Should the Cubs Call Up Catcher Owen Ayers in September?

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, Jason Ross said:

Lastly, I do think you're underselling him still. The context for that is that you said it would be "just to get a rookie's feet wet". That supposes there's some other player (rookie or non-rookie) who would help the club. Who would that be? I don't think Owen Ayers would be here just to get his feet wet. I think it's a great byproduct. But I also think as a third catcher and 1b he offers the Cubs a legitimate roster fit over other spurious options, the ones I listed. None of the other options stand out over Ayers. They may go that route yet, and I think you can make perfectly fine arguments for why Kevin Alcantara, or Justin Dean could add value...but it's likely nothing worthwhile over what Ayers could, either. I'd be shocked if anyone in this spot came up and saw more than 20 PAs.

As i said, Ayers could be added to the team, including for reasons you've said, depending on what Counsell thinks the team could most use.  Same with a lot of the guys in Iowa you mentioned.

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, Bertz said:

Also I'm like pretty confident you can't just have a guy not on the roster hanging out in the dugout eating peanuts having a good time.  Like why would you think that's a thing?

They have players not on the roster on the taxi-squad all the time.  You also see minor leaguers not on the 26-man in the dugout after the minor league season ends.  I'm not saying they'd bring up a player on Sept 1 and leave him not rostered for a month.

[Bertz]

40 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Is that true though? Like is there a specific rule that someone like Ben Brown can be in the bullpen (saw him walking out, presumably while rehabbing, a couple weeks ago), but an undressed prospect can't? Don't they always bring out the first round draft picks for signing and batting practice and stuff?

They're definitely not allowed around during games

Quote

MLB rule 3.17[1] specifies that "no one except players, substitutes, managers, coaches, athletic trainers and batboys shall occupy a bench during a game." The rule also stipulates that players on the injured list are allowed in the dugout, but may not enter the field of play at any time during the game. 

I don't know the exact contours pre-game but I assume there's a difference between a one-off for a fresh draft pick and functioning as a de-facto 29th man.

[Stratos]

6 hours ago, Outshined_One said:

You bring up a valid point regarding the backup 1B argument.  Jonathan Long got shipped over to FL at the deadline, and there really aren't any viable 1B options at AAA aside from BJ Murray, whom I get the sense ends up being a R5 casualty in the offseason.

Maybe they reward Ayers with a callup and minimal catching duty, but use him to rest Busch down the stretch?

They definitely need to rest Busch.  It's possible Ayers gets a start there vs LHP.  Shaw might also do that, but isn't ideal given his limited wingspan.

[squally1313]

28 minutes ago, Bertz said:

They're definitely not allowed around during games

I don't know the exact contours pre-game but I assume there's a difference between a one-off for a fresh draft pick and functioning as a de-facto 29th man.

Well no one was saying he’d be serving as some disallowed active player. There’s plenty of uniformed people in the dugout (and probably more in the clubhouse) who aren’t allowed to play, that’s why you have to submit an active roster every game. 
 

that and I distinctly remember non-active roster players in the dugout (szcur, the guy with the googles) during the World Series. 
 

it’s more idle curiosity on if there’s an explicit rule or not. Don’t think there’s a limit on number of coaches? Is there on, say, bullpen catchers? 

[Bertz]

20 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Well no one was saying he’d be serving as some disallowed active player. There’s plenty of uniformed people in the dugout (and probably more in the clubhouse) who aren’t allowed to play, that’s why you have to submit an active roster every game. 
 

that and I distinctly remember non-active roster players in the dugout (szcur, the guy with the googles) during the World Series. 
 

it’s more idle curiosity on if there’s an explicit rule or not. Don’t think there’s a limit on number of coaches? Is there on, say, bullpen catchers? 

Szczur was on the 40 man.  Teams generally have injury replacements ready to go in the playoffs.  But in the regular season they're in the minors.  There's a reason Sam Bernero breaks 90% of the Cubs' roster moves by simply noticing a new guy arriving at the field. 

There was a designated taxi squad immediately post COVID (I remember Brendan Little pitching a game in Toronto while not on the 40 man for instance), and there is similarly for international trips (Japan last March) and the postseason. 

But teams generally don't just have a cadre of dudes just hanging out during the regular season at this point.  And while I wouldn't be surprised if some level of taxi squad is still permissible, there's definitely not guys not on the 40 at the park.  The Players Association would (rightfully) have a conniption if the Cubs went "oh this is just our new bullpen catcher 😉" to get around putting a guy on the 40 man.

[squally1313]

12 minutes ago, Bertz said:

The Players Association would (rightfully) have a conniption if the Cubs went "oh this is just our new bullpen catcher 😉" to get around putting a guy on the 40 man.

I’m sure you’re right on at least the generals of the rules, if not the specifics. But you keep implying that we’d be trying to do something nefarious here, and I think the general idea was more ‘hey man, you had a good year, maybe come pick Carson’s brain and sit in on planning sessions for a few days’ which I don’t see anyone having a real problem with. Like, there’s no one being harmed in this scenario. 

[jersey cubs fan]

What’s with all the September callups talk, that’s still two months away 

[Bertz]

46 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

I’m sure you’re right on at least the generals of the rules, if not the specifics. But you keep implying that we’d be trying to do something nefarious here, and I think the general idea was more ‘hey man, you had a good year, maybe come pick Carson’s brain and sit in on planning sessions for a few days’ which I don’t see anyone having a real problem with. Like, there’s no one being harmed in this scenario. 

I mean off the top is he being paid in this scenario?  If it's after the minor league season and he's not on the 40 almost surely not?  And he might be okay with that but it does feel like something the union absolutely should nip in the bud.

I would guess "Hey Owen you're officially our Minor League Player of the Year TM come spend an afternoon at Wrigley" is probably totally okay.  Genius' idea of making him like some shadow September call-up catching bullpens and attending meetings and hanging out in the dugout but explicitly avoiding a 40 man roster move is wildly inappropriate.  I don't know exactly where the line is (and without wasting my Tuesday night reading the official rulebook I won't find out), but it's surely much much much closer to the former than the latter.

[chibears55]

Maybe nothing but they signed catcher Austin Wynns to a minor league deal today.

Maybe nothing or maybe to add a catcher for Iowa to bring Ayers up..

As far as Ayers coming up or not, I think a call up might be mostly to give themselves protection with that 3rd catcher as they have been using Kelly/Amaya as a DH.

I dont think he'll get much playing time and would probably be more like an on the job learning experience in the dugout.