Please, someone, anyone, explain this team to me.

[badger1679666666]

They lose 7 in a row against crapphole teams and then go 6-1 on a west coast road trip against SD/LA

 

They lose 8 in a row and are left for dead, then sweep the Marlins and are a scoring machine against the lowly pirates and reds.

 

They ALMOST sweep the Cards in STL (really should have) but then struggle against SF and win 2 from behind in the 8th/9th.

 

They look like a HS team for 17 innings against the sucky D-backs, and right when it looks like we are going to lose 2 and possibley the series and all playoff/wc momentum, they comeback and win in the 9th today.

 

I don't get this team at all.

[rynesrevenge0206]

Maybe it's because they're the Cubs.

[CubinNY]

With Dusty at the helm they're not that good. In fact, their record is just about right give or take a game or two.

 

Get use to it.

[Bench Coach]

With Dusty at the helm they're not that good. In fact, their record is just about right give or take a game or two.

 

Yeah, blame Dusty. Because Dusty is the reason we don't have a solid bullpen, and a solid proven left fielder.

 

Next time you call out Dusty put up some facts.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

With Dusty at the helm they're not that good. In fact, their record is just about right give or take a game or two.

 

Yeah, blame Dusty. Because Dusty is the reason we don't have a solid bullpen, and a solid proven left fielder.

 

Next time you call out Dusty put up some facts.

We have a "proven" left fielder and a good left fielder. Unfortunately, Dusty plays the "proven" one rather than the good one. Oh well.

[Bench Coach]

Murton has palyed in a whole (maybe) 15 games. I think this kid is special, but he needs more at-bats. Hollandsworth is a bech player, and should be so. Unfourtanately Dusty's only alternative is a rookie. Like I said I like Murton, but it's a little too early to call him the next Pujols.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Murton has palyed in a whole (maybe) 15 games. I think this kid is special, but he needs more at-bats. Hollandsworth is a bech player, and should be so. Unfourtanately Dusty's only alternative is a rookie. Like I said I like Murton, but it's a little too early to call him the next Pujols.

I said he was good. When did I call him Pujols? When did anyone call him Pujols? At some point he has to get playing time. Why can't that time be now since we have no better alternative?

[Bench Coach]

Murton has palyed in a whole (maybe) 15 games. I think this kid is special, but he needs more at-bats. Hollandsworth is a bech player, and should be so. Unfourtanately Dusty's only alternative is a rookie. Like I said I like Murton, but it's a little too early to call him the next Pujols.

I said he was good. When did I call him Pujols? When did anyone call him Pujols? At some point he has to get playing time. Why can't that time be now since we have no better alternative?

 

Because we're 2.5 games out of the Wild Card. Now is not the time to experiment. Now, if he keeps hitting like he is, I'm all for it. Just don't get to high on this kid too fast. We did that with one outfielder one time. I think his name is Corey Paterson.

 

I know nobody called him Pujols, I was parraphrasing.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Murton has palyed in a whole (maybe) 15 games. I think this kid is special, but he needs more at-bats. Hollandsworth is a bech player, and should be so. Unfourtanately Dusty's only alternative is a rookie. Like I said I like Murton, but it's a little too early to call him the next Pujols.

I said he was good. When did I call him Pujols? When did anyone call him Pujols? At some point he has to get playing time. Why can't that time be now since we have no better alternative?

 

Because we're 2.5 ga,es out of the Wild Card. Now is not the time to experiment. Now, if he keeps hitting like he is, I'm all for it. Just don't get to high on this kid too fast. We did that with one outfielder one time. I think his name is Corey Paterson.

 

I know nobody called him Pujols, I was parraphrasing.

You weren't paraphrasing, you were making it up. Also, there is a huge difference between Corey and Matt. Matt has a good idea of the strike zone. He doesn't swing at a ton of balls and he takes walks when the pitches aren't strikes. I think we can all agree that Corey wasn't doing that.

 

Also, we are 2.5 games out of the wild card. I don't think it is time to put sub-par players out on the field because they have experience when we have better alternatives on the bench. This is the time that you want your best players out on the field as much as possible.

[imb]

Murton has palyed in a whole (maybe) 15 games. I think this kid is special, but he needs more at-bats. Hollandsworth is a bech player, and should be so. Unfourtanately Dusty's only alternative is a rookie. Like I said I like Murton, but it's a little too early to call him the next Pujols.

I said he was good. When did I call him Pujols? When did anyone call him Pujols? At some point he has to get playing time. Why can't that time be now since we have no better alternative?

 

Because we're 2.5 games out of the Wild Card. Now is not the time to experiment. Now, if he keeps hitting like he is, I'm all for it. Just don't get to high on this kid too fast. We did that with one outfielder one time. I think his name is Corey Paterson.

 

I know nobody called him Pujols, I was parraphrasing.

 

It's not experimenting, it's playing the better player. You do watch the games, no?

[Coach C]

Murton has palyed in a whole (maybe) 15 games. I think this kid is special, but he needs more at-bats. Hollandsworth is a bech player, and should be so. Unfourtanately Dusty's only alternative is a rookie. Like I said I like Murton, but it's a little too early to call him the next Pujols.

I said he was good. When did I call him Pujols? When did anyone call him Pujols? At some point he has to get playing time. Why can't that time be now since we have no better alternative?

 

Because we're 2.5 games out of the Wild Card. Now is not the time to experiment. Now, if he keeps hitting like he is, I'm all for it. Just don't get to high on this kid too fast. We did that with one outfielder one time. I think his name is Corey Paterson.

 

I know nobody called him Pujols, I was parraphrasing.

 

It's not experimenting, it's playing the better player. You do watch the games, no?

 

I agree with IMB here. Murton is hitting the ball very well, and it makes no sense to me to keep him on the bench. To see him at the 6th spot was fantastic. I would love for Murton to stay at the sixth spot.

 

Hairston

Walker

Lee

A-Ram

Burnitz

Murton

Barrett

Perez

Pitcher

 

That's how my line-up would look like on a daily basis, with an occasional off.

[Bench Coach]

Murton has palyed in a whole (maybe) 15 games. I think this kid is special, but he needs more at-bats. Hollandsworth is a bech player, and should be so. Unfourtanately Dusty's only alternative is a rookie. Like I said I like Murton, but it's a little too early to call him the next Pujols.

I said he was good. When did I call him Pujols? When did anyone call him Pujols? At some point he has to get playing time. Why can't that time be now since we have no better alternative?

 

Because we're 2.5 games out of the Wild Card. Now is not the time to experiment. Now, if he keeps hitting like he is, I'm all for it. Just don't get to high on this kid too fast. We did that with one outfielder one time. I think his name is Corey Paterson.

 

I know nobody called him Pujols, I was parraphrasing.

 

I was paraphrasing everybody's love affair with Murton.

 

 

 

It's not experimenting, it's playing the better player. You do watch the games, no?

 

Murton has played in only a few games, I'm not sure how many. He's doing great. That being said, I'm not ready to declare him the starting left fielder. As far as Cedeno over Perez I would like to see Cedeno get more starts, but I understand Dusty's point. Neifi is a prove4n player, Cedeno is not. YOu just don't junk a proven player over an unproven talent. Neifi is a bench player through and through, but we're not sure what Cedeno is yet.

 

Anyway, I want Nomar back.

 

And, I watch pretty much every game in my capacity as a lazy college student. Just because a few rookies came up and got a few hits doesn't mean I'm ready to declare them the answer to all the Cub's problems. Once again, I like Murton and Cedeno a lot. But, experience counts more in my book than RAW, UNTRIED talent. If Murton proves himself a little more (and he's well on his way to doing that, at least in my eyes) great! Cedeno could be the man to, I don't know yet. But, just because Neifi isn't batting .350 anymore doesn't mean I'm ready to junk him.

[chicubs]

 

It's not experimenting, it's playing the better player. You do watch the games, no?

 

Im with IMB!. I thought managers always played "the hot hand" and the hot hand certainly is not freakin Todd Hollandsworth. Murton is hot. Play him.

[LuvChicagoSports]

.

Murton has played in only a few games, I'm not sure how many. He's doing great. That being said, I'm not ready to declare him the starting left fielder. As far as Cedeno over Perez I would like to see Cedeno get more starts, but I understand Dusty's point. Neifi is a prove4n player, Cedeno is not. YOu just don't junk a proven player over an unproven talent. Neifi is a bench player through and through, but we're not sure what Cedeno is yet.

 

Anyway, I want Nomar back.

 

And, I watch pretty much every game in my capacity as a lazy college student. Just because a few rookies came up and got a few hits doesn't mean I'm ready to declare them the answer to all the Cub's problems. Once again, I like Murton and Cedeno a lot. But, experience counts more in my book than RAW, UNTRIED talent. If Murton proves himself a little more (and he's well on his way to doing that, at least in my eyes) great! Cedeno could be the man to, I don't know yet. But, just because Neifi isn't batting .350 anymore doesn't mean I'm ready to junk him.

 

This isn't an attack on you by any means, but are you saying that you think experience is more important even if that experience isn't good. So by what you are saying it would make more sense for Dusty to call C-Pat up and play him everyday instead of Murton. I mean I know C-Pat was doing terrible, but in the same token Hollandsworth has done just as bad if not worse. Yes Corey struck out WAY more times, but he had more hits, runs, stolen bases, and home runs. Basically what I am saying is that two thirds of our starting outfield was pathetic this season so the experience doesn't mean anything. If a rookie has more to offer than a player who hasn't played well thus far, the rookie should play. A lot of people are saying that Murton doesn't have the power to be a starting corner outfielder. Last I checked Todd Hollandsworth has absolutely no power. His slugging is under .400 and ops is under .700. So the one knock on Murton doesn't have any substantial weight because the player he would be playing for has the same knock on him.

 

It boils down to Dusty Baker being stubborn. In spring training, Hendry was quoted as saying he wanted Ryan Dempster to close, but Dusty said he was going with his boy Hawk cause he has the stuff. When his boy continued to be terrible in the closers role, he kept throwing him out there. Think where we would be right now if Dempster had been closing the whole time like Hendry had suggested. We could easily be 3 or 4 games better than now which would put us in the lead or a tie for the WC. I don't have a problem with Dusty wanting to play vets when the vets are good, but I do have a prolem with him being so stubborn that he refuses to admit the vet is struggling and there are better options. Murton should be the starting left fielder til he shows that he is as bad or worse than Hollandsworth. You don't make the playoffs by playing experienced players over players that are better. At this point in time right now Murton is better. I'm not saying he is going to be great which I hope he is going to be, but I am saying that he is better right now than Hollandsworth for tomorrow's game. I want to make the playoffs, not have experienced bad players get playing time because they have been there before.

[CubsWin]

Well, Dusty started Murton against a righty for the first time today, IIRC. So we might be getting our wish. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

As for Cedeno, I like what I see, but he was hitless in his start on Thursday and Neifi has been getting some big hits lately, so I can understand Dusty not starting Cedeno a little better than I could not starting Murton.

 

As far as the Cubs being hot and cold, I certainly don't know why, but one possible explanation is that they are being coached (or allowed) to approach their at bats differently than before. Walker and Macias got on base in the ninth today via the bases on balls. Macias took some very close pitches, ones that he would normally swing at. Maybe the different approach is still sinking in.

[mhuber92211]

In response to the explanation of the team (trying to get back on track), this team is tired. The "fire" that gets people going in the morning is not as strong. We are headed into the "dog days" and they have played 15 straight games with pretty much the same pieces in the lineup. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cubs offense get going on Tuesday after having Monday off.

 

I think that another way to look at this team is that the starting pitching is finally doing what we thought they would all season. They are keeping the Cubs in ballgames. The pen hasn't been consistent but are certainly tired. The pitching is coming around at a good time. When Williamson is activiated, I would expect to see some shakeup in the Pen with more then just 1 or 2 demotions. I would expect roles to be solified by the end of August and then consitency will happen for the september stretch when all Dusty teams seemingly finish strong.

[Roast]

WOHOO, another dusty debate!!!!!

 

We should make a dust sucks/rocks forum.

[chicubs310]

Heres an idea for a moderator. Make a new sticky, strictly for a "Bash Dusty Post", and do not allow any more of these, that was not based on dusty, but somehow managed to go to him because he maked bad decisions.

 

Just an idea, and im sure it's probably been offered numerous times, i just get sick of reading the same comments on every thread

[Bench Coach]

.

Murton has played in only a few games, I'm not sure how many. He's doing great. That being said, I'm not ready to declare him the starting left fielder. As far as Cedeno over Perez I would like to see Cedeno get more starts, but I understand Dusty's point. Neifi is a prove4n player, Cedeno is not. YOu just don't junk a proven player over an unproven talent. Neifi is a bench player through and through, but we're not sure what Cedeno is yet.

 

Anyway, I want Nomar back.

 

And, I watch pretty much every game in my capacity as a lazy college student. Just because a few rookies came up and got a few hits doesn't mean I'm ready to declare them the answer to all the Cub's problems. Once again, I like Murton and Cedeno a lot. But, experience counts more in my book than RAW, UNTRIED talent. If Murton proves himself a little more (and he's well on his way to doing that, at least in my eyes) great! Cedeno could be the man to, I don't know yet. But, just because Neifi isn't batting .350 anymore doesn't mean I'm ready to junk him.

 

This isn't an attack on you by any means, but are you saying that you think experience is more important even if that experience isn't good. So by what you are saying it would make more sense for Dusty to call C-Pat up and play him everyday instead of Murton. I mean I know C-Pat was doing terrible, but in the same token Hollandsworth has done just as bad if not worse. Yes Corey struck out WAY more times, but he had more hits, runs, stolen bases, and home runs. Basically what I am saying is that two thirds of our starting outfield was pathetic this season so the experience doesn't mean anything. If a rookie has more to offer than a player who hasn't played well thus far, the rookie should play. A lot of people are saying that Murton doesn't have the power to be a starting corner outfielder. Last I checked Todd Hollandsworth has absolutely no power. His slugging is under .400 and ops is under .700. So the one knock on Murton doesn't have any substantial weight because the player he would be playing for has the same knock on him.

 

It boils down to Dusty Baker being stubborn. In spring training, Hendry was quoted as saying he wanted Ryan Dempster to close, but Dusty said he was going with his boy Hawk cause he has the stuff. When his boy continued to be terrible in the closers role, he kept throwing him out there. Think where we would be right now if Dempster had been closing the whole time like Hendry had suggested. We could easily be 3 or 4 games better than now which would put us in the lead or a tie for the WC. I don't have a problem with Dusty wanting to play vets when the vets are good, but I do have a prolem with him being so stubborn that he refuses to admit the vet is struggling and there are better options. Murton should be the starting left fielder til he shows that he is as bad or worse than Hollandsworth. You don't make the playoffs by playing experienced players over players that are better. At this point in time right now Murton is better. I'm not saying he is going to be great which I hope he is going to be, but I am saying that he is better right now than Hollandsworth for tomorrow's game. I want to make the playoffs, not have experienced bad players get playing time because they have been there before.

 

You definitely have a point.

 

 

 

This isn't an attack on you by any means, but are you saying that you think experience is more important even if that experience isn't good. So by what you are saying it would make more sense for Dusty to call C-Pat up and play him everyday instead of Murton.

 

No, you don't understand. I'm just saying that one shouldn't put all their faith in the hands of several untried players. Laying that much pressure on rookies is probably not a good idea. Now, if they step up and do the job, great. I just don't want to load the pressure of a stretch run on the backs of rookies, then if we don't make it, sacrafce them in some sort of scapegoating manauver. Experience over raw talent is a personal opinoin of mine, one which I'm not trying to force on anyone. It does not always apply, though I personally believe it applies more than not.

 

This isn't an attack on you by any means,

 

I don't feel like I'm under attack.

 

I, however, made a comment to a post in another thread which called out that poster to show facts as to why he dislikes Dusty. I was impatient at the seemingly endless factless ripping on Dusty. However, several people have pointed out that the reasons people dislike Dusty have been discussed over and over. I don't have the time to go back and read 200 to 300 threads from the past, and was under the impression that people wren't backing their opinoin up with facts. I apologise.

[minnesotacubsfan]

WOHOO, another dusty debate!!!!!

 

We should make a dust sucks/rocks forum.

 

forum???

 

 

we should just make it mandatory that left feild screams "Dusty Rocks!"

 

right field could reply w/ "Dusty Sox!!"

 

goo ole fashioned Wrigley traditions!!!

 

:clown:

[Gracies Girl]

No, you don't understand. I'm just saying that one shouldn't put all their faith in the hands of several untried players. Laying that much pressure on rookies is probably not a good idea. Now, if they step up and do the job, great. I just don't want to load the pressure of a stretch run on the backs of rookies, then if we don't make it, sacrafce them in some sort of scapegoating manauver.

 

First, laying it on the rookies has been working out pretty well for Bobby Cox and the Braves, hasn't it?

 

Second, how are the rookies supposed to "step up and do the job" if they don't consistently get to play because somebody has to play the "proven veterans"?

[Bench Coach]

WOHOO, another dusty debate!!!!!

 

We should make a dust sucks/rocks forum.

 

forum???

 

 

we should just make it mandatory that left feild screams "Dusty Rocks!"

 

right field could reply w/ "Dusty Sox!!"

 

goo ole fashioned Wrigley traditions!!!

 

:clown:

 

What about the center field bleachers?

[Roast]

 

What about the center field bleachers?

 

"WE WANT A PITCHER NOT A BELLY ITCHER"

[Bench Coach]

No, you don't understand. I'm just saying that one shouldn't put all their faith in the hands of several untried players. Laying that much pressure on rookies is probably not a good idea. Now, if they step up and do the job, great. I just don't want to load the pressure of a stretch run on the backs of rookies, then if we don't make it, sacrafce them in some sort of scapegoating manauver.

 

First, laying it on the rookies has been working out pretty well for Bobby Cox and the Braves, hasn't it?

 

Second, how are the rookies supposed to "step up and do the job" if they don't consistently get to play because somebody has to play the "proven veterans"?

 

Thats Bobby Cox and the Braves, not the Cubs and Dusty Baker. The Brave's farm system for some reason is very good at preparing young players for the majors.

 

And, yes, a balance does need to be struck between playing rookies and veterans, so the rookies can get playing time to prove themselvs. All I'm saying is not to through them in there without experience. Its a recipie for disaster for them and the team.

[Bench Coach]

 

What about the center field bleachers?

 

"WE WANT A PITCHER NOT A BELLY ITCHER"

 

Classic.