If Manny Ramirez is put on waivers again this offseason....

[Cubzfan64]

would you say "to heck with his big contract" and grab him if you were in charge of the Cubs?

 

Nobody is worth that kind of money, but the closest 2 players to being worth it are Manny and Pujols.

 

If we could dump enough contracts in the offseason I would do it.

 

*keep in mind, I'm saying all this because I'm utterly sick and tired of losing season after season and want the organization to REALLY make a run at winning something for a change* - there's alot of frustration in my head right now :-(

[TB_11]

would you say "to heck with his big contract" and grab him if you were in charge of the Cubs?

 

Nobody is worth that kind of money, but the closest 2 players to being worth it are Manny and Pujols.

 

If we could dump enough contracts in the offseason I would do it.

 

*keep in mind, I'm saying all this because I'm utterly sick and tired of losing season after season and want the organization to REALLY make a run at winning something for a change* - there's alot of frustration in my head right now :-(

 

My gut reaction says no, just because his contract is a little outrageous and he's turning 34 next year. If the Cubs wanted to make a strong push for 2006 though (which I hope they don't), it would be the one impact player available in what looks to be weak FA crop this offseason.

[rawaction]

I don't know. It would be a tough call. If it was 2006, then I would easily take him for 2 years. But for 3, and him being 37-38 when it ends...I would have to think long and hard. I think he has been worth the money (not sure if he will be in 2-3 years), but signing Prior and Zambrano are much more pressing needs.

 

BTW, I think ARod at SS is worth the money too.

[woodprior04]

I wouldn't. I'd just sign Giles in the offseason. He's no Manny, but he is still capable of .300/.400/.500 and would not cost nearly as much as Manny.

[Mark_R]

Vladimir Guerrero at 14 million >>>>>>> Manny at 21 million for clarification sake.

[Cubzfan64]

Vladimir Guerrero at 14 million >>>>>>> Manny at 21 million for clarification sake.

 

I don't doubt Vlad is a better bargain at 14 mil per season, but for "clarification's" sake, if Vlad were put on waivers (which he won't be), I would take him before I would take Manny - but then again, that's not what my question was.

 

*sigh*

[Cubzfan64]

I wouldn't. I'd just sign Giles in the offseason. He's no Manny, but he is still capable of .300/.400/.500 and would not cost nearly as much as Manny.

 

Giles is "capable" of it - Manny will DO it (barring an injury that is). I'm tired of pinning my hopes on guys who have potential - give me some guys who produce.

[CarolinaCubFan]

I don't know. It would be a tough call. If it was 2006, then I would easily take him for 2 years. But for 3, and him being 37-38 when it ends...I would have to think long and hard. I think he has been worth the money (not sure if he will be in 2-3 years), but signing Prior and Zambrano are much more pressing needs.

 

BTW, I think ARod at SS is worth the money too.

 

You make a great point Raw, but Manny is a pure hitter. His numbers may decline a little, but I personally feel if the money is there to do it, you gotta try. Manny, Lee, Aram? You could definatly build around that for 06 with trades. We have young cheap talent, other clubs will have to absorb some cash to get the good ones.

 

I'm with you on Arod. Call me stupid, but I have a gut feeling Arod could be had this offseason if the Yanks tank. If I'm correct, the Rangers are paying a big chunk of Arod's contract. If we "threw" young talent at the Yanks, they might even pick up a little more. Lee, Arod, and Aram would be a stud infield. It would allow us to play Pie, Cpatt, Murton etc...

[rawaction]

 

I'm with you on Arod. Call me stupid, but I have a gut feeling Arod could be had this offseason if the Yanks tank. If I'm correct, the Rangers are paying a big chunk of Arod's contract. If we "threw" young talent at the Yanks, they might even pick up a little more. Lee, Arod, and Aram would be a stud infield. It would allow us to play Pie, Cpatt, Murton etc...

 

I think ARod could be had. I do think in order for him to be made available though, they would probably have to have other parts in place, i.e. a CF or Soriano trade. They could replace ARod's bat with the CF and 2B bat, and could go with a #2 hitter, like Bill Mueller at 3B.

[CarolinaCubFan]

 

I'm with you on Arod. Call me stupid, but I have a gut feeling Arod could be had this offseason if the Yanks tank. If I'm correct, the Rangers are paying a big chunk of Arod's contract. If we "threw" young talent at the Yanks, they might even pick up a little more. Lee, Arod, and Aram would be a stud infield. It would allow us to play Pie, Cpatt, Murton etc...

 

I think ARod could be had. I do think in order for him to be made available though, they would probably have to have other parts in place, i.e. a CF or Soriano trade. They could replace ARod's bat with the CF and 2B bat, and could go with a #2 hitter, like Bill Mueller at 3B.

 

Pitching would get Soriano. Soriano and pitching would get Arod. If you were Hendry and had to make that call, what pitchers would you offer?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Considering that we'll have Sosa's money coming off the books, yes, I'd take a shot and grab Ramirez. A middle of the order of Lee, Ramirez, Ramirez would be very formidable.

[woodprior04]

I wouldn't. I'd just sign Giles in the offseason. He's no Manny, but he is still capable of .300/.400/.500 and would not cost nearly as much as Manny.

 

Giles is "capable" of it - Manny will DO it (barring an injury that is). I'm tired of pinning my hopes on guys who have potential - give me some guys who produce.

 

Maybe I should've worded it differently. Giles is far from just a guy with potential. He has proven to be one of the best hitters in the NL since he joined the Pirates in '99.

[CubfaninCA]

Get Manny, but better get some defense for cf and rf.

[katway]

Get Manny, but better get some defense for cf and rf.

 

This year, Manny has 12 assist and 1 error. Burnitz has 5 assist and 4 errors by way of comparison. I'm not saying Manny is a great fielder, but he's not as awful as the general perception.

 

In any event, Manny will not be placed on waivers again. Boston did that 2 offseasons ago in order to try to clear some space for an ARod deal.

[neely crenshaw]

getting would mean you do not have to get big hitter at short. we could leave cedeno there and let him hit 7-8. you could also live with cpatt or murton in right. get a lead off guy for center and be set with really only spending for manny's contract. burnitz would be gone, nomar would be gone, we would be done with sammy, hairston or walker at 2nd. you have as good a 3-4-5 as anyone in the game. even with hairston with hairston in center it's still a nice lineup.

move maddux and wood you would have a lot of money(21mil) for a starter/manny and a lead off guy.

[ltb]

Get Manny, but better get some defense for cf and rf.

 

This year, Manny has 12 assist and 1 error. Burnitz has 5 assist and 4 errors by way of comparison. I'm not saying Manny is a great fielder, but he's not as awful as the general perception.

 

In any event, Manny will not be placed on waivers again. Boston did that 2 offseasons ago in order to try to clear some space for an ARod deal.

 

the assists are there since everyone runs on him because he's a terrible fielder. it's worth the gamble, usually, but everyone's going to get caught sometimes.

[Cubzfan64]

Get Manny, but better get some defense for cf and rf.

 

This year, Manny has 12 assist and 1 error. Burnitz has 5 assist and 4 errors by way of comparison. I'm not saying Manny is a great fielder, but he's not as awful as the general perception.

 

In any event, Manny will not be placed on waivers again. Boston did that 2 offseasons ago in order to try to clear some space for an ARod deal.

 

According to the Boston media, Manny has been placed on waivers at least 2 times (probably 3) since the new ownership took over. They like what he gives them offensively, but his contract is an albatross around Theo Epstein's neck that precludes them from making some other moves he would like to make. He was signed to that contract by a different ownership team and this one would like to get rid of it.

[Cubzfan64]

Get Manny, but better get some defense for cf and rf.

 

This year, Manny has 12 assist and 1 error. Burnitz has 5 assist and 4 errors by way of comparison. I'm not saying Manny is a great fielder, but he's not as awful as the general perception.

 

In any event, Manny will not be placed on waivers again. Boston did that 2 offseasons ago in order to try to clear some space for an ARod deal.

 

the assists are there since everyone runs on him because he's a terrible fielder. it's worth the gamble, usually, but everyone's going to get caught sometimes.

 

I've watched Manny and the Red Sox for 2 years now since I moved out here from Illinois and I watch A LOT of their games (I can't get WGN and I love watching baseball). Manny Ramirez is no All Star caliber OF, but I would say in comparison with other left fielders I've watched I would say he's average. I'll take an average defensive OF in LF who can provide the dominating offense he's capable of.

 

I want to add a couple guys to the team next year who are PROVEN producers - no more of this "potential" crap. If we can swing it financially, I would take Manny Ramirez in LF in a heartbeat - even if it means putting up with some of the antics.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

In any event, Manny will not be placed on waivers again. Boston did that 2 offseasons ago in order to try to clear some space for an ARod deal.

 

Manny was placed on waivers to clear up money for other reasons -- he was going to be dealt for ARod. Dan Duquette was the GM who signed him, and Theo wants to use that money elsewhere. I would not be surprised after Manny's latest episode if it happened again.

[Cubzfan64]

In any event, Manny will not be placed on waivers again. Boston did that 2 offseasons ago in order to try to clear some space for an ARod deal.

 

Manny was placed on waivers to clear up money for other reasons -- he was going to be dealt for ARod. Dan Duquette was the GM who signed him, and Theo wants to use that money elsewhere. I would not be surprised after Manny's latest episode if it happened again.

 

The only difference I can see now is that Boston may prefer trying hard to trade him in the offseason and eating some of his contract in an effort to get something of value in return - especially with the free agent market looking pretty bleak. However if they were able to move Manny, that would free up more money to re-sign Damon if that's what they want to do.

 

Hard to say what's gonna happen, but I'm tempted to bet money that Manny will not be a Red Sox next year one way or another.

[CubfaninCA]

I can see Boston trading Manny. The Cubs could send Boston Kerry Wood, Patterson to replace Damon, and Wade Murton. Jmo but I think the Cubs are in the process of forcing Wood out by putting him in the pen. If the Cubs could move Wood, they should still have enough money for Giles. Put Pie in cf and Cedeno at SS. Get the leadoff man from 2b. I'm not sure if they want to bring Hairston back?? With the way things are going, it looks like Dusty could be gone, so perhaps Hairston will be back.

 

Lineup: 2b. Hairston, rf. Giles, lf. Manny, 1b. Lee, 3b. ARam, cf. Pie, ss. Cedeno, c. Barrett

 

2-5 would be lethal.

 

Starters. Z, Prior, Maddux, Williams and Hill

 

With the way the free agent market is shaping up, looks like few starters will be available, and I wouldn't trust Wood as a starter.

[Proven Veteran]

I can see Boston trading Manny. The Cubs could send Boston Kerry Wood, Patterson to replace Damon, and Wade Murton. Jmo but I think the Cubs are in the process of forcing Wood out by putting him in the pen. If the Cubs could move Wood, they should still have enough money for Giles. Put Pie in cf and Cedeno at SS. Get the leadoff man from 2b. I'm not sure if they want to bring Hairston back?? With the way things are going, it looks like Dusty could be gone, so perhaps Hairston will be back.

 

Lineup: 2b. Hairston, rf. Giles, lf. Manny, 1b. Lee, 3b. ARam, cf. Pie, ss. Cedeno, c. Barrett

 

2-5 would be lethal.

 

Starters. Z, Prior, Maddux, Williams and Hill

 

With the way the free agent market is shaping up, looks like few starters will be available, and I wouldn't trust Wood as a starter.

 

I'd keep walker at 2B.

[RynoRules]

I am bumping this again b/c to me, its a no-brainer.

 

Who would you deal to get Manny if he were available? I'd be willing to give up a lot: he's only 32 and has a career OPS of over 1.100, including a career OBP of over .400. His alleged defensive issues are well documented, but you know what, the Sox managed to win a title with him in LF 6 out of 7 days a week. If you hae a CF with good range, you can mitigate that problem.

 

Would you trade Patterson, Rich Hill, and Pinto to get him? Would the Sox (they might want another position player)? The Sox certainly need young pitching, however, and as we know, Theo (like his mentor) values payroll flexibility.

[Cubzfan64]

I am bumping this again b/c to me, its a no-brainer.

 

Who would you deal to get Manny if he were available? I'd be willing to give up a lot: he's only 32 and has a career OPS of over 1.100, including a career OBP of over .400. His alleged defensive issues are well documented, but you know what, the Sox managed to win a title with him in LF 6 out of 7 days a week. If you hae a CF with good range, you can mitigate that problem.

 

Would you trade Patterson, Rich Hill, and Pinto to get him? Would the Sox (they might want another position player)? The Sox certainly need young pitching, however, and as we know, Theo (like his mentor) values payroll flexibility.

 

Yes I would trade Patterson, HIll and Pinto for Manny. No I don't think the Sox would do that, but who knows. They may not need as much young pitching as one would think - they have at least 2-3 young arms in the minors that project to be at least #3 starters and potentially better than that and I think a couple of those guys are less than a year away.

 

My gut feeling is that it would take D Lee for us to get Manny, but again alot of it depends on how badly Boston wants to get out from under Manny's contract - perhaps we could get him cheapy as far as talent goes.

 

Either way, I agree with you also that the downsides of getting Manny (average defense in LF and his additional "problems" he brings to the game like lack of hustle at times etc...) are far outweighed by the awesome production he would provide to this team.

 

If the Cubs were rebuilding starting next year I don't think I would bother with Manny, but if we can get ourselves into a position with the rest of the team to SERIOUSLY contend next year, I'd make a push for Manny and let him be the back that we climb onto.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think it would be rather easy to acquire Manny if we so desired. The Red Sox would love to be rid of that contract. For what they're paying Manny they could sign Burnett and Giles and still have some left over.