DL at or near the same time. Two more starters keep a decent rotation intact, and if we have six healthy starters, we can shore up the pen and/or trade for bat help come mid-season.

Edited August 10, 2005 by KatJ

[CubfaninCA]

with Hill and Williams struggling in both their last two starts, and the Cubs now having lost 8 games in a row, something needs to be done.

 

Let's be precise here. Hill and Williams are not ML starters: they are collateral damage because there are no arms left to throw at this fiasco called the '05 Cubs.

 

There isn't a Cub fan around who isn't seeing red, but personally, I hope the team gets their collective butts handed to them this weekend. If we're going to crash, let's do it in "old-style" (double meaning intended) Cub fashion. That's about the only way I see Dusty getting booted out of here during the offseason, much less before this season ends.

 

Rusch was doing fine as a starter. He had a 3.32 ERA. They need to send Hill down asap before he loses all confidence. He's getting killed. At least Williams can go 5 innings, and leave the game w/ a little dignity.

[cheapseats]

Maddux will be back. Wood, if the planets are aligned, will be back.

 

As for the fifth starter, who knows? Williams needs some work, but he was an excellent pitcher in 2003 - he was better than Matt Clement that year.

 

If the Cubs bring Dempster back, he might start, but I'd prefer to see him in the bullpen again.

 

If the Cubs bring Rusch back, he might start.

 

Don't give up on Hill yet. He'll be very good.

 

Mitre is a possibility. When he's good, he's very good, but when he's bad, he's very bad.

 

I think Hendry's plan for this season was to call up Guzman after the All-Star break, but who knows if Guzman will ever be healthy.

 

The Cubs will have money to spend, so they could always go after Burnett or pick up a guy like Millwood or Jeff Weaver (if the Dodgers haven't resigned him - I'm not sure if they've done so yet or not).

 

Really the bottom line is that our starters just need to pitch better than they have pitched this year, particularly Wood and Maddux. I can't see there being much change in our rotation next year besides the fifth starter, and I think it's likely that the fifth starter will come from within the organization.

[UBlink]

Forget worrying about their confidence. 2 bad starts by rookies in the major leagues shouldn't be entirely unexpected. Make it clear they will be continuing to start for the remainder of the year and let them worry about improving their game instead of whether or not they are going to be sent down.

 

At Texas Chris Young had like 4 or 5 bad starts from late June through all July, but primarily because Texas has no other options they kept sending him out, and this week he pitched 7 shutout innings. (Admittedly against freefalling Baltimore, but still)

[chicubs]

Cubs rotation = overrated

 

We have 2 major holes that have to be fixed somehow. There arent many FA possibilites, so Jim is going to have to get Creative.

 

Actually make that 3 major holes because:

 

1) Kerry Wood cannot be counted on to survive a whoole year.

2) Maddux is old and his era keeps going up and up and up...to 5. Hes pretty much an innings eater at this point.

3) Jerome Williams? Rich Hill? Both are not really MLB starters. Marginal #5s at best. Jerome gets the nod over Hill because quite frankly Rich is Over the Hill even at 25...Ok, terrible attempt at a joke, but you get my point. The guy is overrated because hes a midwestern guy who has a really nice curve. The fact is the guy couldnt even dominate the big ten and is having one spectactular minor league year from A to the majors at age 25. He was old at every level this year besides the bigs.

[KatJ]

Rusch was doing fine as a starter. He had a 3.32 ERA. They need to send Hill down asap before he loses all confidence. He's getting killed. At least Williams can go 5 innings, and leave the game w/ a little dignity.

 

I agree with respect to Rusch, but Dusty being Dusty apparently felt that he needed to shore up the lefties in the pen. Hell, even when he had more lefties, he STILL didn't know how to use them, and you know what/who I mean there.

 

And another thing: if Dusty played his rookie position players the way he's been playing Rich Hill & what's left of this sorry pen, Ronny Cedeno or Jason Dubois could be ROY candidates by now.

 

Okay, so that's an overstatement, but the sentiment is dead on.

[mhuber92211]

so we are determining Hill's fate on 3 ML starts? And Williams' fate on what 7 Cub Starts? Remember Williams started late this season and is really just hitting "May" for him. Hill was rushed this season and still has solid stuff.

 

First fans want to see the young players brought to the Majors and play. Then they judge them on less then a month's worth of work. Everyone at my place of business gets a 90 day probabtion. Poor comparison maybe but still, to write off a player based on such a little display of talen twould be a mistake too.

 

Besides, it hasn't actually been as bad as it may be percieved. Williams has had 5 QS out of 9 starts. Hill hasn't been shelled as bad as his stats would indicated (his HR allowed was his real drawback in the minors this year).

 

I guess I am still the eternal optimist.

[Brian]

Bobby Brownlie is going to trip on a ball and land on his right shoulder shagging fly-balls pre-game for Iowa, after recovery his velocity will return. He will not discover his returned velocity until he catches a visitors home run at Wrigley Field and tosses the ball back like tradition states. Cubs management buys his contract from AAA Iowa, and Bobby leads the Cubs to the world series, and he wins rookie of the year.....

[minnesotacubsfan]

1) FIRE LARRY ROTHSCHILD

2) FIND SOMEONE WHO WILL DEAL W/WOOD'S MECHS

3) FIND SOMEONE TO TAKE MADDUX OR THROW HIM INTO THE PEN

4) WILLIAMS + HILL/PINTO FOR 4-5, WELLE IF H/P TANK

5) KEEP DEMPSTER AS CLOSER

6) FIND A GOOD SET-UP GUY

7) I HAVE A HUGE FEAR RUSCH WILL COME BACK TO EARTH AS A STARTER, KEEP HIM IN THE PEN

 

PRIOR, Z, WOOD, WILLIAMS, H/P

[10man]

I still think Maddux will decide to retire after this season.

Don't ask me why.

[YearofDaCubs]

Sorry, but Jerome Williams is a starter in this league. Sure, he's not a 1 or 2 but he can fit perfectly as a bottom of the rotation guy. He is also young, and I'm expecting him to be even better next year. Hill on the other hand needs to go back and learn a bit. The talent is there, it's just what you do with it and expand what counts.

[XZero771679666304]

Sorry, but Jerome Williams is a starter in this league. Sure, he's not a 1 or 2 but he can fit perfectly as a bottom of the rotation guy. He is also young, and I'm expecting him to be even better next year. Hill on the other hand needs to go back and learn a bit. The talent is there, it's just what you do with it and expand what counts.

 

Jerome got really out of shape last year, and it has affected his performance and stamina. On of the things the Giants were working on and the Cubs need to keep up on is getting him back in good shape. If his conditioning improves, so will his performance, IMO.

[neely crenshaw]

my biggest worry 2 years ago is that the cubs would blow this window of oppurtunity. they did.

2004 starting rotation-wood,prior,z,clement and maddux.....maddux was the most expensive. the total cost was around25 mil.

cubs potential 2006 staff- prior,z,wood,maddux and williams...wood and maddux 22 mil in salary. we have a potentially great staff but lots and lots of questions and injury problems. they are now no longer cheap. we may pay 40+mil for 2.5 starters or worse. if wood is hurt, maddux falters...anyone else drops or goes to the pen we will pay that much for a re do on a staff with williams,hill and or mitre..so on.

we had a window where we had arguably the best staff in baseball at one of the lowest costs in baseball. we had a lot of room to fix the bullpen and the lineup but didn't now we must cut pitching or go cheap on line up...neither looks good.

[hawkeyecub]

 

Let's be precise here. Hill and Williams are not ML starters: they are collateral damage because there are no arms left to throw at this fiasco called the '05 Cubs.

 

Yes he is.

[JC]

 

Let's be precise here. Hill and Williams are not ML starters: they are collateral damage because there are no arms left to throw at this fiasco called the '05 Cubs.

 

Yes he is.

 

While he has had some limited success, the jury is still out on Williams in my book. I wouldn't bat an eye if he were moved.

[tspain]

Amazing how some on this board know Hill is washed up at age 25 after 3 starts. Simply amazing. I don't know how good he is going to be, but he will have a chance to prove he is a major league pitcher. Steve Stone said he definitely would in the rotation next year. And I will take him at his word. He deserves an opportunity at age 25 to show what he can do.

 

He is not washed up after 3 games. Come on.

 

Pastor Tom Spain

[abuck1220]

i wonder if some of the same people who claim that hill is too old are also the same people who fawn over eric patterson, who is 22 playing in low A.

 

not saying that i don't like patterson a lot, but enough w/ the 'hill is too old' stuff already.

[minnesotacubsfan]

now from the Minor Leagues forum, Guzman is pitching again. how does HE change the 2006 rotation?

 

 

Prior

Z

Wood

Williams

GUZMAN????

 

Maddux to the pen???

 

or do we package Williams for a bat w/maddux in the rotation??