Gammons on ESPNEWS

[oldcubsfan]

Let's make it simple--Ben grieve stinks. Billy Beane dumped him, Lou Piniella called him soft and benched him, yet the numbers crunchers like him. Who's wrong here? His numbers in AAA are lousy, yet people want him on the team. Something is wrong here.

 

I'm not President of the Ben Grieve fan club. I'm just saying he's a better alternative than Macias. I would like to point out that you haven't claimed that I'm wrong about that. Do you really prefer having Macias and his .260 AVG with a .280 OBP and no power?

 

BTW - I'm not sure the fact that Beane trades a player or lets him walk suggests that the player stinks. If I recall, Beane let Tejada walk a couple years ago. And I think he traded Mulder and Hudson too. I'm not saying Grieve is as good as, or close to as good as, these guys. I'm just saying Beane "dumps" players for reasons other than ability.

And I'm just saying no other team seems to want him. So is all of baseball wrong?

[oldcubsfan]

Not to be offensive, but it is 2005. I love to have Sammy back comparing those same years.

 

I'm not offended, but I don't see how the quote above is relevant. My point was that Grieve consistently hit in the range of a .270 AVG and .370 OBP when he was in the majors. I think looking at his stats over full seasons when he got 500 ABs, rather than the 150 he's had in Iowa this year, provides a more accuate predictor of future performance. If you prefer, here's his 2004 stats over 230 ABs w/ the Brewers:

 

.261/.364/.415

I just meant to point out those stats are old and not a predictor of future preformance.

[oldcubsfan]

Ben Grieve isn't worth all the arguing. I'm sorry. The Cubs problems are not because Ben isn't with the team. for those who like him, fine. Bring him up. For those that don't see him as the answer to the many problems, fine also. sorry for carrying on, but what the heck, it's fun to talk baseball.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Not to be offensive, but it is 2005. I love to have Sammy back comparing those same years.

You realize there is one major flaw with his arguement right? Grieve is 29 right now. Sammy was 32-33 when his numbers started to drop off. There is a big difference in those 3-4 years. Also, is it really necessary to respond to the same post twice?

[oldcubsfan]

Not to be offensive, but it is 2005. I love to have Sammy back comparing those same years.

You realize there is one major flaw with his arguement right? Grieve is 29 right now. Sammy was 32-33 when his numbers started to drop off. There is a big difference in those 3-4 years. Also, is it really necessary to respond to the same post twice?

In my final response then, please answer the key question, why aren't all the contenders after him?

[imb]

On BBTN, Gammons was talking about the Cubs and Kotsay, and he said "the Cubs OBP at the top is so bad, they were going to bring up Felix Pie from AA, and then he got hurt"

 

Tell me this franchise isnt that stupid. Someone in the know tell me this wasnt going to happen.

[imb]

Lock/Merge this, I just saw it mentioned in another thread.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Not to be offensive, but it is 2005. I love to have Sammy back comparing those same years.

You realize there is one major flaw with his arguement right? Grieve is 29 right now. Sammy was 32-33 when his numbers started to drop off. There is a big difference in those 3-4 years. Also, is it really necessary to respond to the same post twice?

In my final response then, please answer the key question, why aren't all the contenders after him?

Why don't you answer my questions? Also, I am not a huge fan of Grieve, I am just trying to point out a flaw in one of your arguements. Also, why don't you ask why none of the contenders are after Macias, since he is the person that most would want Grieve to replace.

Edited July 7, 2005 by burnt out cubbie fan

[Omar]

In before lock/merge!

[CUBZ99]

Let's make it simple--Ben grieve stinks. Billy Beane dumped him, Lou Piniella called him soft and benched him, yet the numbers crunchers like him. Who's wrong here? His numbers in AAA are lousy, yet people want him on the team. Something is wrong here.

 

I'm not President of the Ben Grieve fan club. I'm just saying he's a better alternative than Macias. I would like to point out that you haven't claimed that I'm wrong about that. Do you really prefer having Macias and his .260 AVG with a .280 OBP and no power?

 

BTW - I'm not sure the fact that Beane trades a player or lets him walk suggests that the player stinks. If I recall, Beane let Tejada walk a couple years ago. And I think he traded Mulder and Hudson too. I'm not saying Grieve is as good as, or close to as good as, these guys. I'm just saying Beane "dumps" players for reasons other than ability.

 

If Grieve could play SS, 2B, 3B, CF, LF, RF, C and 1B u would be right he maybe a better option than Macias.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Let's make it simple--Ben grieve stinks. Billy Beane dumped him, Lou Piniella called him soft and benched him, yet the numbers crunchers like him. Who's wrong here? His numbers in AAA are lousy, yet people want him on the team. Something is wrong here.

 

I'm not President of the Ben Grieve fan club. I'm just saying he's a better alternative than Macias. I would like to point out that you haven't claimed that I'm wrong about that. Do you really prefer having Macias and his .260 AVG with a .280 OBP and no power?

 

BTW - I'm not sure the fact that Beane trades a player or lets him walk suggests that the player stinks. If I recall, Beane let Tejada walk a couple years ago. And I think he traded Mulder and Hudson too. I'm not saying Grieve is as good as, or close to as good as, these guys. I'm just saying Beane "dumps" players for reasons other than ability.

 

If Grieve could play SS, 2B, 3B, CF, LF, RF, C and 1B u would be right he maybe a better option than Macias.

There is a difference between being able to play and being able to play well. This is the main downfall of using that arguement with Macias.

[rocket]

if you ignore all of grieve's other batting stats and only focus on batting average (seriously have you addressed his OBP or SLG or homers?), then yeah, you might think he's worthless.

 

I can do the same! Based on Aramis's lack of stolen bases, Aramis sucks offensively.

[imb]

Hahahahahahahha, this thread is awesome, thumbs way, way up.

 

"Grieve is better than Macias"

 

"BUT HES HITTING .248 IN AAA AND NO OTHER TEAM WANTS HIM"

 

"no one else wants Macias either, I'm not saying he's a star, I'm saying he's better than Macias"

 

"YEAH RIGHT HE CANT HIT IN AAA WHY DO YOU WORSHIP HIM"

 

"I said he would be a better option off the bench than Macias, not that I thought he was great"

 

"LOL HE CANT HIT AAA WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HES GOING TO TURN INTO AN ALL-STAR, AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?"

 

"I never said that, I said that he was better than Macias, why arent you even replying to what I say"

 

"LOL IM TRYING TO DO SOME SCIENCE OVER HERE AND BLONDY IS TRYING TO MAKE OUT WITH ME"

[burnt out cubbie fan]

if you ignore all of grieve's other batting stats and only focus on batting average (seriously have you addressed his OBP or SLG or homers?), then yeah, you might think he's worthless.

 

I can do the same! Based on Aramis's lack of stolen bases, Aramis sucks offensively.

As has Barry Bonds the last 3 years before this year.

[sporrer17]

If Grieve could play SS, 2B, 3B, CF, LF, RF, C and 1B u would be right he maybe a better option than Macias.

 

#6. Send a pitcher down and promote Grieve

 

 

Who said Grieve should replace Macias? I believe the initial point was that Grieve would be a better PINCH HITTER than Macias. If you care to argue that fact, I suggest you watch Macias once in a while...Macias helps with his "versatility"...but Grieve's got a much better bat than does Macias, end of discussion.

[sethuel1]

If Grieve could play SS, 2B, 3B, CF, LF, RF, C and 1B u would be right he maybe a better option than Macias.

 

#6. Send a pitcher down and promote Grieve

 

 

Who said Grieve should replace Macias? I believe the initial point was that Grieve would be a better PINCH HITTER than Macias. If you care to argue that fact, I suggest you watch Macias once in a while...Macias helps with his "versatility"...but Grieve's got a much better bat than does Macias, end of discussion.

 

Yeah, he has a nice bat, but does he have good body language?

[rocket]

If Grieve could play SS, 2B, 3B, CF, LF, RF, C and 1B u would be right he maybe a better option than Macias.

 

#6. Send a pitcher down and promote Grieve

 

 

Who said Grieve should replace Macias? I believe the initial point was that Grieve would be a better PINCH HITTER than Macias. If you care to argue that fact, I suggest you watch Macias once in a while...Macias helps with his "versatility"...but Grieve's got a much better bat than does Macias, end of discussion.

 

Yeah, he has a nice bat, but does he have good body language?

 

i saw him in aaa once he struck out and then he started smiling i was like "oml he doesn't even care no wonder no team is trying to trade for you, you bum"

[sporrer17]

Yeah, he has a nice bat, but does he have good body language?

 

I can't confirm that he does or does not...but a friend of a friend of a friend, who's dog once did its business in my yard told me that he saw him at the Supermarket, and while he was picking out fruit, he seemed to be unhappy with the watermelon selection....

 

Can we afford to have a guy who treats his melons that way on our roster? :lol:

 

 

*disclaimer*this post is in no way shape or form representative of how my humor is on a good night...this is an off night, do not pass judgement on one sorry attempt*

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Yeah, he has a nice bat, but does he have good body language?

 

I can't confirm that he does or does not...but a friend of a friend of a friend, who's dog once did its business in my yard told me that he saw him at the Supermarket, and while he was picking out fruit, he seemed to be unhappy with the watermelon selection....

 

Can we afford to have a guy who treats his melons that way on our roster? :lol:

 

 

*disclaimer*this post is in no way shape or form representative of how my humor is on a good night...this is an off night, do not pass judgement on one sorry attempt*

Good thing you had that disclaimer. :P

[Flames24Rulz]

this is definitely heading toward rants.

 

and how can ANYONE consider Macias a better option than Grieve?

[sporrer17]

Good thing you had that disclaimer. :P

 

I'm a heads up guy...I know I'm not funny, so I have to cover myself...

[son of sanford and son]

Good grief, he isn't hitting minor league pitching, he's hitting a blazing .248 at AAA. Give it up, this guy is NOT a major league player.

 

You don't get it. No one is saying Grieve is great, or should start. All he has to do is take a walk to be an improvement over what has been coming off the bench. It's not like anyone on the bench is that much better (aside from Cedeno), particularly Macias. Swapping out Macias for Grieve would be a world of improvement.

 

Grieve is more of a major league player than Macias is or Wilson was, and they were on the team.

 

I saw Grieve play at a game at Round Rock. Poor attitude / body language. Seemed unprofessional to me. While I don't like Macias' role with the Cubs, but I'd prefer his hustle and effort to seeing Grieve at Wrigley.

Gee, you think that's what all the other teams see too. But he takes a walk. Nothing worse than experts who never see a guy play. Seriously, thanks for your insight. I was thinking I was alone in not think Big Ben was the salvation.

Ted, is that you??!

[ZZ Thorn]

Not to be offensive, but it is 2005. I love to have Sammy back comparing those same years.

You realize there is one major flaw with his arguement right? Grieve is 29 right now. Sammy was 32-33 when his numbers started to drop off. There is a big difference in those 3-4 years. Also, is it really necessary to respond to the same post twice?

In my final response then, please answer the key question, why aren't all the contenders after him?

 

You OBP fundamentalists... there's more to life than OBP, one day you'll realize that.

 

Grieve sucks. Nobody wants him because of my preceeding statement. LOL, he can't even hit in AAA, but that doesn't mean much I guess. To me it does. I'd call up Kelton before I called up washed-up Grieve.

[ZZ Thorn]

If we get Kotsay I'd be very satisfied. He's not the greatest leadoff hitter, but he is bonafide and we need a bonafide leadoff hitter BIG TIME. Getting a real leadoff hitter sure would take a lot of pressure off CP I'd imagine. Dempster has solidified the troublesome closer spot, Kotsay would solidify the troublesome leadoff spot.

 

Mark Kotsay=Todd Walker

 

Todd Walker as a lead off hitter over the last 3 years (602 at bats)

 

.297/.353/.477/.830

97 runs scored/51 walks.

 

Mark Kotsay as a lead off hitter over the last 3 years (770 at bats)

.310/.363/.474/.837

99 runs scored/64 walks.

 

We have a guy just like Mark Kotsay in Todd Walker, and he's had a total of 2 at bats in the lead off spot this year. A quality lead off hitter is certainly a need.

 

Some good points, and Walker would be good in the leadoff spot, but wouldn't Kotsay be better? He doesn't have SB speed but he has good basepath speed, more than Walker certainly. I think Kotsay/Walker 1-2 would be a pretty good tandem. They would see a LOT of pitches - sure would be nice to see that from our top of the order.

 

To me Walker is a great #2 hitter - ARam is back, he doesn't need protection anymore. I hope Dusty regains his senses and puts Walker back at #2.

[soapy]

Grieve sucks.

 

That may be, but do you really think he's worse than Macias? I mean that's what were talking about here. Nobody is claiming that Grieve is some outstanding player. The point is, he's better than Macias. As is Kelton for that matter. It seems fairly obvious to me.