Hypothetical finish to the season and offseason moves

[LuvChicagoSports]

Let's say just for the sake of an argument that the Cubs absolutey tank the rest the season finish in 4th well below .500. (this won't happen because this team isn't consistent with anything be it winning or losing.) Ok, so we had a absolutely dismal finish to the season and shi*t starts to hit the wall. Dusty gets shown the door along with all of the coaches except Spier because he has done a FANTASTIC job as the third base coach. The Cubs go out and land Dierker, Gonzalez, or Girardi who seem to be guys of choice. This is obviouly all hypothetical, but lets say Kerry has sucessful surgery and they can actually count on him as part of the rotation. Rotation looks like this.

 

1. Prior

2. Wood

3. Maddux

4. Zambrano (really the 3 but respect must be given to Maddux and Wood has seniority)

5. Williams

 

I think Rusch would be a good starter, but his value could be used in a trade this off-season. Teams are always looking to add a starter especially someone from the left side and the Cubs could probably get more for him than Williams. To help fix the bullpen, we use some of the new Sammy money and go get Billy Wagner to close. Move Dempster to the eight inning. Other 4 guys maybe 5 depends on what the new manager would want look like this.

 

Williamson

Novoa- has good potential if used right

Ohman- very good against lefties and can still get better

Wuertz- was very good early in the season, I think Dusty overused him and now his arm is just outta gas

another lefty specialist to fill the last role

 

That would be a fairly good pitching staff and if the right manager was given the reigns it could prove to be very effective. Now we move to the offense. First and foremost the Cubs biggest glaring need is someone at the top of the order. It is a MUST to find that as we knew it to be a hole in both the 04 and 05 seasons and has proved to be costly. Cubs go out and make a splash by getting Pierre who ESPN insider says is a FA after this season. If not him we go and get Damon. Both are out there and it is a huge need for us so we make the move. While Burnitz has been better than expected he really isn't a solution to the problem so we bid him farewell. Pierre is moved to left field if Corey seems to have worked out some of the problems he was having. Take a look at the team on the south side of town. They have the lead off man in left because the better defensive player is Rowand even though he is the better offensive middle of the lineup guy like Corey. New right fielder is Austin Kearns. Hendry really likes him, and while Dunn would be nice he would cost WAY too much to get and defense is pretty bad anyway. We let Nomar walk unless he signs a cheap deal, probably not gonna happen so Cedeno is opening day starter. Barrett gets the nod from the new manager and gets a rejuvinated confidence because he no longer has to hit eigth and gets put into an rbi spot. Opening day lineup looks like this

 

1. Pierre LF

2. Walker 2b

3. Lee 1b

4. Ramirez 3b

5. Kearns RF

6. Patterson CF

7. Barrett C

8. Cedeno SS

 

Defense is upgraded up the middle with Patterson back in center and Cedeno at short. Walker has played better than advertised defensively and is a perfect 2 hole hitter so we live with the average defense at best. If Barrett fails to produce the offensive numbers from 04 he is benched and Blanco becomes the everyday player because of his superior defense, but lets just say Barrett finds his stroke again for optomistic purposes. With the two table setters up top we would definately have more scoring opprotunities. Aramis hits 4th because a new manager understands that you don't have to go r-l-r if your better hitter is the righty. Aramis hits right handers just fine. Kearns and Patterson can be flip flopped in the 5 and 6 hole, but lets just say Kearns in the 5 hole for now because of peoples negative feelings towards Corey until he proves he has regained his 03 form.

 

Let me know what you guys think. I think this would be a MUCH more productive lineup and the pitching staff gets solidified because you bring in a real closer which allows everyone else to move down a slot. The wild card of course is if Kerry can stay healthy or not, but you make a back up plan so you are prepared for him to go down. Kerry is not a front line guy for us anyway. His numbers the past 2 seasons are pathetic. Z and Prior are 1 and 2 as far as starters go realistically. Anyway I know this was long, but as I get more and more devastated by the disgusting product I see on the field everyday I have to start looking towards next season. Just curious what all you other faithful fans think about this.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm not sure the offense is upgraded at all in that scenario. There's the potential for it to be good, but expecting it to be significantly better than this year is a bit of a stretch.

[neely crenshaw]

i don't know if it's better but it would be much more consistent. my choice would be if we go with a cedeno type at short(or furcal) we can't have 2 outfielders like pierre and freel. i like them both but that would mean we are depending on corey for big numbers and we need him to be a complimentary player not the big bopper. it also means that lee and aram must have big years again. i am not sure we will ever see numbers like this from lee again. no knock on lee but those are ted williams like numbers! i like the staff..but we can't count on them and with this offense we would be depending on them to be healthy all year, if any go down for any number of games we could be done again.

if we could have wood,z and prior be themselves all year we could do this lineup easily. it is a possibly great defense which would maginfy the pitching- much like atlanta did in the 90's. a couple big boppers and guys that get on and play defense. the difference is that galvine,smoltz and maddux simply never missed starts or had bad years.

[rawaction]

Bring back this current team, exactly as it is right now.....and I honestly think the Cubs would be vastly improved just by having a better bench and bullpen. I'm not convinced that Dusty WON'T be here, and if he's gonna continually play the bench guys too much and not put the most effective team on the field, the best thing is to have a team that is better up and down. Don't give him a team where he can start Hollandsworth, Perez, and Macias. Don't give him a pen where he has 1 go to guy that he wears out by the end of June.

 

Go out and get a BJ Ryan, Rafael Betancourt, and add them to Williamson, Dempster, whoever.

 

Go out and get guys on the bench who will at least take a walk when they are called on to play in case of an injury. Go get a Mark Sweeney, Matt Stairs, Frank Menechino, Russell Branyan.

[USSoccer]

Bring back this current team, exactly as it is right now.....and I honestly think the Cubs would be vastly improved just by having a better bench and bullpen. I'm not convinced that Dusty WON'T be here, and if he's gonna continually play the bench guys too much and not put the most effective team on the field, the best thing is to have a team that is better up and down. Don't give him a team where he can start Hollandsworth, Perez, and Macias. Don't give him a pen where he has 1 go to guy that he wears out by the end of June.

 

Go out and get a BJ Ryan, Rafael Betancourt, and add them to Williamson, Dempster, whoever.

 

Go out and get guys on the bench who will at least take a walk when they are called on to play in case of an injury. Go get a Mark Sweeney, Matt Stairs, Frank Menechino, Russell Branyan.

 

There was an old thread about "Dusty Proofing" the team. Unfortunatly Hendry does not do anyone any favors, as he's provided Baker with bad alternatives to young, cheap productive players at every turn, full well knowing Baker's managerial tendencies.

 

That said, if Baker is to be back in 2006 the team has to be put together more intelligently than this year's bunch, and I hope pressure mounts from fans and media to do just that. Rip them in the media, rip them at the convention, whatever, just ensure that Baker cannot use anyone as a crutch in 2006 if he must be here.

[YearofDaCubs]

We should resign Dempster to be our closer that way we have Williamson and Dempster as out 1-2 punch. They are both good especially WIlliamson, he's lights out. At first I was against signing Giles but there really isnt anything out there. If we can sign him to a 3 year deal , let's do it. Burnitz? See-ya. Lawton wouldnt be too bad but I would like to see Murton start in RF. We have a problem at 2B though with both Walker and Hairston that's a tough decision. I could care less about Nomar since he has done nothing this year for us, and he would be an injury risk. Cedeno starting? Why not. If we resign Lawton then I say Hairston has to go, if not then Walker has to. THis is what I would like to see.

 

Scenario 1

 

Hairston

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Giles

Barrett

Patterson

Cedeno

PITCHER

 

Scenario 2

 

Lawton

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Giles

Barrett

Patterson

Cedeno

PITCHER

 

Not exactly all-star lineups but probably good enough if are pitching can stay healthy.

 

I think our bull-pen can be really good next year. I think Ohman, Novoa, and Wuertz are good. Add them with WIlliamson and DEmspter and you have a solid BP.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Bring back this current team, exactly as it is right now.....and I honestly think the Cubs would be vastly improved just by having a better bench and bullpen. I'm not convinced that Dusty WON'T be here, and if he's gonna continually play the bench guys too much and not put the most effective team on the field, the best thing is to have a team that is better up and down. Don't give him a team where he can start Hollandsworth, Perez, and Macias. Don't give him a pen where he has 1 go to guy that he wears out by the end of June.

 

Go out and get a BJ Ryan, Rafael Betancourt, and add them to Williamson, Dempster, whoever.

 

Go out and get guys on the bench who will at least take a walk when they are called on to play in case of an injury. Go get a Mark Sweeney, Matt Stairs, Frank Menechino, Russell Branyan.

 

There was an old thread about "Dusty Proofing" the team. Unfortunatly Hendry does not do anyone any favors, as he's provided Baker with bad alternatives to young, cheap productive players at every turn, full well knowing Baker's managerial tendencies.

 

That said, if Baker is to be back in 2006 the team has to be put together more intelligently than this year's bunch, and I hope pressure mounts from fans and media to do just that. Rip them in the media, rip them at the convention, whatever, just ensure that Baker cannot use anyone as a crutch in 2006 if he must be here.

 

I just don't see the point in having to "Dusty-proof" a team. Often times these aged veterans are great bench options to young players. Their experience helps them in coming off the bench and being ready to play. The problem, as we have all seen, is that Dusty uses them too often and in bad situations when better options are available. I don't want us to have to sacrifice a decent bench so that Dusty can manage this team. The best option is simple and that's to replace the simpleton that's managing this team.

[treebird]

Bring back this current team, exactly as it is right now.....and I honestly think the Cubs would be vastly improved just by having a better bench and bullpen. I'm not convinced that Dusty WON'T be here, and if he's gonna continually play the bench guys too much and not put the most effective team on the field, the best thing is to have a team that is better up and down. Don't give him a team where he can start Hollandsworth, Perez, and Macias. Don't give him a pen where he has 1 go to guy that he wears out by the end of June.

 

Go out and get a BJ Ryan, Rafael Betancourt, and add them to Williamson, Dempster, whoever.

 

Go out and get guys on the bench who will at least take a walk when they are called on to play in case of an injury. Go get a Mark Sweeney, Matt Stairs, Frank Menechino, Russell Branyan.

 

There was an old thread about "Dusty Proofing" the team. Unfortunatly Hendry does not do anyone any favors, as he's provided Baker with bad alternatives to young, cheap productive players at every turn, full well knowing Baker's managerial tendencies.

 

That said, if Baker is to be back in 2006 the team has to be put together more intelligently than this year's bunch, and I hope pressure mounts from fans and media to do just that. Rip them in the media, rip them at the convention, whatever, just ensure that Baker cannot use anyone as a crutch in 2006 if he must be here.

 

I just don't see the point in having to "Dusty-proof" a team. Often times these aged veterans are great bench options to young players. Their experience helps them in coming off the bench and being ready to play. The problem, as we have all seen, is that Dusty uses them too often and in bad situations when better options are available. I don't want us to have to sacrifice a decent bench so that Dusty can manage this team. The best option is simple and that's to replace the simpleton that's managing this team.

 

if dusty appeared to have a big positive influence on players by bringing us awesome chemistry and tricking crappy guys into playing well and allowing us to bring in guys who are supposedly bad influences who act good with dusty around, it might make sense to do this. however, since none of that stuff happens, it doesn't make sense to acknowledge dusty's shortcomings to the point that you have to structure your roster in weird ways and not just fire him.

[USSoccer]

Bring back this current team, exactly as it is right now.....and I honestly think the Cubs would be vastly improved just by having a better bench and bullpen. I'm not convinced that Dusty WON'T be here, and if he's gonna continually play the bench guys too much and not put the most effective team on the field, the best thing is to have a team that is better up and down. Don't give him a team where he can start Hollandsworth, Perez, and Macias. Don't give him a pen where he has 1 go to guy that he wears out by the end of June.

 

Go out and get a BJ Ryan, Rafael Betancourt, and add them to Williamson, Dempster, whoever.

 

Go out and get guys on the bench who will at least take a walk when they are called on to play in case of an injury. Go get a Mark Sweeney, Matt Stairs, Frank Menechino, Russell Branyan.

 

There was an old thread about "Dusty Proofing" the team. Unfortunatly Hendry does not do anyone any favors, as he's provided Baker with bad alternatives to young, cheap productive players at every turn, full well knowing Baker's managerial tendencies.

 

That said, if Baker is to be back in 2006 the team has to be put together more intelligently than this year's bunch, and I hope pressure mounts from fans and media to do just that. Rip them in the media, rip them at the convention, whatever, just ensure that Baker cannot use anyone as a crutch in 2006 if he must be here.

 

I just don't see the point in having to "Dusty-proof" a team. Often times these aged veterans are great bench options to young players. Their experience helps them in coming off the bench and being ready to play. The problem, as we have all seen, is that Dusty uses them too often and in bad situations when better options are available. I don't want us to have to sacrifice a decent bench so that Dusty can manage this team. The best option is simple and that's to replace the simpleton that's managing this team.

 

if dusty appeared to have a big positive influence on players by bringing us awesome chemistry and tricking crappy guys into playing well and allowing us to bring in guys who are supposedly bad influences who act good with dusty around, it might make sense to do this. however, since none of that stuff happens, it doesn't make sense to acknowledge dusty's shortcomings to the point that you have to structure your roster in weird ways and not just fire him.

 

True, but do you really see Baker being fired?

[YearofDaCubs]

Bring back this current team, exactly as it is right now.....and I honestly think the Cubs would be vastly improved just by having a better bench and bullpen. I'm not convinced that Dusty WON'T be here, and if he's gonna continually play the bench guys too much and not put the most effective team on the field, the best thing is to have a team that is better up and down. Don't give him a team where he can start Hollandsworth, Perez, and Macias. Don't give him a pen where he has 1 go to guy that he wears out by the end of June.

 

Go out and get a BJ Ryan, Rafael Betancourt, and add them to Williamson, Dempster, whoever.

 

Go out and get guys on the bench who will at least take a walk when they are called on to play in case of an injury. Go get a Mark Sweeney, Matt Stairs, Frank Menechino, Russell Branyan.

 

There was an old thread about "Dusty Proofing" the team. Unfortunatly Hendry does not do anyone any favors, as he's provided Baker with bad alternatives to young, cheap productive players at every turn, full well knowing Baker's managerial tendencies.

 

That said, if Baker is to be back in 2006 the team has to be put together more intelligently than this year's bunch, and I hope pressure mounts from fans and media to do just that. Rip them in the media, rip them at the convention, whatever, just ensure that Baker cannot use anyone as a crutch in 2006 if he must be here.

 

I just don't see the point in having to "Dusty-proof" a team. Often times these aged veterans are great bench options to young players. Their experience helps them in coming off the bench and being ready to play. The problem, as we have all seen, is that Dusty uses them too often and in bad situations when better options are available. I don't want us to have to sacrifice a decent bench so that Dusty can manage this team. The best option is simple and that's to replace the simpleton that's managing this team.

 

if dusty appeared to have a big positive influence on players by bringing us awesome chemistry and tricking crappy guys into playing well and allowing us to bring in guys who are supposedly bad influences who act good with dusty around, it might make sense to do this. however, since none of that stuff happens, it doesn't make sense to acknowledge dusty's shortcomings to the point that you have to structure your roster in weird ways and not just fire him.

 

True, but do you really see Baker being fired?

I think it's possible. But it could happen mid-season next year which is way too long.

[mhuber92211]

The Cubs go out and land Dierker, Gonzalez, or Girardi who seem to be guys of choice.

 

Who is Gonzalez? Maybe its too early in the morning for me but I seem to be swinging and missing at this name.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The Cubs go out and land Dierker, Gonzalez, or Girardi who seem to be guys of choice.

 

Who is Gonzalez? Maybe its too early in the morning for me but I seem to be swinging and missing at this name.

 

Fredi Gonzalez. He's the thirdbase coach for the Atlanta Braves.

 

Here's a link to his bio.

 

The Cubs interviewed him before hiring Baker.

 

See here.

 

Hendry also interviewed Bob Melvin, Ken Macha, Buck Showalter and Fredi Gonzalez, but it was no secret Baker was the man the Cubs wanted and that's why they waited, to see if he would leave the Giants.

 

 

What's really depressing is that all four of those guys would have been better options than Baker.

[Exile on Waveland]

The Cubs go out and land Dierker, Gonzalez, or Girardi who seem to be guys of choice.

 

Who is Gonzalez? Maybe its too early in the morning for me but I seem to be swinging and missing at this name.

 

Fredi Gonzalez. He's the thirdbase coach for the Atlanta Braves.

 

Here's a link to his bio.

 

The Cubs interviewed him before hiring Baker.

 

See here.

 

Hendry also interviewed Bob Melvin, Ken Macha, Buck Showalter and Fredi Gonzalez, but it was no secret Baker was the man the Cubs wanted and that's why they waited, to see if he would leave the Giants.

 

 

What's really depressing is that all four of those guys would have been better options than Baker.

 

That list is very depressing. I wanted Showalter or Macha, now, I think Gonzalez would be a great choice.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

My reasons for Gonzalez are these:

 

1. First he's learned in the best run organization over the last few years. I doubt we can get Bobby Cox, so I'd go to the next best thing and get someone who has learned under him and hopefully has his philosophy.

 

2. Gonzalez has managed with some success in the Braves minor league system as well as the Marlins minor league system. He was a BA minor league manager of the year on three occasions.

 

3. Gonzalez was a minor league catcher which is a position that often produces some successful managers.

 

4. I don't think Gonzalez would have the ego of a manager who was a major league all-star player.

 

He seems to have paid his dues as both a minor league manager and a major league coach and has learned under some of the very best. He's going to be a very good manager if he can go to a place with the right talent around him. I'd love for that to be with the Chicago Cubs.