Left Field: Would you rather have Murton or Dunn?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

So was Kelly Johnson really that much better a prospect this year than Jason Dubois or Matt Murton?

 

None of the three made the top 100 of BA's prospects this year.

 

 

The fact remains, regardless of where they rank, the Braves are a contending team that allows their prospects to have a chance to break in and gives them significant time to see if they are for real.

 

Let me put it this way: Hollandsworth sucked at the beginning of the year and was given about six weeks before he was replaced with Dubois. Dubois did not shine in his opportunity, I'll admit. But Hollandsworth was afforded a second chance, yet Dubois was not. Why? If a veteran can struggle and then later find his stroke, why isn't a rookie afforded the same chance?

 

Why is it assumed by Dusty that a rookie right hander can't hit right handed pitching? There's no reason to platoon Murton. He's hitting nearly 400, why not play him everyday? It's freaking ridiculous and there's no defense for it.

 

It was easy to bash Dubois and say oh well...he didn't produce, but it's indefensible to not let Murton play nearly everyday, regardless of who is pitching.

 

Just as it is indefensible not to let Cedeno play too. He can't hit any worse than Neifi.

[rickrolled]

So was Kelly Johnson really that much better a prospect this year than Jason Dubois or Matt Murton?

 

None of the three made the top 100 of BA's prospects this year.

 

 

The fact remains, regardless of where they rank, the Braves are a contending team that allows their prospects to have a chance to break in and gives them significant time to see if they are for real.

 

Let me put it this way: Hollandsworth sucked at the beginning of the year and was given about six weeks before he was replaced with Dubois. Dubois did not shine in his opportunity, I'll admit. But Hollandsworth was afforded a second chance, yet Dubois was not. Why? If a veteran can struggle and then later find his stroke, why isn't a rookie afforded the same chance?

 

Why is it assumed by Dusty that a rookie right hander can't hit right handed pitching? There's no reason to platoon Murton. He's hitting nearly 400, why not play him everyday? It's freaking ridiculous and there's no defense for it.

 

It was easy to bash Dubois and say oh well...he didn't produce, but it's indefensible to not let Murton play nearly everyday, regardless of who is pitching.

 

Just as it is indefensible not to let Cedeno play too. He can't hit any worse than Neifi.

 

It's kind of like how Dusty put Macias in today for Walker in the 9th inning...makes absolutely no sense, hurts the team, but he, inexplicably, does it anyways.

[ZZ Thorn]

So was Kelly Johnson really that much better a prospect this year than Jason Dubois or Matt Murton?

 

None of the three made the top 100 of BA's prospects this year.

 

 

The fact remains, regardless of where they rank, the Braves are a contending team that allows their prospects to have a chance to break in and gives them significant time to see if they are for real.

 

I'd say those two were about even. But why those two are succeeding or failing depends way more the individual themself than in the system. They've both gotten copious chances, Doobs did not excel. But the Twins HAVE to field that kind of team - they can't afford not too.

 

That fact does remain, but that's not very sound thinking to me. I've gone over the main reason why that fact remains - they've had much better talent. That's a pretty important explanation to that remaining fact don't you think. If you just look at the remaining fact you're really leaving out a lot.

 

Let me put it this way: Hollandsworth sucked at the beginning of the year and was given about six weeks before he was replaced with Dubois. Dubois did not shine in his opportunity, I'll admit. But Hollandsworth was afforded a second chance, yet Dubois was not. Why? If a veteran can struggle and then later find his stroke, why isn't a rookie afforded the same chance?

 

Why is it assumed by Dusty that a rookie right hander can't hit right handed pitching? There's no reason to platoon Murton. He's hitting nearly 400, why not play him everyday? It's freaking ridiculous and there's no defense for it.

 

It was easy to bash Dubois and say oh well...he didn't produce, but it's indefensible to not let Murton play nearly everyday, regardless of who is pitching.

 

Just as it is indefensible not to let Cedeno play too. He can't hit any worse than Neifi.

 

Why did Doobs not get a second chance to start? They just don't have faith in him I guess, cuz he's not here anymore. Like with Choi, who hasn't done much in his pro career. Maybe they're wrong, but they have all the facts, and they'll get burned if they're wrong ya know?

 

Murton's been up what two weeks? He's playing, if he keeps playing like he has he'll earn the starting spot don't you think? Holla was hitting very well too and benching him wouldn't have been a good move either.

 

I agree Cedeno should play more, but he is playing some and that's something. I'm happy with Neifi. He's has done pretty darn well when you factor in his gold glove caliber fielding. He's come thru in some clutch situations all year, and while his OBP sucks, his BA is good for an SS, and BA is an important stat too in my book. Same thing goes with Macias.

[Iceblink]

If we are going to get Dunn we should have just kept Sammy..

 

I don't know what that means.

 

Dunn's batting average is low and he strikes out a lot. Those are the only stats that matter for hitters.

 

Actually, I think batting average is the most overrated stat there is. Runs produced (scored, driven in, runners advanced) is the only stat that matters for a hitter. Not to be silly, but a guy can get 500 singles in 500 ABs and never score or drive in a run - batting average alone tells you little.

 

Oh, and great Av. Joo play jezz floot for us.

[E.J.]

New Question: With all of the articles out saying Kearns would love to play for the Cubs and the Cubs would love to have him (see transactions), would you rather give up decent prospects to get Kearns or would you rather just go with Murton?

[YearofDaCubs]

Back to the question of this thread, I would still rather have Dunn than Murton. He just brings more to the table.

 

That being said, we have Murton and don't currently have Dunn. We need to begin using the tools we have properly. Murton should be playing 3/4 of the time regardless of who is pitching.

 

Secondly, Murton is a contact hitter who does the little things right. He is patient and is willing to hit the ball the other way. As much as I was happy to see Todd Walker in the the 2 spot, he has more power than Murton.

 

I'd make a line-up shift.

 

Hairston

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Walker

Barrett

Burnitz

Perez

I like ur lineup but I would rather have Cedeno in there instead of Perez.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

New Question: With all of the articles out saying Kearns would love to play for the Cubs and the Cubs would love to have him (see transactions), would you rather give up decent prospects to get Kearns or would you rather just go with Murton?

 

 

I'd rather have Kearns playing over Murton, but I wouldn't deal Murton. I'd definitely give up prospects for Kearns, especially since we can't seem to produce our own position players. Obviously it would depend on the prospects, but Kearns would be a solid addition.

 

Back to the original question...i'd take Murton over Dunn for now just b/c Cinci doesn't seem to want to make any reasonable offers for Dunn. We can nab him next time around.

 

Did anyone else notice Dunn's body language in LF? He must love Cinci. :roll:

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Back to the question of this thread, I would still rather have Dunn than Murton. He just brings more to the table.

 

That being said, we have Murton and don't currently have Dunn. We need to begin using the tools we have properly. Murton should be playing 3/4 of the time regardless of who is pitching.

 

Secondly, Murton is a contact hitter who does the little things right. He is patient and is willing to hit the ball the other way. As much as I was happy to see Todd Walker in the the 2 spot, he has more power than Murton.

 

I'd make a line-up shift.

 

Hairston

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Walker

Barrett

Burnitz

Perez

I like ur lineup but I would rather have Cedeno in there instead of Perez.

 

I do too, but saying that would be like saying I'd want Cox or Fredi Gonzalez making out the line-up.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

So was Kelly Johnson really that much better a prospect this year than Jason Dubois or Matt Murton?

 

None of the three made the top 100 of BA's prospects this year.

 

 

The fact remains, regardless of where they rank, the Braves are a contending team that allows their prospects to have a chance to break in and gives them significant time to see if they are for real.

 

I'd say those two were about even. But why those two are succeeding or failing depends way more the individual themself than in the system. They've both gotten copious chances, Doobs did not excel. But the Twins HAVE to field that kind of team - they can't afford not too.

 

That fact does remain, but that's not very sound thinking to me. I've gone over the main reason why that fact remains - they've had much better talent. That's a pretty important explanation to that remaining fact don't you think. If you just look at the remaining fact you're really leaving out a lot.

 

Let me put it this way: Hollandsworth sucked at the beginning of the year and was given about six weeks before he was replaced with Dubois. Dubois did not shine in his opportunity, I'll admit. But Hollandsworth was afforded a second chance, yet Dubois was not. Why? If a veteran can struggle and then later find his stroke, why isn't a rookie afforded the same chance?

 

Why is it assumed by Dusty that a rookie right hander can't hit right handed pitching? There's no reason to platoon Murton. He's hitting nearly 400, why not play him everyday? It's freaking ridiculous and there's no defense for it.

 

It was easy to bash Dubois and say oh well...he didn't produce, but it's indefensible to not let Murton play nearly everyday, regardless of who is pitching.

 

Just as it is indefensible not to let Cedeno play too. He can't hit any worse than Neifi.

 

Why did Doobs not get a second chance to start? They just don't have faith in him I guess, cuz he's not here anymore. Like with Choi, who hasn't done much in his pro career. Maybe they're wrong, but they have all the facts, and they'll get burned if they're wrong ya know?

 

Murton's been up what two weeks? He's playing, if he keeps playing like he has he'll earn the starting spot don't you think? Holla was hitting very well too and benching him wouldn't have been a good move either.

 

I agree Cedeno should play more, but he is playing some and that's something. I'm happy with Neifi. He's has done pretty darn well when you factor in his gold glove caliber fielding. He's come thru in some clutch situations all year, and while his OBP sucks, his BA is good for an SS, and BA is an important stat too in my book. Same thing goes with Macias.

 

Cutting to the chase, we are looking at two managers who have opposite views of playing rookies. One believes you coddle the rookies, protect them, and place them only in certain situations like a righty/lefty match-up. The other manager believes you let them play and continue playing even if they first struggle. One of those managers has won 15 straight division championships.

 

You're always one to point to Dusty's alleged success as why we should give him benefit of the doubt. But there's another manager who obviously has a different view and has shown to be much more successful than Dusty. That in itself should give much credence to the argument that Dusty's teams would be more successful given a different approach.

[soapy]

Murton's been up what two weeks? He's playing, if he keeps playing like he has he'll earn the starting spot don't you think? Holla was hitting very well too and benching him wouldn't have been a good move either.

 

Murton is playing right now, but I think that's because the Cubs have faced so many lefties lately. I question whether he'll get any significant PT when they face a string of RHP. I don't think he will.

 

With Cedeno, Dusty's at the point where he won't even play him against lefties. He started yesterday, but when was his last start before that? Dusty also made is clear that the reason he was starting Cedeno was to rest Neifi for this weekend. Craptacular.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Murton's been up what two weeks? He's playing, if he keeps playing like he has he'll earn the starting spot don't you think?

 

Think about this logic for a second. It always assumes that the veteran or incumbent is better until the rookie proves otherwise. That's wrong. For the kid, it's guilty until proven innocent, but the other way around for the vet.

[Sammy Who]

Give Murton some time. Stop dealing away prospects. Adam Dunn is worse than Corey Patterson. All they can do is swing for the fences. Dunn does it more than Patterson, and has less speed.

[EricG]

Murton's been up what two weeks? He's playing, if he keeps playing like he has he'll earn the starting spot don't you think?

 

Think about this logic for a second. It always assumes that the veteran or incumbent is better until the rookie proves otherwise. That's wrong. For the kid, it's guilty until proven innocent, but the other way around for the vet.

 

shows how strong the union is. playing rookies over veterans would rock the boat too much. Dusty seems to be more on the players side then management. players like him because he is pro-union. Veteran free agents are more likely to sign with the Cubs because of Dusty.

Edited July 25, 2005 by EricG

[CubinNY]

Murton's been up what two weeks? He's playing, if he keeps playing like he has he'll earn the starting spot don't you think?

 

That is laughable.

 

I think not.