Cubs acquire Jody Gerut from Cleveland for Jason Dubois

[goonys evil twin]

His OBP has always been good, .

 

Um, no it hasn't. It was not good in 2003 or 2004.

[moorecg]

What a fantastic move. Gerut has solid plate discipline and is right at that age when he should break-out. He is far superior to Grieve or Hollandsworth, and he is younger.

 

People have been complaining about a lack of OBP for years. Now you have a 27 year old guy who was highly touted before his injury with great plate discipline, and he might stick around for a few years.

 

Where are all the OBP guys standing up for this trade?

 

Unfortunately he's past the age of breakout time. If he was going to break out, he should have done it by now. The vast majority of ballplayers are at their best at 27/28, and he's already 27 and will be 28 shortly, without doing much.

 

His 2005 OBP is solid, and so were his minor league numbers, but his 2003 and 2004 numbers were not. There's some hope that he'll be able to show off some of that OBP ability from his minor league days, but he doesn't have much time to improve on his career numbers, given his age and service time.

 

One factor that might be worth considering is that I'm pretty sure he was hurt and working through a significant injury during his 26-27 year old seasons...that might explain his lack of a "break out" and if he's healthy now, give at least some reason to believe that he could be ready for that break out at age 28.

 

Just a thought.

[frostwyrm]

Why are people excited about Gerut's career .338 OBP? I don't get it.

[TheDude]

Unfortunately he's past the age of breakout time. If he was going to break out, he should have done it by now. The vast majority of ballplayers are at their best at 27/28, and he's already 27 and will be 28 shortly, without doing much.

 

His 2005 OBP is solid, and so were his minor league numbers, but his 2003 and 2004 numbers were not. There's some hope that he'll be able to show off some of that OBP ability from his minor league days, but he doesn't have much time to improve on his career numbers, given his age and service time.

I am more optomistic. A lot of baseball folks were really high on this guy two years ago. He appeared to have a sophemore slump, then an injury.

 

I think he is a very solid pickup. He should get the majority of PT in LF.

[USSoccer]

So, assuming we keep Gerut. What's his role? Does he take Hollandsworth's spot as the LHed part of the platoon. Does he take Hairston's spot in CF? Is he simply a versatile bench player and takes Grieve's spot?

 

What's going to be the consequence of this move?

 

As much as I like Dubois, I don't think we made a bad move. Dubois was going to be of little value to the 2005 Cubs and likely wasn't in the future plans as long as Dusty was running the team. I'm just trying to figure what this move does to the configuration of the current club.

 

And even though I doubt a deal is imminent, just think where we are playing? Wouldn't it be lovely to bring Adam Dunn with us to St. Louis this weekend?

 

Excellent move. Dubois had no value to the Cubs this year or in the future; even assuming for the sake of argument that he could eventually play an adequate LF, Murton is obviously a much better prospect. Gerut should make a fine 4th OF next year and provides very good flexibility this year. Lee is going to need rest or he's gonna wear down like last year. With Gerut, Hollandworth can move to first and Gerut plays left against a tough righty. Burnitz is also gonna need rest and Gerut can spell him. Finally, the current CF is not an everyday player.

 

Not to burst the bubble of perception, but Hairston was an everyday player in Baltimore; he just kept getting hurt.

[Lebowski]

I'm not sure how this deal fits for a trade involving Hairston (who's Walker's back-up at second, and Walker is Lee's back-up at first). Perhaps for Patterson... but a more realistic scenario is that Gerut will get his shot at left field. Not a "super-star" deal, but neither of these guys are that caliber. It's a swap for need. Holla and Grieve don't have the wheels Gerut has, and as the old saying goes... defense wins championships.

[WindyCity]

Why are people excited about Gerut's career .338 OBP? I don't get it.

 

A first half with 2 sub-.300 OBP guys at the top of the order does that to people. We're OBP-starved.

[frostwyrm]

 

I think he is a very solid pickup. He should get the majority of PT in LF.

 

No way Dusty benches Hollandsworth for another lefty-hitting outfielder.

[Fanzones trumpet]

So, assuming we keep Gerut. What's his role? Does he take Hollandsworth's spot as the LHed part of the platoon. Does he take Hairston's spot in CF? Is he simply a versatile bench player and takes Grieve's spot?

 

What's going to be the consequence of this move?

 

As much as I like Dubois, I don't think we made a bad move. Dubois was going to be of little value to the 2005 Cubs and likely wasn't in the future plans as long as Dusty was running the team. I'm just trying to figure what this move does to the configuration of the current club.

 

And even though I doubt a deal is imminent, just think where we are playing? Wouldn't it be lovely to bring Adam Dunn with us to St. Louis this weekend?

 

Excellent move. Dubois had no value to the Cubs this year or in the future; even assuming for the sake of argument that he could eventually play an adequate LF, Murton is obviously a much better prospect. Gerut should make a fine 4th OF next year and provides very good flexibility this year. Lee is going to need rest or he's gonna wear down like last year. With Gerut, Hollandworth can move to first and Gerut plays left against a tough righty. Burnitz is also gonna need rest and Gerut can spell him. Finally, the current CF is not an everyday player.

 

Not to burst the bubble of perception, but Hairston was an everyday player in Baltimore; he just kept getting hurt.

 

He was an every day 2B on a bad team who was eventually supplanted by Brian Roberts ; he was not an every day OF in Baltimore. and he's not an every day CF on a playoff team. He also stands a very good chance of being dealt in the next two weeks if you read between the lines.

[LoneStarCubFan]

This moves makes the bench much, much better. Look at the options.

 

Gerut becomes the LH half of the left field platoon. Now Hollandsworth can concentrate on what he does best, pinch hit. On days Gerut starts the PH options include Hollandsworth and Murton instead of Murton and Grieve.

 

Gerut is now the only guy on the roster who can legitimately play all three outfield positions and play them well.

 

Having Gerut on the roster makes it less painful to give Lee a day off once in awhile (Holly at 1st, Gerut in LF against RH instead of Walker at first, Hairston at 2B and Macias in CF). It's also less painful to give Burnitz a day off (Gerut in RF instead of Macias).

 

One more thing to consider, re Adam Dunn. Perhaps Hairston isn't getting moved to Cincy but Walker is? Hairston then moves to 2B and Gerut to CF until CP gets back.

[WindyCity]

 

I think he is a very solid pickup. He should get the majority of PT in LF.

 

No way Dusty benches Hollandsworth for another lefty-hitting outfielder.

 

I agree -- I posted earlier in the thread that I felt Gerut would be used as a defensive sub in a similar manner as Hollandsworth when the Cubs faced a lefty starter (Holly replacing Murton, Gerut replacing Hairston). I think the Cubs are nervous about Hairston's defense and wanted a solid defensive guy that could be brought in to protect late-inning leads.

[Electron Blue]

I've read about half of these 27 pages, so I don't know if this was posted yet.

 

For those who like to care about these things, Cubs.com has updated his player page:

 

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_425506.jpg

[dalgreen]

A retread outfielder? Where does that assessment come from? And what makes you think Dubois had high trade value during last offseason? If you were a GM, would you have given up a lot to pry him from the Cubs?

 

He's a retread because he was the odd man out in a terrible OF in Cleveland. He's an incredibly dull acquisition who does nothing great. I have no problem trading Dubois, but they needed an impact bat, not another excuse for Dusty to bench the Cubs bench leadoff option on a regular basis.

 

Like many Hendry deals, this isn't a bad deal, but it's terrible redundant and barely helpful, at all. I guess he wanted a second chance to make up for that silly Bay trade.

 

Hopefully they aren't stupid enough to send down a bat after this move. It's pretty clear, they don't need 7 relievers. Sergio needs to go down and get some innings.

 

 

I'd have much rather seen Dubois added to a package for a more meaningful acquisition. Oh well, I've grown accustomed to pointless moves by the Cubs.

 

We have different definitions for retread. I view a retread as a 31-32+ player who's played for several organizations while on the downside of his career. As I said, I don't think it was a bad deal, and I hope this means Mitre can be sent down for consistent work. This was a deal, in my opinion, that won't hurt the Cubs, might not help them, but could. I'm not sold on the 27-28 year old theory. I generally give a little more room for ceiling, 26-29 years.

[thunderbird]

Whether Gerut will "break out" or not remains to be seen, but he figures to get better as he puts his torn ACL behind him. Even though the mean "breakout" age may be 27, there isn't anything magic about that age... it just happens to be the peak in the distribution. Gerut hasn't been in the league that long, so he might be expected to peak at a later age anyway, even without suffering the torn ACL. Gerut's OBP numbers his first two seasons pretty solid, considering that the vast majority of players don't step right into the majors and start posting .350+ OBP, even if that is their eventual destiny. Also, if we are going to be statheads about it, it should be noted that Gerut had an unusually low BA on balls in play last year, so his low BA (and OBP) in 2004 was probably something of a fluke compared to his true skill level.

 

Basically, this is a trade of one spare part for another. Dubois is only a year younger than Gerut and is basically one-dimensional... he is a poor defensive player and, contrary to what some people seem to think of him, he has never been that patient of a hitter in the minors. His isolated power will always be good, but he will need to hit for a high average to post a decent OBP and he seems to have too much trouble making contact to do that in the majors consistently. He can probably stick as a part-time 1B/DH, but the Cubs don't need one of those. Gerut makes a good 4th outfielder both now and in the future, and if he can get back on the development track he was on before the injury, he could be a potential starter at one of the corner outfield positions.

 

I know it is easy to become attached to guys who come up from the farm system (I do it myself), but Dubois has never been one of the top prospects. Gerut likely will never be a star, but he figures to be much more valuable to the Cubs than Dubois would have been.

[erik316wttn]

Assuming he reports to Chicago, that's all we need; to dynamite the 1-2 combo that's out us back into the race. It is obvious Baker doesn't like Hairston at all; why give him an excuse to jack with the lineup again?

 

The only way I can see Gerut fitting into the OF is in a platoon with Hairston. Gerut bats lefty so he'll see the bulk of the time in a straight L/R platoon.

 

Which would be stupid, because Hairston is the only leadoff hitter we have, and he's been doing quite well in that role. That would be a crappy way to treat him.

 

"Yeah, you've been doing great leading off, but we just got this kid from Cleveland who's gonna take most of your playing time. Thanks for nothing"

[Fanzones trumpet]

A retread outfielder? Where does that assessment come from? And what makes you think Dubois had high trade value during last offseason? If you were a GM, would you have given up a lot to pry him from the Cubs?

 

He's a retread because he was the odd man out in a terrible OF in Cleveland. He's an incredibly dull acquisition who does nothing great. I have no problem trading Dubois, but they needed an impact bat, not another excuse for Dusty to bench the Cubs bench leadoff option on a regular basis.

 

Like many Hendry deals, this isn't a bad deal, but it's terrible redundant and barely helpful, at all. I guess he wanted a second chance to make up for that silly Bay trade.

 

Hopefully they aren't stupid enough to send down a bat after this move. It's pretty clear, they don't need 7 relievers. Sergio needs to go down and get some innings.

 

 

I'd have much rather seen Dubois added to a package for a more meaningful acquisition. Oh well, I've grown accustomed to pointless moves by the Cubs.

 

It's not a pointless move; it's a very good move because it strengthens the bench significantly--particularly defensively, even if Gerut doesn't "break out" into an every day player. I feel compelled to point out that your track record on assessing trades isn't spotless. i remember you and I arguing about Ramirez at the time of the trade (you hated it). If I remember correctly, you also weren't high on the Lee trade. and I 'm pretty sure you're gonna have to eat crow on Jerome Williams too.

[Coach C]

Assuming he reports to Chicago, that's all we need; to dynamite the 1-2 combo that's out us back into the race. It is obvious Baker doesn't like Hairston at all; why give him an excuse to jack with the lineup again?

 

The only way I can see Gerut fitting into the OF is in a platoon with Hairston. Gerut bats lefty so he'll see the bulk of the time in a straight L/R platoon.

 

Which would be stupid, because Hairston is the only leadoff hitter we have, and he's been doing quite well in that role. That would be a crappy way to treat him.

 

"Yeah, you've been doing great leading off, but we just got this kid from Cleveland who's gonna take most of your playing time. Thanks for nothing"

 

That's how I was thinking as well. Not sure if Fred would have the stat of it, but I would really like to know what the Cubs record is when Hairston leads off.

 

Just a random thought.

[thunderbird]

The Cubs are 7-6 since Patterson was benched and Hairston started playing CF. They lost the first 5, then won the next 5, then lost 1 and won 2.

 

Gerut would probably produce comparable, if not better, numbers to Hairston if he took over as the CFer. Hairston really hasn't been that good lately... he is hitting .264 with a .316 OBP since he took over in CF.

[Brian]

Anybody liken this to Boston getting Doug EYECHART last year.... is he the missing piece NO, can he be a solid roleplayer... that remains to be seen.

[moorecg]

The Cubs are 7-6 since Patterson was benched and Hairston started playing CF. They lost the first 5, then won the next 5, then lost 1 and won 2.

 

Gerut would probably produce comparable, if not better, numbers to Hairston if he took over as the CFer. Hairston really hasn't been that good lately... he is hitting .264 with a .316 OBP since he took over in CF.

 

How sad is it that this is a huge improvement over what we were getting from Corey?

[CUBZ99]

Assuming he reports to Chicago, that's all we need; to dynamite the 1-2 combo that's out us back into the race. It is obvious Baker doesn't like Hairston at all; why give him an excuse to jack with the lineup again?

 

The only way I can see Gerut fitting into the OF is in a platoon with Hairston. Gerut bats lefty so he'll see the bulk of the time in a straight L/R platoon.

 

Which would be stupid, because Hairston is the only leadoff hitter we have, and he's been doing quite well in that role. That would be a crappy way to treat him.

 

"Yeah, you've been doing great leading off, but we just got this kid from Cleveland who's gonna take most of your playing time. Thanks for nothing"

 

I don't understand why the perception is that once Hairston has started leading off that he has been doing well?

 

His OBP in June was .333 and July .305, he has been getting progressively worse as the season goes on.

 

Just a thought, it is possible that the recent surge in offense is due to moving Todd Walker to the number 2 spot, and have nothing to do with Hairston.

[goonys evil twin]

It's not a pointless move; it's a very good move because it strengthens the bench significantly--particularly defensively, even if Gerut doesn't "break out" into an every day player. I feel compelled to point out that your track record on assessing trades isn't spotless. i remember you and I arguing about Ramirez at the time of the trade (you hated it). If I remember correctly, you also weren't high on the Lee trade. and I 'm pretty sure you're gonna have to eat crow on Jerome Williams too.

 

I never hated the Ramirez trade, and I didn't bad mouth the Williams acquisition.

 

I did question the Ramirez deal because I was hoping they'd lose somebody other than Hill. My big beef with the Ramirez deal was that he still needed to prove himself before everybody praised him. I was always intrigued by his ability and upside, and made a point to praise Hendry for at least going after a guy who had a chance to be a true impact player, and not the typical Cubs mediocre 32 year old. I don't have to eat crow on Williams. I said he hasn't impressed me much. He never has. I didn't predict doom and gloom with the guy. And remember, he's still got an ERA over 4 as a Cub and over 5 on the season. He's not lighting the world on fire.

 

I'm also not badmouthing this deal, I just don't think it's all that great. But if it leads to something else, cool.

 

Why don't you worry about your own opinions and stop trying to pick a fight with me? I've been wrong about many things, and I don't have a problem admitting it. But the fact remains, the Cubs have been nothing more than an 88 and 89 win team the past two years with a payroll at or near the top of the league, and they are barely on pace to win 83 games this year. Obviously the Cubs front office is not beyond questioning. If you're a Cubs fan I'd be a little more concerned with their track record than mine.

[YearofDaCubs]

It seems like some of you are happy trading Dubois for what some of you call a move to solidify our bench. If that's the case this trade is ridiculous. I'm holding hope that this is a trade to get us Huff or Dunn. I can live with Gerut in LF but he is not 100% healthy yet and we all know the crap lineups Dusty will have out in LF now.

[LoneStarCubFan]

It seems like some of you are happy trading Dubois for what some of you call a move to solidify our bench. If that's the case this trade is ridiculous. I'm holding hope that this is a trade to get us Huff or Dunn. I can live with Gerut in LF but he is not 100% healthy yet and we all know the crap lineups Dusty will have out in LF now.

 

Gerut instead of Hollandsworth? How is that crap?

[moorecg]

It seems like some of you are happy trading Dubois for what some of you call a move to solidify our bench. If that's the case this trade is ridiculous. I'm holding hope that this is a trade to get us Huff or Dunn. I can live with Gerut in LF but he is not 100% healthy yet and we all know the crap lineups Dusty will have out in LF now.

 

Gerut instead of Hollandsworth? How is that crap?

 

If absolutely nothing else, this gives Dusty one less excuse to send Macias out on the field...a net improvment in my book.