Sick of this team

[GaryWoods]

Goony just loves Henry Blanco and wants to see him get more playing time.

 

I personally don't ever want Blanco to play. Every time I hear his name, I hear Slim Whitman singing "Una Paloma Blanca" for some reason.

[JC]

Goony just loves Henry Blanco and wants to see him get more playing time.

 

I personally don't ever want Blanco to play. Every time I hear his name, I hear Slim Whitman singing "Una Paloma Blanca" for some reason.

 

Blanco has made Bako's last few seasons appear to be Johnny Bench-esque.

 

Even without considering the length of the contract (2 years), that was money poorly spent.

[DurbanJer]

Hendry's lack of moves during free agency + Baker's lack of managerial skills= Cubs Suck

 

Where do we draw the line? Is it Baker and his coaches and they're inability to get the team to play good fundamental baseball or is it Hendry's recently poor decisions in acquiring the talent that can play that type of game?

[goonys evil twin]

Hendry's lack of moves during free agency + Baker's lack of managerial skills= Cubs Suck

 

Where do we draw the line? Is it Baker and his coaches and they're inability to get the team to play good fundamental baseball or is it Hendry's recently poor decisions in acquiring the talent that can play that type of game?

 

I don't think it's one or the other.

[YearofDaCubs]

Hendry's lack of moves during free agency + Baker's lack of managerial skills= Cubs Suck

 

Where do we draw the line? Is it Baker and his coaches and they're inability to get the team to play good fundamental baseball or is it Hendry's recently poor decisions in acquiring the talent that can play that type of game?

Personally, I think it's both. There's a good chance we can fall to 4th place within our division by the end of the week. That's not good.

[brfahey]

Hendry's lack of moves during free agency + Baker's lack of managerial skills= Cubs Suck

 

Where do we draw the line? Is it Baker and his coaches and they're inability to get the team to play good fundamental baseball or is it Hendry's recently poor decisions in acquiring the talent that can play that type of game?

Personally, I think it's both. There's a good chance we can fall to 4th place within our division by the end of the week. That's not good.

 

I find it amazing that I began this thread as a criticism of the performance of some of the players on this team and it gets back to being either Hendry or Baker's fault. This team is the same team it has been all year, ie the one Hendry assembled and the one Baker has to work with. This team stinks right now because players aren't performing. Period. Quit making escuses for these guys. Barrett is not new to the catching position. Patterson doesn't hit, no matter where he is in the lineup. Etc. This team failures are ones of performance and execution.

[Chocolate Milk]

I am sick of being sick of this team.

[YearofDaCubs]

Hendry's lack of moves during free agency + Baker's lack of managerial skills= Cubs Suck

 

Where do we draw the line? Is it Baker and his coaches and they're inability to get the team to play good fundamental baseball or is it Hendry's recently poor decisions in acquiring the talent that can play that type of game?

Personally, I think it's both. There's a good chance we can fall to 4th place within our division by the end of the week. That's not good.

 

I find it amazing that I began this thread as a criticism of the performance of some of the players on this team and it gets back to being either Hendry or Baker's fault. This team is the same team it has been all year, ie the one Hendry assembled and the one Baker has to work with. This team stinks right now because players aren't performing. Period. Quit making escuses for these guys. Barrett is not new to the catching position. Patterson doesn't hit, no matter where he is in the lineup. Etc. This team failures are ones of performance and execution.

I'm not making excuses for the guys, I think some of them need to go, but we have too many of the same type of player and that is a problem.

[wastra]

Hendry's lack of moves during free agency + Baker's lack of managerial skills= Cubs Suck

 

Where do we draw the line? Is it Baker and his coaches and they're inability to get the team to play good fundamental baseball or is it Hendry's recently poor decisions in acquiring the talent that can play that type of game?

 

 

It's both.

 

First off, You don't see many players "change" their approach, so that's not really the accusatio nagainst Baker. You don't typically find a guy who has had bad plate discipline throughout his career and is impatient suddenly become patient because the manager tells him to or vice versa. Sosa in 1998 is one of the very few exceptions to that. The problem is that the roster is assembled from guys who have bad approaches, and then those guys on that roster are horribly misused by the manager so as not to maximise the strengths they DO bring to the team.

 

On one hand, you have a GM putting players with bad approaches on the roster. On the other, you have a manager who continues to preach that approach.

 

Add in mismanagement of the 40-man roster, horrible logic-defying lineups and batting orders, horrible decision making with pitcher use, and absolutely no plan in the hiring of bullpen personel and you've got a recipe for exactly what we're getting-

 

A poorly-built, poorly-managed team with 3 talented but very raw starting pitchers.

[cubweiser03]

Im sick of baseball right now. No really explain this to me and i might change my mind.

 

Nationals 50-32

Cubs 40-41

 

Nationals 337-338 runs scored

Cubs 363-364 runs scored

 

Eh? Baseball is such a silly game.

[dime]

I find it amazing that I began this thread as a criticism of the performance of some of the players on this team and it gets back to being either Hendry or Baker's fault.

 

hi, welcome to the forum...home more boors & bernstein wannabees than you can shake a stick at!

[Soul]

Im sick of baseball right now. No really explain this to me and i might change my mind.

 

Nationals 50-32

Cubs 40-41

 

Nationals 337-338 runs scored

Cubs 363-364 runs scored

 

Eh? Baseball is such a silly game.

 

Hehe. Yeah---the Nationals get better pitching though, and they score more timely runs. Especially late.

 

#of runs is only part of the picture. Take a one-game season: If I lose 11-8 trying to come back from an 11-0 deficit, and my rival wins 2-1 in a close game won on a single in the 12th inning, my rival goes to the playoffs despite my scoring 300% more runs :) They have better pitching, and they score more timely runs---they're the better team even though almost all the offensive numbers show otherwise.

 

This Cubbie team (like many others) is alot like the team that lost 11-8. We struggle because frankly we suck when it counts, then pad our numbers when it doesn't.

 

That's why I seldom engage in the stats wars that frequently rage on these forums. Stats are only part of the picture, and they can easily be arranged and reported in whatever way suits a particular argument. But ask yourself this in November: who won the World Series? That can't be slanted in any way whatsoever---and hence it is the only thing that matters.

[goonys evil twin]

I find it amazing that I began this thread as a criticism of the performance of some of the players on this team and it gets back to being either Hendry or Baker's fault. This team is the same team it has been all year, ie the one Hendry assembled and the one Baker has to work with. This team stinks right now because players aren't performing. Period. Quit making escuses for these guys. Barrett is not new to the catching position. Patterson doesn't hit, no matter where he is in the lineup. Etc. This team failures are ones of performance and execution.

 

Who is making excuses? Hendry put together a second rate team, Baker manages likes a second rate coach, and the team is players are playing like a second rate team. Why does everybody have to divide it up into black and white. It's not players vs manager, or manager vs front office. The entire organization has failed. Most of the players, most of the coaching staff and most of the front office personel have failed to do their job, that's why the team isn't as good as it should and could be.

[badgercub]

I find it amazing that I began this thread as a criticism of the performance of some of the players on this team and it gets back to being either Hendry or Baker's fault. This team is the same team it has been all year, ie the one Hendry assembled and the one Baker has to work with. This team stinks right now because players aren't performing. Period. Quit making escuses for these guys. Barrett is not new to the catching position. Patterson doesn't hit, no matter where he is in the lineup. Etc. This team failures are ones of performance and execution.

 

Who is making excuses? Hendry put together a second rate team, Baker manages likes a second rate coach, and the team is players are playing like a second rate team. Why does everybody have to divide it up into black and white. It's not players vs manager, or manager vs front office. The entire organization has failed. Most of the players, most of the coaching staff and most of the front office personel have failed to do their job, that's why the team isn't as good as it should and could be.

 

Again, not an excuse, but don't forget the injuries

[goonys evil twin]

I find it amazing that I began this thread as a criticism of the performance of some of the players on this team and it gets back to being either Hendry or Baker's fault. This team is the same team it has been all year, ie the one Hendry assembled and the one Baker has to work with. This team stinks right now because players aren't performing. Period. Quit making escuses for these guys. Barrett is not new to the catching position. Patterson doesn't hit, no matter where he is in the lineup. Etc. This team failures are ones of performance and execution.

 

Who is making excuses? Hendry put together a second rate team, Baker manages likes a second rate coach, and the team is players are playing like a second rate team. Why does everybody have to divide it up into black and white. It's not players vs manager, or manager vs front office. The entire organization has failed. Most of the players, most of the coaching staff and most of the front office personel have failed to do their job, that's why the team isn't as good as it should and could be.

 

Again, not an excuse, but don't forget the injuries

 

Many of which could have been predicted. Kerry Wood hurt? Surprise. Nomar hurt? Shocking. Fox blowing out his arm?

 

 

Every team has big time players get hurt. When you build a fragile team, with enormous weaknesses, the injuries will happen and your weaknesses will be exposed.

[badgercub]

I find it amazing that I began this thread as a criticism of the performance of some of the players on this team and it gets back to being either Hendry or Baker's fault. This team is the same team it has been all year, ie the one Hendry assembled and the one Baker has to work with. This team stinks right now because players aren't performing. Period. Quit making escuses for these guys. Barrett is not new to the catching position. Patterson doesn't hit, no matter where he is in the lineup. Etc. This team failures are ones of performance and execution.

 

Who is making excuses? Hendry put together a second rate team, Baker manages likes a second rate coach, and the team is players are playing like a second rate team. Why does everybody have to divide it up into black and white. It's not players vs manager, or manager vs front office. The entire organization has failed. Most of the players, most of the coaching staff and most of the front office personel have failed to do their job, that's why the team isn't as good as it should and could be.

 

Again, not an excuse, but don't forget the injuries

 

Many of which could have been predicted. Kerry Wood hurt? Surprise. Nomar hurt? Shocking. Fox blowing out his arm?

 

 

Every team has big time players get hurt. When you build a fragile team, with enormous weaknesses, the injuries will happen and your weaknesses will be exposed.

 

I totally agree. Not using that as an excuse, and injuries do happen, but they have also contributed to the worse than expected record. It has just been a convergence of many different things that have formed the "Perfect Storm"

[Soul]

I find it amazing that I began this thread as a criticism of the performance of some of the players on this team and it gets back to being either Hendry or Baker's fault. This team is the same team it has been all year, ie the one Hendry assembled and the one Baker has to work with. This team stinks right now because players aren't performing. Period. Quit making escuses for these guys. Barrett is not new to the catching position. Patterson doesn't hit, no matter where he is in the lineup. Etc. This team failures are ones of performance and execution.

 

Who is making excuses? Hendry put together a second rate team, Baker manages likes a second rate coach, and the team is players are playing like a second rate team. Why does everybody have to divide it up into black and white. It's not players vs manager, or manager vs front office. The entire organization has failed. Most of the players, most of the coaching staff and most of the front office personel have failed to do their job, that's why the team isn't as good as it should and could be.

 

Again, not an excuse, but don't forget the injuries

 

Many of which could have been predicted. Kerry Wood hurt? Surprise. Nomar hurt? Shocking. Fox blowing out his arm?

 

 

Every team has big time players get hurt. When you build a fragile team, with enormous weaknesses, the injuries will happen and your weaknesses will be exposed.

 

I totally agree. Not using that as an excuse, and injuries do happen, but they have also contributed to the worse than expected record. It has just been a convergence of many different things that have formed the "Perfect Storm"

 

Not only could they have been predicted---many of us actually did predict the injuries to Wood, Garciaparra, Prior. It didn't take a great deal of insight to figure out if guys like Prior & Wood can't even make it through a training camp (in Prior's case, couldn't even make it *TO* training camp) without suffering injury that something will likely sideline them once again. In Woody's case 2004 he made it to what? Mid-May before injury? I forget-----it's an ability that serves you well when you've been a fan of this franchise for more than 3 decades.

 

And Garciaparra is made of fine China. Everyone knows that. I was SHOCKED at that signing. It was terrible. Guess what? Nomar will struggle through whatever season he has left in '05 and *suprise*---he'll lose a significant portion of '06 to injury as well. Wow, I must be psychic. :roll:

 

Even with all our starters, this still isn't a playoff team anyway. The outfield is junk, and the bullpen is a 3-run jack waiting to happen. Again--we said it in February. The fact that it's happening in July was forseen by lowly fans. Why is Cubs management being paid a King's ransom when they can't see it?

 

Or maybe they CAN see it-----but tickets sell out in February so why bother going through the pain and effort of putting together a team that holds together through October? Seems like that's the way of things around here, even if it isn't true.

 

If I'm just being negative, then I apologize to everyone. But this is a movie I've seen 30 times. Saw the movie, rented the DVD, bought the T-Shirt. And so has everyone else. Hope springs eternal I guess.

[Kellehers homer]

Personally, I don't blame Dusty too much. He makes some poor decisions, sure, but he got us further than anyone else. And hey, if Hawkins serves up a couple dozen fewer gopher balls last year, that team makes the Wild Card in 2004. Dusty can only work with the hand he's been dealt.

 

I think the problem lies more with the team Hendry has put together. People worship him for getting Ramirez and Lofton in 2003 -- hey, great moves. But what have you done for me lately, Jim? I agree with what was said before: Building around Nomar was a foolish move. Same with Wood. And he let Sosa and Alou go and replaced them with... Jeromy Burnitz? Are you kidding me? This guy's do-or-die swing would look great in my softball league, but not so much when we've got runners on second and third and two out. He's a semi-decent player, at best, but that outfield is a joke. (I'm not even going to get into Patterson -- I'd be happy if they traded him for a bag of Chee-to's. The regular ones, of course -- not those nasty puffed ones.)

 

But, to me, the larger point is this: Who is the last good position player the Cubs have produced? Hee Seop Choi? (Okay, yes, Hendry turned him into Derrek Lee. Very nice. I'm not saying Hendry is awful; I'm just saying I look out at the Cubs these days and I see one that's producing z-i-l-c-h.) Corey Patterson? Jason Dubois? I mean, come on now. Seriously. That's a PATHETIC track record. Are the best players we can produce Wood and Prior? Even they've been less than stunning, given their propensity for injury. I see no one on this team who wows me who's come up through the organization, and that's pretty absurd. I simply cannot understand how teams like the Indians, Marlins, Twins, and even -- god help me -- the White Sox can put together strong teams on small payrolls, while the Tribune has more money than god and fields a team that makes us cover our eyes in shame.

 

I'm all for backing up the truck and absolutely gutting this team. Wood? So long. Thanks for the memories of that 20-strikeout game... and completely wetting the bed in Game 7 of 2003. Corey? Maybe you can hit 200 Ks somewhere else. Walker? Take your arthritic range and oh-so-dreamy stubble on the road. Barrett? Ehh. You can stay, I guess. Bullpen? So long (except for you, Dempster). Hollandsworth? You can stay at the end of the bench. Burnitz? Have a good softball career, hitting 7-run homers.

 

I would trade all those stiffs for some good prospects. Build around Lee, Ramirez, Dempster, Barrett (I guess), Prior, and Zambrano (after hooking him up with a good shrink). Bring up Pie, Hill, Patterson (the other one), Aardsma, and Murton. Start over. This team is going nowhere, and I'm absolutely done with them. (For now. I'll be back next year, because I'm a chump.)

 

-Joel

 

PS -- The Iowa Cubs have exactly one player hitting above .300, and his name is Trenidad Hubbard, and he's 107 years old. Ye gods.

[Soul]

I hear you, but with this organization's track record (or lack thereof) for producing position-player talent in the minors, we might wanna gut our minor league staffs and re-up with some real baseball teachers. Then keep our best players down for a couple years to learn how to play the game right. That might help avoid more Corey Patterson type failures.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I vote for Barrett sucks. He's the most impatient hitter in the league, his OBP is embarassing, and he is unbelievably streaky. I don't care how much you're slumping, a 400 OPS for a full-time player over ANY three week+ stretch is downright embarassing. When he slumps, he SLUMPS.

 

Barrett was a big big problem for us down the stretch last September if you recall, as well. Nope, don't like him much at all. Seems to have a big mouth too.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Oops, almost forgot: where's the vitriol in this thread for Rothschild, Clines, Matthews and Dick Pole (just what the hell does he do, anyway??) The Cubs' pathetic, inexcusable, incorrigible approach at the plate falls directly on the laps of these two dimwits Clines and Sarge. When Baker gets fired, how about giving Von Joshua a shot at it? Has anyone noticed how well our guys at AA are hitting? High OBPs, plate discipline, good stuff.

 

As for Rothschild, well, all I can say is wow. How he escapes the axe is beyond me. EVERY pitcher we have has regressed under Rothschild's presumed tutelage. Zamora was a horse's ass, OK, but he also got results and the pitchers respected him. Rothschild, you just get the feeling he's like a substitute teacher in grade school, all the pitchers ignore him and giggle behind his back.

 

I don't have any significant complaints about Chris Speier, though considering who he replaced, it would be hard to complain if a tree stump got the job.

 

I have no idea who the remaining coaches are, is Sammy's water carrier still on the payroll?

[Soul]

Who was the pitching coach we had in '98?

 

He did a fine job with not much talent---even coaxing a 50-save season out of Rod Beck when everyone on the planet had written him off.

 

Reagan? Phil Reagan? 10 times the pitching coach Rothschild is. We oughtta dig him up----he could out-coach Rothschild from 6 feet under. Anyone could.

[NCCubFan]

Zamora was a horse's ass, OK, but he also got results and the pitchers respected him.

I think you mean Acosta. Oscar Zamora was the Cubs' closer for a year or two back in the 70s.

[dalgreen]

I vote for Barrett sucks. He's the most impatient hitter in the league, his OBP is embarassing, and he is unbelievably streaky. I don't care how much you're slumping, a 400 OPS for a full-time player over ANY three week+ stretch is downright embarassing. When he slumps, he SLUMPS.

 

Barrett was a big big problem for us down the stretch last September if you recall, as well. Nope, don't like him much at all. Seems to have a big mouth too.

 

I don't why this guy seems to fly under the criticism radar screen. Maybe it's because he tried to pick a fight with Oswalt last year. A lot of good that did. I can't believe how many people actually think he should hit second in the lineup. Outside of a select few, everyone in the organization deserves blame, but most of it goes to the players. Why only Perez, Patterson, Macias, Remmy, Maddux, Macias get the brunt of it, I don't know why. The bonehead decisions I see on the field isn't because the coaches/manager is clueless, I think we have several guys on the team who have played baseball almost their whole lives, but really don't have baseball smarts.

[CubfaninCA]

Baker's ruining a once very promising group. He let the starters go too long, which lead to injury. He doesn't develop any of the young players and he can't decide on a lineup or put the best on-base guys at the top of the order.

 

If Baker is fired, this organization will win alot more games. Keep Baker around and the Trib will need to shell out $200 million for a winner.