Biggio and Bagwell HOF chances

[astrosfan34]

I'm an Astros fan, and this is my first post. I just wanted to see what your thoughts are on Bagwell and/or Biggio making the hall of fame.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Welcome!

 

It's tough for me to evaluate their careers, I think both kinda fall into the gray area for HOF hopefuls. If I had to guess, I'd say both probably get in, but I'll say Biggio doesn't deserve to get in, IMO. That's only after a brief look at their career numbers, so take it FWIW.

[astrosfan34]

As for my opinion, I think they'll both make it, but It will be borderline. I really do hope they get in though. Of course, an Astros WS title would help both of their causes, but with that almost certainly not happening this year and the outlook not so bright for next year, I doubt either one of them will get the pennant.

 

Thanks for the welcome :D

[Roast]

Welcome!

 

I pretty much agree with Cpatt. I dont think Biggio should be in. If santo's not it, Biggio sure shouldnt be. Bagwell will proabably make it, but he is still questionable, IMO.

[astrosfan34]

Now that you mention it, it really is a shame that Santo isn't in. I really think he deserves it.

[ManEatingTarp]

I'm an Astros fan, and this is my first post. I just wanted to see what your thoughts are on Bagwell and/or Biggio making the hall of fame.

 

Yes and Yes.

Not 1st ballet, but in.

[goonys evil twin]

Bagwell, Frank Thomas, McGriff, Galarraga and Palmeiro will all be competing for spots around the same time. I see some guys taking votes away from others. If the Big Hurt comes back strong and manages to win a World Series, he might have a leg up over all the others.

 

 

 

Biggio, first reaction says know, but I think he'll probably make it eventually. His trouble is he'll probably be up for election around the time Kent goes up.

 

And for all these guys, it remains to be seen what kind of backlash the steroid era will create for their status.

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

Bagwell, Frank Thomas, McGriff, Galarraga and Palmeiro will all be competing for spots around the same time. I see some guys taking votes away from others. If the Big Hurt comes back strong and manages to win a World Series, he might have a leg up over all the others.

 

 

 

Biggio, first reaction says know, but I think he'll probably make it eventually. His trouble is he'll probably be up for election around the time Kent goes up.

 

And for all these guys, it remains to be seen what kind of backlash the steroid era will create for their status.

 

Frank over Raffy? Frank has played a total of 132 games in the field in the last 6+ seasons.

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=4527&context=batting

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=3897&context=batting

[goonys evil twin]

Bagwell, Frank Thomas, McGriff, Galarraga and Palmeiro will all be competing for spots around the same time. I see some guys taking votes away from others. If the Big Hurt comes back strong and manages to win a World Series, he might have a leg up over all the others.

 

 

 

Biggio, first reaction says know, but I think he'll probably make it eventually. His trouble is he'll probably be up for election around the time Kent goes up.

 

And for all these guys, it remains to be seen what kind of backlash the steroid era will create for their status.

 

Frank over Raffy? Frank has played a total of 132 games in the field in the last 6+ seasons.

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=4527&context=batting

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=3897&context=batting

 

I don't like HOF debates, or All Star debates. I really don't care about them. I was just making an observation about the plethora of pretty productive 1b/DH types who will be eligible all around the same time. Frank has 2 MVP awards, and Raffy has none. That is a big topic with many voters, at least according to their articles about who they think belong. I think that if he wins a world series in the next couple years, and has another big season, he'll be at or near the top of that list. But obviously that can change.

[Holy Cow]

When Biggio gets near the ballet, sports writers are going to start fawning over him, talking up his "versatility" (all-star + good glove and multiple posistions). Also he is a "gamer," because he is scrappy and leans into pitches. He could end up being first ballot.

 

Bagwell is the exact opposite for me. I really like him, both as a player and a person, but forsee trouble for him. He will probably get in eventually too, though.

[NCCubFan]

I think both will get in eventually; lesser players have (Bill Mazeroski is Exhibit 1). I don't think either will on the first ballot.

[Chief_Cardinal]

To me, they are both first ballot hall of famers.

[dime]

both of these guys were complete players...hit for power, could run (bagwell was fast for a 1B) and were outstanding defensive players.

 

I think they both have to get in, not sure what their stat lines will look like but they affected the game in every possible way.

[GaryWoods]

both of these guys were complete players...hit for power, could run (bagwell was fast for a 1B) and were outstanding defensive players.

 

I think they both have to get in, not sure what their stat lines will look like but they affected the game in every possible way.

 

Problem for them is that they played in a very offensive era with lots of other guys who are just as good or better. It's possible that several of these players could split the vote and make it tough for any of them to get in.

[wolf stansson]

They are shoo-ins if they get all the way to the veterans committee. There aren't two more respected guys who are more well liked.

[SouthSideRyan]

They both deserve it, no doubt. But, the BBWAA is pretty dumb sometimes.

[sonofsamiam]

They both deserve it, but I can see Bagwell getting voted in in the 4th round or something, and Biggio languishing in Vet Committee voting and maybe not getting in. Which would be a shame.

 

Oh, and Thomas and Bagwell should get voted in together.

[wondernorm]

Welcome!

 

I pretty much agree with Cpatt. I dont think Biggio should be in. If santo's not it, Biggio sure shouldnt be. Bagwell will proabably make it, but he is still questionable, IMO.

 

I don't think you can say Biggio shouldn't be in because Santo isn't in.

 

Because they play(ed) different positions it is releative. 3B is traditionally an offensive position, while 2B is not. And without taking that into account, Santo isn't clearly superior offensively.

 

Santo has a higher SLG%, more HR, more RBI.

Biggio has a higher BA and OBP, more hits, and more SB.

 

Santo had 5 GG while Biggio has 4.

 

Biggio also has a pretty good shot at getting to 3000 hits.

 

Overall, Santo and Biggio are comparable offensively and defensively, but because Biggio plays a traditionally defensive position, I think he has the edge for the HOF.

 

Also, look at the similar batters on baseball-reference and see who is in better company.

[ZZ Thorn]

I say no - both played in an era with hyperproduction offensively. I don't think either are quite good enough, but they probably will, cuz the voters are dumbasses. If they get in Tony Perez, Andre Dawson and host of others should get in.

[treebird]

I say no - both played in an era with hyperproduction offensively. I don't think either are quite good enough, but they probably will, cuz the voters are dumbasses. If they get in Tony Perez, Andre Dawson and host of others should get in.

 

Both these guys blow Dawson away, come on.

 

They should both get in easily. If they don't the Hall will of screwed up again, but who really cares at this point?

[GaryWoods]

If they get in Tony Perez, Andre Dawson and host of others should get in.

 

Is there another Tony Perez besides the one who was inducted in 2000? :twisted:

[ZZ Thorn]

I say no - both played in an era with hyperproduction offensively. I don't think either are quite good enough, but they probably will, cuz the voters are dumbasses. If they get in Tony Perez, Andre Dawson and host of others should get in.

 

Both these guys blow Dawson away, come on.

 

They should both get in easily. If they don't the Hall will of screwed up again, but who really cares at this point?

 

They blow Dawson away in stats, but not as impact players. But the reason they 'blow' Dawson away in stats is cuz, as I said, they played in a time in offensive inflation. If Dawson played in the '90s like Bagwell did he'd have 500 homers easy.

 

There's no way Biggio or Bagwell "blow" Dawson away - that's ludicrous, and can only be said by someone who never saw Dawson play for an extended period of time. I think a person who would say that truly shows their age.

 

But so many writers who vote just look at the stats unfortunately - they clearly do not excel at critical thinking. You'd think considering that Dawson was the first guy in decades to hit 49 home runs in the NL, and then there's, what, 15+ instances of players topping 50 home runs in the last 10+ years would make people scratch their heads about the possibility that hitting is easier today than it was 20 years ago.

 

Tony got in?! Players Assoc. huh? Good for Tony! Tony=baller.

[dalgreen]

If there has to be a big discussion about it, then a player shouldn't get in. I still say the HOF should be only for the greatest of the greats in the game and not for the very good or very, very good. But the way the HOF is now, I would think Biggio would have an easier time getting in than Bagwell.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think both players will get in eventually. I doubt either are first ballot guys.

 

If Biggio holds on long enough to get 3000 hits, he'll be a lock. A few years ago, I would have said that Bagwell was the lock and Biggio was a bubble candidate. Biggio, however, has aged a little better than Bagwell and looks to have a greater chance.

 

In no way do I mean this as an accusation, but I think Bagwell could be hurt by possible steroid allegations. He played during that era and the breakdown with his body coinsides with the beginning of testing.

[SouthSideRyan]

I say no - both played in an era with hyperproduction offensively. I don't think either are quite good enough, but they probably will, cuz the voters are dumbasses. If they get in Tony Perez, Andre Dawson and host of others should get in.

 

Both these guys blow Dawson away, come on.

 

They should both get in easily. If they don't the Hall will of screwed up again, but who really cares at this point?

 

They blow Dawson away in stats, but not as impact players. But the reason they 'blow' Dawson away in stats is cuz, as I said, they played in a time in offensive inflation. If Dawson played in the '90s like Bagwell did he'd have 500 homers easy.

 

There's no way Biggio or Bagwell "blow" Dawson away - that's ludicrous, and can only be said by someone who never saw Dawson play for an extended period of time. I think a person who would say that truly shows their age.

 

But so many writers who vote just look at the stats unfortunately - they clearly do not excel at critical thinking. You'd think considering that Dawson was the first guy in decades to hit 49 home runs in the NL, and then there's, what, 15+ instances of players topping 50 home runs in the last 10+ years would make people scratch their heads about the possibility that hitting is easier today than it was 20 years ago.

 

Tony got in?! Players Assoc. huh? Good for Tony! Tony=baller.

 

Dawson also played in a great hitters park with Wrigley in the late 80s/early 90s, while Biggio/Bagwell played in an awful hitters park for half their careers at the Astrodome.