Gammons on ESPNEWS

[XZero771679666304]

Good grief, he isn't hitting minor league pitching, he's hitting a blazing .248 at AAA. Give it up, this guy is NOT a major league player.

 

You don't get it. No one is saying Grieve is great, or should start. All he has to do is take a walk to be an improvement over what has been coming off the bench. It's not like anyone on the bench is that much better (aside from Cedeno), particularly Macias. Swapping out Macias for Grieve would be a world of improvement.

 

Grieve is more of a major league player than Macias is or Wilson was, and they were on the team.

[oldcubsfan]

Good grief, he isn't hitting minor league pitching, he's hitting a blazing .248 at AAA. Give it up, this guy is NOT a major league player.

 

You don't get it. No one is saying Grieve is great, or should start. All he has to do is take a walk to be an improvement over what has been coming off the bench. It's not like anyone on the bench is that much better (aside from Cedeno), particularly Macias. Swapping out Macias for Grieve would be a world of improvement.

 

Grieve is more of a major league player than Macias is or Wilson was, and they were on the team.

You are right, the whole season would have been better if Big Ben were here to get a pinch hit walk.

[TXCubsFan]

I got home early today and just happened to flip over to The Hot List on ESPN News. They're currently having a discussion with Gammons and Stark about random baseball items.

 

They were discussing the play Kotsay made last night and then the possibility of him being moved. He said Beane is talking to his agent about locking him up, but right now the Cubs are the team that he's been talking to. They haven't been able to make anything work yet, but he thought that was the place that made the most sense, not the Yankees.

 

But then he followed that up by saying that if Felix Pie hadn't gotten injured a couple weeks ago, he would have been called up already and would be hitting leadoff for us.

 

I kind of expect anything with Kotsay to drag a little bit - at least through the break. We can outbid the Yankees in terms of prospects, but we wouldn't necessarily need to add Kotsay if we're selling.

 

I disagree. Kotsay would be an excellent addition for this year and next, which would give Felix more time to hone the finer aspects of his game.

[E.J.]

Good grief, he isn't hitting minor league pitching, he's hitting a blazing .248 at AAA. Give it up, this guy is NOT a major league player.

 

You don't get it. No one is saying Grieve is great, or should start. All he has to do is take a walk to be an improvement over what has been coming off the bench. It's not like anyone on the bench is that much better (aside from Cedeno), particularly Macias. Swapping out Macias for Grieve would be a world of improvement.

 

Grieve is more of a major league player than Macias is or Wilson was, and they were on the team.

You are right, the whole season would have been better if Big Ben were here to get a pinch hit walk.

 

And you're right. It's the best thing for the team having Macias come up in critical situations. It always works out for us.

[wekse]

Good grief, he isn't hitting minor league pitching, he's hitting a blazing .248 at AAA. Give it up, this guy is NOT a major league player.

 

You don't get it. No one is saying Grieve is great, or should start. All he has to do is take a walk to be an improvement over what has been coming off the bench. It's not like anyone on the bench is that much better (aside from Cedeno), particularly Macias. Swapping out Macias for Grieve would be a world of improvement.

 

Grieve is more of a major league player than Macias is or Wilson was, and they were on the team.

You are right, the whole season would have been better if Big Ben were here to get a pinch hit walk.

 

that's not what he's saying, you're just trolling for an argument....grieve is a better ballplayer and just as flexible in the field as macias, that's all anyone is saying

[Outshined_One]

Good grief, he isn't hitting minor league pitching, he's hitting a blazing .248 at AAA. Give it up, this guy is NOT a major league player.

 

You don't get it. No one is saying Grieve is great, or should start. All he has to do is take a walk to be an improvement over what has been coming off the bench. It's not like anyone on the bench is that much better (aside from Cedeno), particularly Macias. Swapping out Macias for Grieve would be a world of improvement.

 

Grieve is more of a major league player than Macias is or Wilson was, and they were on the team.

You are right, the whole season would have been better if Big Ben were here to get a pinch hit walk.

 

Yesterday's game would have been improvement if Grieve had taken Macias' AB with the bases loaded and drawn a walk...

[bhogg]

you can't put CPatt in LF.

 

it's an established fact that you can't just throw a guy in Wrigley's left field. It's too hard. I don't care who you are.

 

Of course, we could make CPatt our back up 1B. Any ol' tom, dick, or todd can do that.

[TXCubsFan]

Good grief, he isn't hitting minor league pitching, he's hitting a blazing .248 at AAA. Give it up, this guy is NOT a major league player.

 

You don't get it. No one is saying Grieve is great, or should start. All he has to do is take a walk to be an improvement over what has been coming off the bench. It's not like anyone on the bench is that much better (aside from Cedeno), particularly Macias. Swapping out Macias for Grieve would be a world of improvement.

 

Grieve is more of a major league player than Macias is or Wilson was, and they were on the team.

 

I saw Grieve play at a game at Round Rock. Poor attitude / body language. Seemed unprofessional to me. While I don't like Macias' role with the Cubs, I'd prefer his hustle and effort to seeing Grieve at Wrigley.

Edited July 7, 2005 by TXCubsFan

[oldcubsfan]

Good grief, he isn't hitting minor league pitching, he's hitting a blazing .248 at AAA. Give it up, this guy is NOT a major league player.

 

You don't get it. No one is saying Grieve is great, or should start. All he has to do is take a walk to be an improvement over what has been coming off the bench. It's not like anyone on the bench is that much better (aside from Cedeno), particularly Macias. Swapping out Macias for Grieve would be a world of improvement.

 

Grieve is more of a major league player than Macias is or Wilson was, and they were on the team.

 

I saw Grieve play at a game at Round Rock. Poor attitude / body language. Seemed unprofessional to me. While I don't like Macias' role with the Cubs, but I'd prefer his hustle and effort to seeing Grieve at Wrigley.

Gee, you think that's what all the other teams see too. But he takes a walk. Nothing worse than experts who never see a guy play. Seriously, thanks for your insight. I was thinking I was alone in not think Big Ben was the salvation.

[Tracer Bullet]

Good grief, he isn't hitting minor league pitching, he's hitting a blazing .248 at AAA. Give it up, this guy is NOT a major league player.

 

You don't get it. No one is saying Grieve is great, or should start. All he has to do is take a walk to be an improvement over what has been coming off the bench. It's not like anyone on the bench is that much better (aside from Cedeno), particularly Macias. Swapping out Macias for Grieve would be a world of improvement.

 

Grieve is more of a major league player than Macias is or Wilson was, and they were on the team.

 

I saw Grieve play at a game at Round Rock. Poor attitude / body language. Seemed unprofessional to me. While I don't like Macias' role with the Cubs, but I'd prefer his hustle and effort to seeing Grieve at Wrigley.

Gee, you think that's what all the other teams see too. But he takes a walk. Nothing worse than experts who never see a guy play. Seriously, thanks for your insight. I was thinking I was alone in not think Big Ben was the salvation.

 

Is that my old high school baseball coach? Thinking walks are a wasted at-bat and guys that take them are "soft hitters." Yes Grieve may strike out a bit - taking pitches leads to more walks and more Ks. But if you're going to strike out, at least make the pitcher throw 5 or 6 pitches first.

 

I don't think Grieve is the salvation (I don't think anyone has said that). But when Player A is on your bench hitting .264/.280/.333 and you have Player B in the minors hitting .248/.367/.530 (with 12 homers in 150 ABs), it makes no sense to keep Player A on the team. At the very least bring Grieve up to improve your bench.

[oldcubsfan]

You're right. A guy can't hit minor league pitching probably will do better against major league pitching.

[CubinNY]

You're right. A guy can't hit minor league pitching probably will do better against major league pitching.

 

Why do you intentionally misrepresent the point other people make?

 

So you are saying I'm a troll

[oldcubsfan]

You're right. A guy can't hit minor league pitching probably will do better against major league pitching.

 

Why do you intentionally misrepresent the point other people make?

 

So you are saying I'm a troll

 

What is misrepresented? A .248 average in AAA?

 

I know Hendry is waiting to get Bobby Crosby for this star. Give it up. People think he's a player and he isn't.

[tbird]

did you watch grieve with the brewers last year. that should answer your questions about his ability.

[CubinNY]

 

I don't think Grieve is the salvation (I don't think anyone has said that). But when Player A is on your bench hitting .264/.280/.333 and you have Player B in the minors hitting .248/.367/.530 (with 12 homers in 150 ABs), it makes no sense to keep Player A on the team. At the very least bring Grieve up to improve your bench.

 

That is what that guy wrote. And you wrote

 

You're right. A guy can't hit minor league pitching probably will do better against major league pitching.

 

Don't pretend you were not misrepresenting what this person wrote.

[oldcubsfan]

I did and that's why he's in AAA hitting the blazing 248.

[oldcubsfan]

 

I don't think Grieve is the salvation (I don't think anyone has said that). But when Player A is on your bench hitting .264/.280/.333 and you have Player B in the minors hitting .248/.367/.530 (with 12 homers in 150 ABs), it makes no sense to keep Player A on the team. At the very least bring Grieve up to improve your bench.

 

That is what that guy wrote. And you wrote

 

You're right. A guy can't hit minor league pitching probably will do better against major league pitching.

 

Don't pretend you were not misrepresenting what this person wrote.

I didn't misrepresent anything.

[oldcubsfan]

Let's make it simple--Ben grieve stinks. Billy Beane dumped him, Lou Piniella called him soft and benched him, yet the numbers crunchers like him. Who's wrong here? His numbers in AAA are lousy, yet people want him on the team. Something is wrong here.

[Rooftop Bum]

If the Cubs do get Kotsay I hope it's really, really soon. Like tomorrow. LOL! I mean something needs to be done really soon because the ship is sinking to fast...especially with Lee getting injured.

[rickrolled]

Let's make it simple--Ben grieve stinks. Billy Beane dumped him, Lou Piniella called him soft and benched him, yet the numbers crunchers like him. Who's wrong here? His numbers in AAA are lousy, yet people want him on the team. Something is wrong here.

 

Isn't Macias' .280 OBP pretty lousy?

[Tracer Bullet]

You're right. A guy can't hit minor league pitching probably will do better against major league pitching.

 

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly. I also would rather have the guy who can "do better" against major league pitching. Here are the ML career stats for 2 players in the Cubs organization. You tell me which one "will do better against major league pitching."

 

Player A - .257/.300/.376 (hasn't had an OBP over .300 since '01)

 

Player B - .269/.368/.442 (hasn't had an OBP under .300...ever).

 

I think you can figure out that Player A is Macias, and B is Grieve. I'd rather have Grieve as a PH/sub because I like guys that make fewer outs. If he gets on base at a .370 clip - I'll take that over Macias and his sub-.300 OBP.

 

In fact, here's Grieve's stats for the 4 seasons in which he played approximately 150 games/year, which gives us a better sample size (OBP/SLG/AVG):

 

 

1998 Oakland Athletics .386 .458 .288

1999 Oakland Athletics .358 .481 .265

2000 Oakland Athletics .359 .487 .279

2001 Tampa Bay Devil Rays .372 .387 .264

 

Guy you want as a starting corner OF - no. Guy you wouldn't mind coming off the bench, at least when Macias is the alternative - yes.

[oldcubsfan]

Not to be offensive, but it is 2005. I love to have Sammy back comparing those same years.

[oldcubsfan]

 

I don't think Grieve is the salvation (I don't think anyone has said that). But when Player A is on your bench hitting .264/.280/.333 and you have Player B in the minors hitting .248/.367/.530 (with 12 homers in 150 ABs), it makes no sense to keep Player A on the team. At the very least bring Grieve up to improve your bench.

 

That is what that guy wrote. And you wrote

 

You're right. A guy can't hit minor league pitching probably will do better against major league pitching.

 

Don't pretend you were not misrepresenting what this person wrote.

 

>248 in AAA sucks, nothing is misrepresented.

[Tracer Bullet]

Let's make it simple--Ben grieve stinks. Billy Beane dumped him, Lou Piniella called him soft and benched him, yet the numbers crunchers like him. Who's wrong here? His numbers in AAA are lousy, yet people want him on the team. Something is wrong here.

 

I'm not President of the Ben Grieve fan club. I'm just saying he's a better alternative than Macias. I would like to point out that you haven't claimed that I'm wrong about that. Do you really prefer having Macias and his .260 AVG with a .280 OBP and no power?

 

BTW - I'm not sure the fact that Beane trades a player or lets him walk suggests that the player stinks. If I recall, Beane let Tejada walk a couple years ago. And I think he traded Mulder and Hudson too. I'm not saying Grieve is as good as, or close to as good as, these guys. I'm just saying Beane "dumps" players for reasons other than ability.

[Tracer Bullet]

Not to be offensive, but it is 2005. I love to have Sammy back comparing those same years.

 

I'm not offended, but I don't see how the quote above is relevant. My point was that Grieve consistently hit in the range of a .270 AVG and .370 OBP when he was in the majors. I think looking at his stats over full seasons when he got 500 ABs, rather than the 150 he's had in Iowa this year, provides a more accuate predictor of future performance. If you prefer, here's his 2004 stats over 230 ABs w/ the Brewers:

 

.261/.364/.415