Murton

[ZZ Thorn]

Yes, that's one reason, but it's not the biggest one. Just take a look. Pujols topped out at 19 in just under 500 ABs. Cabrera hit 22 between AA and the majors in '03. There are many other examples, but those are just a couple. It's much harder to find examples of players who were hitting homers at a greater pace than Pie has this season, other than your AAAA veteran types. Pie's future is more likely as a middle-of-the-order hitter, though he may end up as a leadoff guy in the short term.

 

And thus far it hasn't been really mentioned that the Jaxx play in a pitcher's league, which just adds more value to his production. Pie's added some weight (as is to be expected of a player his age and with his frame), gotten stronger, and a lot of his doubles/triples are going over the fence now. This is the typical development process of a power hitter, and what was expected 3-4 years ago when he was an extremely raw youngster who people kept likening to Vladimir Guerrero in terms of talent and potential. And really, I'd prefer to see him bat 6-8 in the majors until he improves his plate discipline some more (in fact, this is why I don't favor him being promoted unless he absolutely blows us away) or shows that he can consistently hit over .300 at the major league level.

 

I agree nearly completely. But for 2006 having him hit 1/2 would likely be a way to help teach him plate discipline and the art of hitting, as well as to optimize what he can contribute to the team.

 

I don't see Pie displacing Lee at #3, ARam at #4 or being a #5 hitter for a couple years at least tho. Let's say we get a real slugger like Dunn, which is very possible, Pie won't crack the middle of the order for several years then. He could be a #2 hitter a la Sandberg/Nomar next year and for years to come tho.

A player doesn't learn "the art of hitting" from hitting in a spot in the batting order, ask Corey.

 

That's certainly true, but Corey didn't seem to learn anything at any time - he just got 'by' on natural talent. If Pie is the same way he'll have a similar to CP.

 

Corey Patterson - there's one guy I don't miss watching play everyday.

[Backtobanks]

What in the heck is IsoP?

 

Isolated power: SLG-AVG

 

Here we go with another obscure stat. The guy is hitting over .400 and we're worried about is ISOP. Assuming Nomar comes back with some power, we have at least average or better power at 1B, 2B (for the position), SS (for the position), 3B, RF, & C. The last time I looked, the WSox were running away with their Division without a power-hitting LF. I guess I'm too old to get excited about all of these new statistics. Give me the good old days when a guy hitting .400 should be playing. Instead, everyone wets their pants over a guy hitting .240 with 8 million strikeouts and thinks we ought to trade half our farm system for him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What in the heck is IsoP?

 

Isolated power: SLG-AVG

 

Here we go with another obscure stat. The guy is hitting over .400 and we're worried about is ISOP. Assuming Nomar comes back with some power, we have at least average or better power at 1B, 2B (for the position), SS (for the position), 3B, RF, & C. The last time I looked, the WSox were running away with their Division without a power-hitting LF. I guess I'm too old to get excited about all of these new statistics. Give me the good old days when a guy hitting .400 should be playing. Instead, everyone wets their pants over a guy hitting .240 with 8 million strikeouts and thinks we ought to trade half our farm system for him.

 

I never said that Murton shouldn't play, I was just pointing out why he might not be a long term solution, because he certainly isn't going to hit .450 for the rest of his career. Just because a statistic is unfamiliar doesn't mean it's useless or overly complicated. Heck, IsoP isn't new at all, or complicated.

[E.J.]

Just trade him. He's got no chance of playing everyday under Dusty. Bring in another crappy, I mean scrappy veteran who's marginally better than Holla. Stupid Cubs. :x

[Warpticon]

What in the heck is IsoP?

 

Isolated power: SLG-AVG

 

Here we go with another obscure stat. The guy is hitting over .400 and we're worried about is ISOP. Assuming Nomar comes back with some power, we have at least average or better power at 1B, 2B (for the position), SS (for the position), 3B, RF, & C. The last time I looked, the WSox were running away with their Division without a power-hitting LF. I guess I'm too old to get excited about all of these new statistics. Give me the good old days when a guy hitting .400 should be playing. Instead, everyone wets their pants over a guy hitting .240 with 8 million strikeouts and thinks we ought to trade half our farm system for him.

 

I don't disagree with Murton playing, but you don't seriously think he's going to hit .400 over the long run, do you? There's a difference between using stats for projection purposes (as they were used here) and deciding who should play today or who has performed the best. Since it's unlikely that Murton hits .455 for the rest of his career, people are trying to figure out what they should expect from him. i don't see why this bothers you so much.

[wastra]

I think there's room in a lineup for a guy who hits for a .300+ average, gets on base, and runs well. Namely, at the top of the order.

 

I freely admit that his ceiling is likely not one that should preclude us from picking up a real top-quality hitter for left field if one becomes available. But I think his eventual offensive production could be similar to that of maybe a Mark Grace-

.295-.310 AVG, good contact, good OBP, 10-15 homers, lots of doubles, but more footspeed. Really, a prototypical leadoff or #2 hitter.

[JGalt73]

I posted this in the GameThread, but it likely fits better here...

 

From ESPN chat with Baseball America:

 

Dave B. (Portland, OR): Hi Jim, I'm curious about Matt Murton's projections in the Majors. He's currently platooned in LF - think he can hit righties well enough to stick (Dusty Baker be darned!)?

 

Jim Callis: (3:18 PM ET ) He can hit righthanders--his bat isn't a question. Outside of his arm, he has nice all-around tools. I think he'll be a solid big league regular if Dusty Baker gives him the chance to play.

[10man]

Jim Callis: (3:18 PM ET ) He can hit righthanders--his bat isn't a question. Outside of his arm, he has nice all-around tools. I think he'll be a solid big league regular if Dusty Baker gives him the chance to play.

Absolutely Hilarious!!! :lol: :lol:

[Backtobanks]

What in the heck is IsoP?

 

Isolated power: SLG-AVG

 

Here we go with another obscure stat. The guy is hitting over .400 and we're worried about is ISOP. Assuming Nomar comes back with some power, we have at least average or better power at 1B, 2B (for the position), SS (for the position), 3B, RF, & C. The last time I looked, the WSox were running away with their Division without a power-hitting LF. I guess I'm too old to get excited about all of these new statistics. Give me the good old days when a guy hitting .400 should be playing. Instead, everyone wets their pants over a guy hitting .240 with 8 million strikeouts and thinks we ought to trade half our farm system for him.

 

I don't disagree with Murton playing, but you don't seriously think he's going to hit .400 over the long run, do you? There's a difference between using stats for projection purposes (as they were used here) and deciding who should play today or who has performed the best. Since it's unlikely that Murton hits .455 for the rest of his career, people are trying to figure out what they should expect from him. i don't see why this bothers you so much.

 

Well, I believe that when a guy is hot you play him and when a guy is in a slump you sit him. Murton won't hit .450 for the rest of his career, but there's a very good possibility he would outhit Hollandsworth. The Cubs are looking for a guy to get on base and then they platoon him. Thank God that Dusty sat him today against Tomko so that the veteran Hollandsworth could show him how it's done (3 strikeouts in the first 6 innings). Sometimes you need a little common sense instead of statistics.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What in the heck is IsoP?

 

Isolated power: SLG-AVG

 

Here we go with another obscure stat. The guy is hitting over .400 and we're worried about is ISOP. Assuming Nomar comes back with some power, we have at least average or better power at 1B, 2B (for the position), SS (for the position), 3B, RF, & C. The last time I looked, the WSox were running away with their Division without a power-hitting LF. I guess I'm too old to get excited about all of these new statistics. Give me the good old days when a guy hitting .400 should be playing. Instead, everyone wets their pants over a guy hitting .240 with 8 million strikeouts and thinks we ought to trade half our farm system for him.

 

I don't disagree with Murton playing, but you don't seriously think he's going to hit .400 over the long run, do you? There's a difference between using stats for projection purposes (as they were used here) and deciding who should play today or who has performed the best. Since it's unlikely that Murton hits .455 for the rest of his career, people are trying to figure out what they should expect from him. i don't see why this bothers you so much.

 

Well, I believe that when a guy is hot you play him and when a guy is in a slump you sit him. Murton won't hit .450 for the rest of his career, but there's a very good possibility he would outhit Hollandsworth. The Cubs are looking for a guy to get on base and then they platoon him. Thank God that Dusty sat him today against Tomko so that the veteran Hollandsworth could show him how it's done (3 strikeouts in the first 6 innings). Sometimes you need a little common sense instead of statistics.

 

Again, no one said to sit Murton. We were only talking in context of future performance, and if that was good enough to not go after a bat in LF.

[treebird]

St. Neifi (396PA, 4.4 VORP - brutal!).

 

wow, much worse than i thought.

 

GREAT evidence against all those who talk about how great neifi is for a backup shortstop. this just show that he's not great at all. he's basically replacement level.

[jaydee]

One thing is for sure. Murton does everything better than Hollandsworth. Besides hurting his shin....

[CubfaninCA]

If Murton was 27 for 27, he still wouldn't be starating. He just doesn't have Holla's experience w/ leaving men stranded on base.

[The Voice of Reason]

As further evidenced by today's game, there is no way Hollandsworth should ever start in front of Murton again. No matter what the circumstances. Case closed. End of Story.

[Backtobanks]

"Again, no one said to sit Murton. We were only talking in context of future performance, and if that was good enough to not go after a bat in LF".

 

My point is that unless he gets a chance to play how do you know if we need to go after a bat for LF. Wouldn't it be great if Murton became an everyday player with Mark Grace type of stats at the league minimum salary. Think of what all that the money we save and the prospects we save (by trading for a veteran LF) could turn into for the next 3-4 years. We have enough power, we need what Murton has shown so far in the majors and minors, the ability to get on base. Knowing the Cubs, they will make a deal and send Murton somewhere where he will be a solid everyday LF. In 2016, the Cubs will try to get Murton back at the trade deadline (Of course he will be old enough to play for the new Cub manager Darren Baker).

[hawkeyecub]

I love Murton and I've been saying he should be playing everyday for a while now.

 

But he has been one lucky man. It's not a knock on him, he's creating some of his own breaks by putting the ball in play, having decent speed and hustling everything out.

He's just had some doozies that have been recorded as hits.

[fiver]

I love Murton and I've been saying he should be playing everyday for a while now.

 

But he has been one lucky man. It's not a knock on him, he's creating some of his own breaks by putting the ball in play, having decent speed and hustling everything out.

He's just had some doozies that have been recorded as hits.

 

I'm sitting behind my desk and wasn't able to watch the game today. Describe the hit he had today that drove in the tying run, por favor.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I love Murton and I've been saying he should be playing everyday for a while now.

 

But he has been one lucky man. It's not a knock on him, he's creating some of his own breaks by putting the ball in play, having decent speed and hustling everything out.

He's just had some doozies that have been recorded as hits.

 

I'm sitting behind my desk and wasn't able to watch the game today. Describe the hit he had today that drove in the tying run, por favor.

 

Routine fly ball to medium deep RF, Tucker lost it in the sun, stepped back, and it bounced in front of him. Lee would've scored easily had it been caught.

[CubfaninCA]

I love Murton and I've been saying he should be playing everyday for a while now.

 

But he has been one lucky man. It's not a knock on him, he's creating some of his own breaks by putting the ball in play, having decent speed and hustling everything out.

He's just had some doozies that have been recorded as hits.

 

I'm sitting behind my desk and wasn't able to watch the game today. Describe the hit he had today that drove in the tying run, por favor.

 

The rf lost it in the sun. It still would have scored the run from 3rd if caught though. Murton did what he needed to do. Holla would have K'd for the 4th time.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Not allowing Murton to start 4 out of 5 games is inexcusable. He's a much better hitter than Hollandsworth. Even if he can't hit righties as well, it doesn't really matter. Hollandsworth can't hit righties either.

 

Hopefully Dusty will decide that winning is more important than his fetish for veterans and play Murton more.

 

God, I wish Bobby Cox were managing this team!

[katway]

Murton definitely should be getting the chance to play everyday. This is not a CPatt situation where you need to work him in. Murton is a college grad that has always had a good approach to hitting. He shouldn't be lumped in with every other player out there; he stands on his own like any individual. The question isn't whether AA ballers are ready for the majors, the question is whether Murton is ready for the majors. From what I've seen and read about Murton, I would have to say he is ready and I look forward to Dusty or the next coach coming to that realization.

[Brian]

Even if the ball today would have been caught he would have been 0-0 with a game tieing sac fly. Twice in his young career he's gotten a guy in from the third with less than two outs, which might not sound that impressive but considering his teamates succes it is.

[ZZ Thorn]

I love Murton and I've been saying he should be playing everyday for a while now.

 

But he has been one lucky man. It's not a knock on him, he's creating some of his own breaks by putting the ball in play, having decent speed and hustling everything out.

He's just had some doozies that have been recorded as hits.

 

I'm sitting behind my desk and wasn't able to watch the game today. Describe the hit he had today that drove in the tying run, por favor.

 

The rf lost it in the sun. It still would have scored the run from 3rd if caught though. Murton did what he needed to do. Holla would have K'd for the 4th time.

 

Definitely the key. Even with an out that pinch hit AB was a success. But why was it scored a hit if it was routine and the OFer lost it in the sun?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

But why was it scored a hit if it was routine and the OFer lost it in the sun?

 

Tucker never touched the ball, so he never technically "misplayed" it. At least that's my understanding of the rule.

[Brian]

I think they usually only give errors when it touches the glove.