Another choice for manager?

[ToupeeOnFire]

Speaking of managerial possibilities, why hasn't this guy gotten another chance to manage a team.

 

He has 518 winning percentage to go with two World Series rings.

 

At the time, many of the complaints about Cito Gaston were some of the same you currently hear about Dusty Baker.

 

In fact, after a quick Google search I found this.

 

Relevant quote...

 

No, he wasn't getting respect because he did not know how to manage a

team well, especially a pitching staff, and he discouraged his hitters

from walking. Gaston would rather have seen his players hit fly outs all

game long than take walks, and hit singles to prolong an inning. Plus,

he HATED young players. He'd rather play a washed-up vet (Carter,

Sprague, Sierra, Samuel) than a promising youngster, and the Jays are

and will suffer for it for the next year or so. Glad he's gone!

 

Hmmm, sounds like a manager we all know and love. The points is - and I don't know if these complaints were legitimate or not - there is no such thing as a perfect manager. I just want somebody who is willing to develop and stick with young players; who doesn't play favorites amongst his "pet" players, even to the detriment of the team; who stresses patience at the plate and the value of a walk, while conversely preaching the importance of throwing strikes and keeping the pitch count down amongst the hurlers ; who won't bat sub-.300 OBP hitters at the top of the order (or keep them in the everyday line-up, period); who won't tolerate sloppy play; and a manager who uses common sense when it comes to the starting pitchers -- knowing how long to leave them in, when to take them out, and not letting them throw 120 pitches over 5 innings on a hot day -- in other words, I want a manager who worries less about burning out his bullpen and more about the long term health of his starters. That's not too much to ask, is it?

[CuseCubFan69]

Cito is a lot like Dusty....only differnce was IMO is that he never rested his starter and the bench hardly played.

[Outshined_One]

Cito is a lot like Dusty....only differnce was IMO is that he never rested his starter and the bench hardly played.

 

Scratch his name off the list, then.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Cito is a lot like Dusty....only differnce was IMO is that he never rested his starter and the bench hardly played.

 

Scratch his name off the list, then.

 

Definitely. I still haven't hear a reason why Davey wouldn't be a good choice.

 

My list is starting to look like this:

 

1. Fredi Gonzalez

2. Davey Johnson

3. Larry Dierker

[ToupeeOnFire]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Bobby Valentine.

 

And for the heck of it, a few other names to throw out there: Lou Piniella, Mike Hargrove, Gene Lamont.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Bobby Valentine.

 

And for the heck of it, a few other names to throw out there: Lou Piniella, Mike Hargrove, Gene Lamont.

 

Bobby isn't the type of manager I would desire. Lou has a stronger fetish for veterans than Dusty has. Hargrove might be an interesting choice. You'll have to convince me on Lamont.

[Mad Ducks]

Davey is abrasive and tends to rub people the wrong way most of the time. He is very stuck in his ways. That being said, I would rather have Bobby V. He is an ass but gets results. I don't have to like the manager, he just needs to win.

[treebird]

I've always kind of liked Valentine.

[Mark_R]

Just curious but why is a lot of the names we're mentioning other teams' retreads?

[Fro]

Think outside the box and hire the best collegiate coach you can find.

 

http://www.texassports.com/index.phps=&change_well_id=2&url_article_id=159

 

Just for an example. Give me someone with a high winning percentage, developed a lot of MLB players, and won a handful of College World Series over a MLB retread or taking a chance on someone's bench coach anyday. Get a guy who knows how to manage his players and develop the young kids once they come up.

Edited August 7, 2005 by Fro

[ConstableRabbit]

I've always kind of liked Valentine.

 

I don't really know much about him. He always seemed ok as an analyst, and he's certainly had success, but can anyone fill my in as to what his managing philosphy is (was)?

[Guest]

Think outside the box and hire the best collegiate coach you can find.

 

http://www.texassports.com/index.phps=&change_well_id=2&url_article_id=159

 

Just for an example. Give me someone with a high winning percentage, developed a lot of MLB players, and won a handful of College World Series over a MLB retread or taking a chance on someone's bench coach anyday. Get a guy who knows how to manage his players and develop the young kids once they come up.

 

 

I am a BIG 12 guy, but if I would love to see any NCAA guy get a chance to manage in the bigs, I'd love to see what Gene Stephenson could do.

[CuseCubFan69]

I don't remember any coach out of college being chosen to be a MLB manager. Now, they had a college of coaches but I don't think that's quite the same thing. I'm sure they would need to have MLB playing experience. I've often read that players seem to repect a guy "Who has been there" over a guy that might be a heck of a lot better. Players can be kind of stupid that way.

[rawaction]

What I want from a manager:

 

-Good strategist

-Knows how to use bench (I think it's important because of the day games)

-Can incorporate rookies and young players

-Can put players in where they can be successful

-Can communicate and discipline

-Not be afraid to except blame

-Can maximize a pitching staff

 

I don't need #1. Every manager will play hunches and lame matchups. They all gamble. If a manager gives you #4, then that's all you can ask for.

 

As for the rest, I think Dusty can do #2 well if he has a veteran bench. For some reason he feels vets need regular work to stay sharp, while rookies learn from watching. I think it's the pitching coach's job to maximize a pitching staff. I do think a manager has to relinquish some responsibility and let the PC advise him on when to pull guys and the moves to make.

[CarolinaCubFan]

What I want from a manager:

 

-Good strategist

-Knows how to use bench (I think it's important because of the day games)

-Can incorporate rookies and young players

-Can put players in where they can be successful

-Can communicate and discipline

-Not be afraid to except blame

-Can maximize a pitching staff

 

I agree, all are traits of a good manager. I'd love to see someone like Tim get a shot. This is a "job" for him and he tends to incourage posters, rather than just spout out opinions. He has a great knowledge of our entire system and knows the game. Some of the names floating around are okay, but do they know this team like Tim? There are actually a couple of posters here at NSBB I'd highly consider.

[treebird]

What I want from a manager:

 

-Good strategist

-Knows how to use bench (I think it's important because of the day games)

-Can incorporate rookies and young players

-Can put players in where they can be successful

-Can communicate and discipline

-Not be afraid to except blame

-Can maximize a pitching staff

 

I agree, all are traits of a good manager. I'd love to see someone like Tim get a shot. This is a "job" for him and he tends to incourage posters, rather than just spout out opinions. He has a great knowledge of our entire system and knows the game. Some of the names floating around are okay, but do they know this team like Tim? There are actually a couple of posters here at NSBB I'd highly consider.

 

more dap for da tree plz

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

What I want from a manager:

 

-Good strategist

-Knows how to use bench (I think it's important because of the day games)

-Can incorporate rookies and young players

-Can put players in where they can be successful

-Can communicate and discipline

-Not be afraid to except blame

-Can maximize a pitching staff

 

I agree, all are traits of a good manager. I'd love to see someone like Tim get a shot. This is a "job" for him and he tends to incourage posters, rather than just spout out opinions. He has a great knowledge of our entire system and knows the game. Some of the names floating around are okay, but do they know this team like Tim? There are actually a couple of posters here at NSBB I'd highly consider.

 

more dap for da tree plz

 

Tree if you get to be manager, can I be the thirdbase coach?

[CarolinaCubFan]

What I want from a manager:

 

-Good strategist

-Knows how to use bench (I think it's important because of the day games)

-Can incorporate rookies and young players

-Can put players in where they can be successful

-Can communicate and discipline

-Not be afraid to except blame

-Can maximize a pitching staff

 

I agree, all are traits of a good manager. I'd love to see someone like Tim get a shot. This is a "job" for him and he tends to incourage posters, rather than just spout out opinions. He has a great knowledge of our entire system and knows the game. Some of the names floating around are okay, but do they know this team like Tim? There are actually a couple of posters here at NSBB I'd highly consider.

 

more dap for da tree plz

 

Tree if you get to be manager, can I be the thirdbase coach?

 

Only if you change that Avitar Vance. It reminds me of Kim.

[SCCubbieFAN]

Think outside the box and hire the best collegiate coach you can find.

 

OK then, how about Ray Tanner? He played in the bigs and now coaches the SC Gamecocks. Hasn't won a CWS yet but has had a great deal of success at SC.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think in baseball especially that there are some key differences between the pro and college game. I'd be very skeptical about hiring a college coach to be manager of a pro team.

[CubfaninCA]

Bring in Girardi. Hasn't he spent lots of time w/ Torre??

 

I'm so sick of Dusty that I'm about ready to root for a 40 game losing streak, which would hopefully ensure the final nail in that fraud's coffin.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Bring in Girardi. Hasn't he spent lots of time w/ Torre??

 

I'm so sick of Dusty that I'm about ready to root for a 40 game losing streak, which would hopefully ensure the final nail in that fraud's coffin.

 

Girardi has spent one season as the Yankees bench coach and has played for Torre. I still think Gonzalez has a more impressive resume'. I'd put Girardi as fourth or fifth on my list.

[IowaCubsFan]

Why not Grady Little?

[CuseCubFan69]

What I want from a manager:

 

-Good strategist

-Knows how to use bench (I think it's important because of the day games)

-Can incorporate rookies and young players

-Can put players in where they can be successful

-Can communicate and discipline

-Not be afraid to except blame

-Can maximize a pitching staff

 

I don't need #1. Every manager will play hunches and lame matchups. They all gamble. If a manager gives you #4, then that's all you can ask for.

 

As for the rest, I think Dusty can do #2 well if he has a veteran bench. For some reason he feels vets need regular work to stay sharp, while rookies learn from watching. I think it's the pitching coach's job to maximize a pitching staff. I do think a manager has to relinquish some responsibility and let the PC advise him on when to pull guys and the moves to make.

 

The PC advises him but it's the managers decision to pull him or not. If I'm the manager I do not want my PC to tell me when to take a pitcher out, I'll listen to what he has to say and then make my decision.