Palmerio DID take an anabolic steroid

[Blueheart05]

So says this NY Times article (registration reguired):

 

The positive drug test that has left Rafael Palmeiro's legacy in doubt involved the potent anabolic steroid stanozolol, a person in baseball with direct knowledge of the sport's drug-testing program said yesterday.

 

Stanozolol, known by its brand name, Winstrol, was most notably linked to the Olympic sprinter Ben Johnson of Canada, who was stripped of a gold medal in 1988 after testing positive for that steroid.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/03/sports/baseball/03steroids.html?oref=login

[E.J.]

Stupid. If I was Raffy I'd be on the next plane back to homeland Cuba. :D

[erik316wttn]

yeah, I think he quit, but then when he got off to that awful start (i released him on my fantasy team) he started taking them (again?).

[rickrolled]

WTG Raffy!!!

[OleMissCub]

yeah, I think he quit, but then when he got off to that awful start (i released him on my fantasy team) he started taking them (again?).

 

I don't see how steroids can make that big of a difference in your game from one month off them to one month on them.

[sethuel1]

So says this NY Times article (registration reguired):

 

The positive drug test that has left Rafael Palmeiro's legacy in doubt involved the potent anabolic steroid stanozolol, a person in baseball with direct knowledge of the sport's drug-testing program said yesterday.

 

Stanozolol, known by its brand name, Winstrol, was most notably linked to the Olympic sprinter Ben Johnson of Canada, who was stripped of a gold medal in 1988 after testing positive for that steroid.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/03/sports/baseball/03steroids.html?oref=login

According to this website

http://www.steroidtips.com/detection.htm

oral Winnie stays in your system for 3 week. Injectable Winnie stays in your system for 2 months. Either way, Raffy's been juicing during the season.

[sethuel1]

yeah, I think he quit, but then when he got off to that awful start (i released him on my fantasy team) he started taking them (again?).

 

I don't see how steroids can make that big of a difference in your game from one month off them to one month on them.

 

Winstrol (aka Winnie) is a very fast-acting steroid. You can read reports online of people who put on 15-20 lbs. of muscle in a month to a month and a half.

[OldHappyCubFan]

I took Androstene (Not a steroid, but close to it) for a couple of months. Those two months my recovery was awesome, and my strength went up tremendously.

 

However its risky, and the moment you come off of it, your strength is sapped. It helps alot in sports/weightlifting and energy levels.

[frostwyrm]

Palmeiro, citing a confidentiality agreement, has declined to disclose the details of his positive test, and everyone else -- including league and union officials, Palmeiro's agents and team employees -- is barred from disclosing the information by Section 7(A) of the 2005 Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program says the commissioner's office.

 

The confidentiality agreement accomplishes nothing but allowing players to lie about "accidental" ingestion via nutrional supplements. I see no reason why details of violations shouldn't be made public.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080202101.html

[jyoung55]

yeah, I think he quit, but then when he got off to that awful start (i released him on my fantasy team) he started taking them (again?).

 

I don't see how steroids can make that big of a difference in your game from one month off them to one month on them.

 

In someone younger, I would agree. But Palmeiro is getting ancient in baseball years. I doubt he had much left in the tank without juicing. Which, IMO, is the biggest concern over steroids in baseball --- it prolongs careers by temporarily delaying strength loss that would come with age.

[jyoung55]

Palmeiro, citing a confidentiality agreement, has declined to disclose the details of his positive test, and everyone else -- including league and union officials, Palmeiro's agents and team employees -- is barred from disclosing the information by Section 7(A) of the 2005 Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program says the commissioner's office.

 

The confidentiality agreement accomplishes nothing but allowing players to lie about "accidental" ingestion via nutrional supplements. I see no reason why details of violations shouldn't be made public.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080202101.html

 

Except in Palmeiro's case where we know that the drug he took is not contained in ANY "nutritional supplements."

 

He is a liar, always has been always will be.

[samhainn77]

yeah, I think he quit, but then when he got off to that awful start (i released him on my fantasy team) he started taking them (again?).

 

I don't see how steroids can make that big of a difference in your game from one month off them to one month on them.

 

In someone younger, I would agree. But Palmeiro is getting ancient in baseball years. I doubt he had much left in the tank without juicing. Which, IMO, is the biggest concern over steroids in baseball --- it prolongs careers by temporarily delaying strength loss that would come with age.

 

I think it would also have a big psychological effect. Not only are they stronger, but they are more confident. I'd imagine there would be a huge doubt in his mind. Did my natural ability build this career or did the chemicals? Can I perform at the same level on natural ability alone? He stops juicing this winter...gets off to a slow start and immediately thinks it's because he stopped. Continues to lose confidence, shoots up, has a decent game, confidence starts going the other way.

 

I'm convinced that Giambi started up again as well. He looked pretty skinny coming in to the season and was hitting for zero power. July hits and he is unstoppable and IMO looks big again. Maybe I'm dreaming things up.

[jyoung55]

yeah, I think he quit, but then when he got off to that awful start (i released him on my fantasy team) he started taking them (again?).

 

I don't see how steroids can make that big of a difference in your game from one month off them to one month on them.

 

In someone younger, I would agree. But Palmeiro is getting ancient in baseball years. I doubt he had much left in the tank without juicing. Which, IMO, is the biggest concern over steroids in baseball --- it prolongs careers by temporarily delaying strength loss that would come with age.

 

I think it would also have a big psychological effect. Not only are they stronger, but they are more confident. I'd imagine there would be a huge doubt in his mind. Did my natural ability build this career or did the chemicals? Can I perform at the same level on natural ability alone? He stops juicing this winter...gets off to a slow start and immediately thinks it's because he stopped. Continues to lose confidence, shoots up, has a decent game, confidence starts going the other way.

 

I'm convinced that Giambi started up again as well. He looked pretty skinny coming in to the season and was hitting for zero power. July hits and he is unstoppable and IMO looks big again. Maybe I'm dreaming things up.

 

I agree with your psychological effect assessment.

 

However, I am not ready to blame someone just because they "look bigger." I am not going down in that cess pool as Wilbon told Mariotti (what a great exchange by Wilbon by the way). I put on 15 pounds of muscle in 2 months of hard working out and protein shakes one summer, and I am not a professional grade athlete. So I am sure they could do it natuarally as well.

[CuseCubFan69]

How many times can a player be tested during a season? If he can tested just once I can see them juicing right after the test.

[samhainn77]

yeah, I think he quit, but then when he got off to that awful start (i released him on my fantasy team) he started taking them (again?).

 

I don't see how steroids can make that big of a difference in your game from one month off them to one month on them.

 

In someone younger, I would agree. But Palmeiro is getting ancient in baseball years. I doubt he had much left in the tank without juicing. Which, IMO, is the biggest concern over steroids in baseball --- it prolongs careers by temporarily delaying strength loss that would come with age.

 

I think it would also have a big psychological effect. Not only are they stronger, but they are more confident. I'd imagine there would be a huge doubt in his mind. Did my natural ability build this career or did the chemicals? Can I perform at the same level on natural ability alone? He stops juicing this winter...gets off to a slow start and immediately thinks it's because he stopped. Continues to lose confidence, shoots up, has a decent game, confidence starts going the other way.

 

I'm convinced that Giambi started up again as well. He looked pretty skinny coming in to the season and was hitting for zero power. July hits and he is unstoppable and IMO looks big again. Maybe I'm dreaming things up.

 

I agree with your psychological effect assessment.

 

However, I am not ready to blame someone just because they "look bigger." I am not going down in that cess pool as Wilbon told Mariotti (what a great exchange by Wilbon by the way). I put on 15 pounds of muscle in 2 months of hard working out and protein shakes one summer, and I am not a professional grade athlete. So I am sure they could do it natuarally as well.

 

 

Yes, but you also aren't an admitted "former" steroid user who had all winter to work out hard, drink protein shakes, but still came into camp skinnier than he had ever been in his career. Then in the course of 2.5 months of baseball workouts, batting practice, road games, etc...bulked up to his old size or damn near it. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it's improbable due to his track record. Normally I wouldn't jump on any person who had a significant size jump. I'd have my thoughts, but I'd reserve judgement. But when you admittedly cheat, you lose the benefit of the doubt.

 

It's like if my girlfriend cheated on me. Before the fact, if she stayed out late a few times or went out drinking with her friends I wouldn't assume she is cheating. But if I catch her cheating and then 10 months down the road she stays out late...I'm automatically going to assume she is cheating.

[E.J.]

Haha. The best part about this was that MLB knew about the positive testing, but still felt the need to congratulate Palmeiro with a full-page ad in the USA Today after he got his 3,000 hit. What kind of message does that send?

[Cubzfan64]

Haha. The best part about this was that MLB knew about the positive testing, but still felt the need to congratulate Palmeiro with a full-page ad in the USA Today after he got his 3,000 hit. What kind of message does that send?

 

A VERY pathetic one imho!

 

I heard an interview with Curt Schilling right after Palmeiro was "outed" and he had an interesting comment. He said that after his testimony he got to talking to more former players and one of them told him that in his estimation, the most positive aspect of using steroids (other than healing faster from injuries) was that each and every day felt like the first week of the baseball season - you feel rejuvenated, healthy and on top of your game every single day. Schilling said he believes more than anything else, THAT's the main temptation players have to contend with.

 

One last little comment - if anyone who is truly found guilty of using steroids ever has a chance to get into the HOF, Pete Rose should be voted in first.

[Jake]

One last little comment - if anyone who is truly found guilty of using steroids ever has a chance to get into the HOF, Pete Rose should be voted in first.

Apples and Oranges really. But, I'll disagree. With whatever you want to say about taking steroids, the ultimate point was to win. There is never any potential to throw a game. When betting on your own team, there is that potential.

 

That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either.

[OleMissCub]

 

That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either.

 

Not sure it makes any difference, but Rose never bet against his team.

[Jake]

 

That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either.

 

Not sure it makes any difference, but Rose never bet against his team.

Hence my usage of the word Potential.

[CuseCubFan69]

 

That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either.

 

Not sure it makes any difference, but Rose never bet against his team.

 

That we know of.

[PujolsPower]

There is also the potential that he altered his managerial strategy based on which games he bet on/would be betting on. I could see him managing his bullpen and when he rested his regular players based on the timing of his bets.

[WindyCity]

 

That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either.

 

Not sure it makes any difference, but Rose never bet against his team.

 

But there were games where he did bet on his team to win -- and there were games where he did not bet on his team at all. If he had put the same amount of money on his team for 162 games, people would likely have had less of problem with it. The fact that there were times when he didn't bet on his team, implies he didn't feel confident that they would win..... and that's just as bad as betting against them.

[Cubzfan64]

One last little comment - if anyone who is truly found guilty of using steroids ever has a chance to get into the HOF, Pete Rose should be voted in first.

Apples and Oranges really. But, I'll disagree. With whatever you want to say about taking steroids, the ultimate point was to win. There is never any potential to throw a game. When betting on your own team, there is that potential.

 

That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either.

 

Although they are certainly not the same things, I equate them both in my mind when I consider a person's character and being deserving of the HOF. I would never vote a person into the baseball HOF if I knew they had used steroids - ESPECIALLY someone who stood in front of millions of people and said they had never used them. I don't care that they may have used them to try to win - that's a terrible argument in my mind. It's cheating any way you stretch it, and it ruins the game imho.

 

Personally I believe in my heart that the use of steroids in baseball has had a much much more detrimental affect on the sport than anything Pete Rose did while gambling. How many young kids who didn't use steroids never made it to the big leagues because of those who did? How many game results were affected by guys who were using steroids? How many championships, MVP's, batting titles, Cy Young awards etc... were affected because of the use of steroids?

 

I just believe that if you're going to forgive someone who is a proven user and allow them into the HOF, you should forgive Pete Rose and allow him in as well.

[badgercub]

One last little comment - if anyone who is truly found guilty of using steroids ever has a chance to get into the HOF, Pete Rose should be voted in first.

Apples and Oranges really. But, I'll disagree. With whatever you want to say about taking steroids, the ultimate point was to win. There is never any potential to throw a game. When betting on your own team, there is that potential.

 

That's why Shoeless Joe isn't in the HOF, and that's why Rose will never be either.

 

Although they are certainly not the same things, I equate them both in my mind when I consider a person's character and being deserving of the HOF. I would never vote a person into the baseball HOF if I knew they had used steroids - ESPECIALLY someone who stood in front of millions of people and said they had never used them. I don't care that they may have used them to try to win - that's a terrible argument in my mind. It's cheating any way you stretch it, and it ruins the game imho.

 

Personally I believe in my heart that the use of steroids in baseball has had a much much more detrimental affect on the sport than anything Pete Rose did while gambling. How many young kids who didn't use steroids never made it to the big leagues because of those who did? How many game results were affected by guys who were using steroids? How many championships, MVP's, batting titles, Cy Young awards etc... were affected because of the use of steroids?

 

I just believe that if you're going to forgive someone who is a proven user and allow them into the HOF, you should forgive Pete Rose and allow him in as well.

 

It will be up to the sportswriters to determine if Raffy is going to get into the hall and unlike any of the other sports, baseball has listed character as a determining factor as to whether or not a vote may be cast for someone. Pete Rose has been banned from baseball while Raffy has not and until the penalty for Steroids is a lifetime ban then players that are caught using, still have a chance to get in.