Re-Visiting Hendry As a MiddleMan for Soriano Trade

[HoopsCubs]

You folks read the papers just like I do. It sure sounds like Texas is going to trade Alfonso Soriano before the weekend is done. I still think Jim Hendry can insert himself in the middle here, and try to get a relief pitcher or corner outfielder.

 

Texas needs starting pitching (under-statement). And despite Wood's injury, I still think the Cubs have excess starting pitching that could be used as trade chips (Rusch, Mitre for example).

 

The Mets, Yankees, Twins and Red Sox have shown interest.

 

Soriano to one of those teams. Rusch and/or Mitre to Texas. What do we get? J.C. Romero? Tom Gordon?

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

Hoops

[LoneStarCubFan]

I just posted on another thread that I wouldn't be surprised if Soriano was a Cub this weekend.

[hawkeyecub]

A fellow worker was telling me today that Bruce Levine was on the radio last night and reported that Hendry was talking to Texas. Levine didn't know who in particular he was talking to them about, but that Soriano is the one rumored to be moved and Texas is desperate for some pitching.

 

We all know about Levine's track record, but a deal with them does seem logical.

 

I just don't want Soriano and I'm not sure what Texas would give up.

[HoopsCubs]

I just posted on another thread that I wouldn't be surprised if Soriano was a Cub this weekend.

 

If he's willing to play OF, you could bat him 6th. But it sure sounds like everytime someone asks him about moving to CF, he pouts. That kind of negative energy, I think we can do without. Now, if the Rangers are willing to trade Dellucci and Soriano, I'd gladly give them pitching and Todd Walker.

[Roast]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/KingJME/happy45.gif God I love the last week before the deadline. My favorite part of the baseball season (aside the playoffs, when the cubs are in it) right before the deadline. I love brewing up deals and such. And I love all this tradetalk/rumors.

 

Anyways, I'm starting to get excited. Because I'm 100% Posotive that we are going to end up with SOMEBODY new on this team. We are obviously contenders (only THREE out of the wild card) and I know Hendry isnt just going to sit passivly. The only question is WHO will be the new face on the team. And how big of an impact will he have.

 

OK, all that aside, I would like to see Hendry try to get something as a middle man in a trade like this.

 

What about Mike Cameron from the Mets? I posted an article about a week ago that said the cubs were looking into him. Not that I particularly want cameron. Just throwing something out there. What about Cliff Floyd?

 

Personally, however, I dont want hendry to touch left field unless he makes a BIG aquisition (like a Dunn). I would rather see Murton play out there every day, unless he gets a player thats going to be a huge improvement.

[RynoRules]

If we got Soriano in as part of some sort of three way deal where we only had to give up, say, Mitre and lesser minor league prospect, it would be hard to argue w/ the move.

[hawkeyecub]

I'm just going crazy with the lack of rumors and speculation.

 

Anyways, I would much rather have Floyd than Cameron.

 

He could be a good fit, I'm just not sure if Minaya will give him up right now.

[Roast]

I'm just going crazy with the lack of rumors and speculation.

 

Anyways, I would much rather have Floyd than Cameron.

 

He could be a good fit, I'm just not sure if Minaya will give him up right now.

 

I dont particularly want either one. Im just kinda throwing their names out there. I'd rather see murton than either of those two. However, I know we will trade for someone. So, maybe it will be one of them. who knows.

[Roast]

Maybe we can work a threeway deal where Boston gets Soriano, We get manny Ramirez, and texas gets WHO CARES.

 

:lol:

 

Maybe not. But still. it'd be cool.

[hawkeyecub]

I dont particularly want either one. Im just kinda throwing their names out there. I'd rather see murton than either of those two.

 

Well it depends what you're looking for. Floyd gives us a much better chance to win this year and could basically take Burnitz's spot next year at a similar price.

 

He's hitting .280/.357/.523 this year and that's about what we could expect out of him next year if he's healthy. It's a pretty safe bet that Murton won't be able to slug near .500, and I wouldn't expect his OBP to be much over .360.

[CuseCubFan69]

Soriano would be interesting and I wonder if he would be comfortable playing LF? I also wonder what the Cubs would give up to aquire him.....if it's Murton and Hill no way.

[CubfaninCA]

If the Cubs get Soriano, this board will meltdown. You need walks at the 6 spot, not a 540 slg%. :)

 

Hairston, Nomar, Lee, Burnitz, ARam, Soriano, Holla/Murton and Barrett :D

[Roast]

If the Cubs get Soriano, this board will meltdown. You need walks at the 6 spot, not a 540 slg%. :)

 

Hairston, Nomar, Lee, Burnitz, ARam, Soriano, Holla/Murton and Barrett :D

 

Look at his splits, THAT is why the board would melt down. His slugging is nice, yes. But he doesnt do jack crap outside of texas.

 

SPLIT 	AB 	R 	H 	2B 	3B 	HR 	RBI 	BB 	HBP 	SO 	SB 	CS 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 	OPS
Home 	205	39	66	17	1	18	48	10	1	33	6	2	.322	.353	.678	1.031
Away 	192	30	46	10	0	7	20	8	2	46	8	0	.240	.276	.401	.677

 

Im not good at getting Code to work, but thats kinda decent i guess....

 

ANyways, Look at the difference. There is a .3 point diffence in his OPS. And his SLG that you speak of is .401 away.....

[rawaction]

What about Soriano at 2B and Walker in LF?

 

And I understand his home/road splits, but I don't think they would be as pronounced as a Cub. His home numbers wouldn't be as high. But still would be pretty good. Meanwhile, I think his road numbers would be much better going from playing games in Oakland, Seattle, and Anaheim to playing in Minute Maid, Busch, GABP, Miller, and PNC.

 

Like Hoops said, I'd miss Todd. But I'd give up Walker and pitching (Rusch, Mitre ish) for Soriano and Dellucci.

[ThePenguin11]

If the Cubs get Soriano, this board will meltdown. You need walks at the 6 spot, not a 540 slg%. :)

 

Hairston, Nomar, Lee, Burnitz, ARam, Soriano, Holla/Murton and Barrett :D

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. One of the last places in the lineup you need walks out of is the 6th spot. The sixth spot needs to drive in your sluggers after they get on base with the base hits and doubles. If they walk, odds are the leadoff man isn't going to have a chance to drive them in - so you have to depend on your two worst hitters and your pitcher to drive Mr. 6 in. Walks are wasted in the 6,7 and 8 spots. However the 8 hitter needs to be patient enough to wait for his pitch or else get pitched around (ala Barrett) resulting in more walks. The only place you 'need' to get walks from is the 1 and 2 hitters in your lineup - anywhere else is a bonus.

[CubfaninCA]

If the Cubs get Soriano, this board will meltdown. You need walks at the 6 spot, not a 540 slg%. :)

 

Hairston, Nomar, Lee, Burnitz, ARam, Soriano, Holla/Murton and Barrett :D

 

Look at his splits, THAT is why the board would melt down. His slugging is nice, yes. But he doesnt do jack crap outside of texas.

 

SPLIT 	AB 	R 	H 	2B 	3B 	HR 	RBI 	BB 	HBP 	SO 	SB 	CS 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 	OPS
Home 	205	39	66	17	1	18	48	10	1	33	6	2	.322	.353	.678	1.031
Away 	192	30	46	10	0	7	20	8	2	46	8	0	.240	.276	.401	.677

 

Im not good at getting Code to work, but thats kinda decent i guess....

 

ANyways, Look at the difference. There is a .3 point diffence in his OPS. And his SLG that you speak of is .401 away.....

 

Small sample size. :D

 

It's just one of those years. His 3 year split from 2002-2004 away from home is .534.

[ThePenguin11]

If the Cubs get Soriano, this board will meltdown. You need walks at the 6 spot, not a 540 slg%. :)

 

Hairston, Nomar, Lee, Burnitz, ARam, Soriano, Holla/Murton and Barrett :D

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. One of the last places in the lineup you need walks out of is the 6th spot. The sixth spot needs to drive in your sluggers after they get on base with the base hits and doubles. If they walk, odds are the leadoff man isn't going to have a chance to drive them in - so you have to depend on your two worst hitters and your pitcher to drive Mr. 6 in. Walks are wasted in the 6,7 and 8 spots. However the 8 hitter needs to be patient enough to wait for his pitch or else get pitched around (ala Barrett) resulting in more walks. The only place you 'need' to get walks from is the 1 and 2 hitters in your lineup - anywhere else is a bonus.

 

Okay...Now I'm confused...How is it that walks are needed out of the 6th spot, but that's where you have him in your projected lineup? Is the comment about walks just a sarcastic remark about possible poster reaction? If so I didn't catch the sarcasm the first time.

[CuseCubFan69]

What about Soriano at 2B and Walker in LF?

 

And I understand his home/road splits, but I don't think they would be as pronounced as a Cub. His home numbers wouldn't be as high. But still would be pretty good. Meanwhile, I think his road numbers would be much better going from playing games in Oakland, Seattle, and Anaheim to playing in Minute Maid, Busch, GABP, Miller, and PNC.

 

Like Hoops said, I'd miss Todd. But I'd give up Walker and pitching (Rusch, Mitre ish) for Soriano and Dellucci.

 

I think that Walker loses his value if he's moved to LF. If he's at 2B he has some nice numbers but in LF he would be a below average LF IMO.

[CubfaninCA]

If the Cubs get Soriano, this board will meltdown. You need walks at the 6 spot, not a 540 slg%. :)

 

Hairston, Nomar, Lee, Burnitz, ARam, Soriano, Holla/Murton and Barrett :D

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. One of the last places in the lineup you need walks out of is the 6th spot. The sixth spot needs to drive in your sluggers after they get on base with the base hits and doubles. If they walk, odds are the leadoff man isn't going to have a chance to drive them in - so you have to depend on your two worst hitters and your pitcher to drive Mr. 6 in. Walks are wasted in the 6,7 and 8 spots. However the 8 hitter needs to be patient enough to wait for his pitch or else get pitched around (ala Barrett) resulting in more walks. The only place you 'need' to get walks from is the 1 and 2 hitters in your lineup - anywhere else is a bonus.

 

Well I like walks from 3, 4, 5 too. Those are suppose to be the guys you pay big money too to do everything. However, with Hollandsworth and Barrett at 7 and 8, I want someone who's going to hit for power at 6, and not allow Hollandsworth to continue to strand runners.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If the Cubs get Soriano, this board will meltdown. You need walks at the 6 spot, not a 540 slg%. :)

 

Hairston, Nomar, Lee, Burnitz, ARam, Soriano, Holla/Murton and Barrett :D

 

Look at his splits, THAT is why the board would melt down. His slugging is nice, yes. But he doesnt do jack crap outside of texas.

 

SPLIT 	AB 	R 	H 	2B 	3B 	HR 	RBI 	BB 	HBP 	SO 	SB 	CS 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 	OPS
Home 	205	39	66	17	1	18	48	10	1	33	6	2	.322	.353	.678	1.031
Away 	192	30	46	10	0	7	20	8	2	46	8	0	.240	.276	.401	.677

 

Im not good at getting Code to work, but thats kinda decent i guess....

 

ANyways, Look at the difference. There is a .3 point diffence in his OPS. And his SLG that you speak of is .401 away.....

 

Small sample size. :D

 

It's just one of those years. His 3 year split from 2002-2004 away from home is .534.

 

As a Ranger

 

2004 Home: .317/.360/.526/.886

2004 Road: .244/.291/.444/.735

 

2005 Home: .322/.353/.678/1.031

2005 Road: .237/.274/.398/.672

[ThePenguin11]

If the Cubs get Soriano, this board will meltdown. You need walks at the 6 spot, not a 540 slg%. :)

 

Hairston, Nomar, Lee, Burnitz, ARam, Soriano, Holla/Murton and Barrett :D

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. One of the last places in the lineup you need walks out of is the 6th spot. The sixth spot needs to drive in your sluggers after they get on base with the base hits and doubles. If they walk, odds are the leadoff man isn't going to have a chance to drive them in - so you have to depend on your two worst hitters and your pitcher to drive Mr. 6 in. Walks are wasted in the 6,7 and 8 spots. However the 8 hitter needs to be patient enough to wait for his pitch or else get pitched around (ala Barrett) resulting in more walks. The only place you 'need' to get walks from is the 1 and 2 hitters in your lineup - anywhere else is a bonus.

 

Well I like walks from 3, 4, 5 too. Those are suppose to be the guys you pay big money too to do everything. However, with Hollandsworth and Barrett at 7 and 8, I want someone who's going to hit for power at 6, and not allow Hollandsworth to continue to strand runners.

 

But isn't that what Soriano does? He's capable of 40-50 doubles and 30-40 homeruns. He's a power hitter.

[ZZ Thorn]

Getting Soriano, i.e. pop from our 2b, would go a long way to being able to start Murton in LF and Pie in CF and even Cedeno at SS in 2006. As I said in a different thread, those two guys won't produce much pop (at least for a few years probably) at places where pop is expected, so if we also have non-pop at SS and 2b, 2 places where non-pop is usually standard, we wouldn't have much pop.

 

Hope that made sense.

 

My point: starting Murton, Pie and Cedeno would be totally acceptable w/ a slugging 2b, slugging RFer, Lee, ARam and Barrett at catcher IMO.

[rawaction]

If the Cubs get Soriano, this board will meltdown. You need walks at the 6 spot, not a 540 slg%. :)

 

Hairston, Nomar, Lee, Burnitz, ARam, Soriano, Holla/Murton and Barrett :D

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. One of the last places in the lineup you need walks out of is the 6th spot. The sixth spot needs to drive in your sluggers after they get on base with the base hits and doubles. If they walk, odds are the leadoff man isn't going to have a chance to drive them in - so you have to depend on your two worst hitters and your pitcher to drive Mr. 6 in. Walks are wasted in the 6,7 and 8 spots. However the 8 hitter needs to be patient enough to wait for his pitch or else get pitched around (ala Barrett) resulting in more walks. The only place you 'need' to get walks from is the 1 and 2 hitters in your lineup - anywhere else is a bonus.

 

With all due respect, that is completely absurd. First off, how do you waste a walk? By not scoring the runner when he gets on base? Hitting w/runners on base or in scoring position is unpredictable. The more runners that get on base, the more runners will score. Simple math. At the least, a walk turns over the lineup. If the 6th hitter walks to lead off an inning and never moves, the team still leads off the next inning with the leadoff man instead of starting with what is likely to be 1-out if the non-Zambrano pitcher starts the inning. And finally, they way that lineup is constructed......Murton (so far) and Barrett aren't slouches. Those 2 combined with the pitching staff's ability to hit would mean the 6th hitter wouldn't be wasted all that much.

 

Also, you say walks only are needed from the 1-2 hitters....well, don't you realize that a player doesn't become a good 3-4 hitter unless he walks? You are basically saying that Lee and Ramirez should hit 1-2 and Patterson and Neifi could hit 3-4, because their OBP doesn't matter. The reason Lee and Ramirez are 3-4 hitters is because they have the ability to drive in runs. They have the ability to drive in runs because they are sluggers. They have the ability to slug..........BECAUSE THEY ARE SELECTIVE HITTERS! Bottom line. Walks are important anywhere in the lineup.

[ThePenguin11]

Getting Soriano, i.e. pop from our 2b, would go a long way to being able to start Murton in LF and Pie in CF and even Cedeno at SS in 2006. As I said in a different thread, those two guys won't produce much pop (at least for a few years probably) at places where pop is expected, so if we also have non-pop at SS and 2b, 2 places where non-pop is usually standard, we wouldn't have much pop.

 

Hope that made sense.

 

My point: starting Murton, Pie and Cedeno would be totally acceptable w/ a slugging 2b, slugging RFer, Lee, ARam and Barrett at catcher IMO.

 

Holy John Maddenism!!!

[rawaction]

What about Soriano at 2B and Walker in LF?

 

And I understand his home/road splits, but I don't think they would be as pronounced as a Cub. His home numbers wouldn't be as high. But still would be pretty good. Meanwhile, I think his road numbers would be much better going from playing games in Oakland, Seattle, and Anaheim to playing in Minute Maid, Busch, GABP, Miller, and PNC.

 

Like Hoops said, I'd miss Todd. But I'd give up Walker and pitching (Rusch, Mitre ish) for Soriano and Dellucci.

 

I think that Walker loses his value if he's moved to LF. If he's at 2B he has some nice numbers but in LF he would be a below average LF IMO.

 

Wouldn't the same be true of Soriano? If they are both on the team, they both need to be in the lineup with one of them playing LF. Either way the 2B is gonna be well above average and the LF slightly below. Still LF would be upgraded immensely.