Corey Patterson?

[The_Realist]

CP is contracted until the end of this year. With Scott Boras being his agent, hes gonna want BIG money. I doubt Hendry will want to pay him the money, because its gonna be crazy high. Do you think Hendry will pay him or trade him?

[Geech]

CP is still under team control and eligible for arbitration at the end of the year. He'll stay with the team for now.

[NorthsideAvenger]

CP is still under team control and eligible for arbitration at the end of the year. He'll stay with the team for now.

 

I think you'll see Hendry aggressive shop Patterson around this offseason. If not before the trading deadline.

[Geech]

That's preposterous. We have no better alternatives; Pie isn't ready.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

CP is still under team control and eligible for arbitration at the end of the year. He'll stay with the team for now.

 

Yup, you're right on CP's contract status. In fact, Corey is under Cubs control till the end of 2007.

 

And I agree with your other post too.

[CubinNY]

Coery haters help me out here:

 

What exactly do you expect from him?

 

Aside from Beltran (who is hurt) and Edmonds (who is like a hundered) what national league CFer is better.

 

Who would you rather have out their and why?

 

What is the source for your unfounded hatred of him?

Edited June 4, 2005 by CubinNY

[louisvillecub]

Coery haters help me out here:

 

What exactly do you expect from him?

 

Aside from Beltran (who is hurt) and Edmonds (who is like a hundered) what national league CFer is better.

 

Who would you rather have out their and why?

 

What is source for your unfounded hatred of him?

 

He's stubborn...

 

He doesn't try...

 

He doesn't care...

 

He kills baby seals on his off days....

 

I think that takes care of it! :wink:

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Coery haters help me out here:

 

What exactly do you expect from him?

 

Aside from Beltran (who is hurt) and Edmonds (who is like a hundered) what national league CFer is better.

 

Who would you rather have out their and why?

 

What is source for your unfounded hatred of him?

 

Sorry, I hate any everyday player that cannot do better than a 300 OBP; puts up a 5/1 KK/BB ratio; is completely incapable of making contact, much less getting an actual hit, with men on base; is extremely overrated defensively; and is paid millions of dollars. Next!!!

[Old Style Man]

First, there isn't a hatred for Patterson as you claim, except for perhaps by a few extreme nut cases, but there is a lot of frustration and the view that Patterson just doesn't get it, and he won't ever get it. He is now 25. Still young, but he has a lot of major league at bats right now. You asked who I'd rather have playing center right now for the sake of this year's team? Okay. Here is a list in no particular order:

 

Brady Clark

Milton Bradley

Johnny Damon

Carlos Beltran

Mark Kotsay

Aaron Rowand

Dave Roberts

Jim Edmonds

Juan Pierre

Andruw Jones

Tori Hunter

Vernon Wells

Brad Wilkerson

Craig Monroe

 

I'm not saying I'd deal Corey straight up for all of these guys, but I certainly would for most. Maybe not Roberts because of his age, or Wilkerson because of his injuries, or perhaps Monroe because of his inexperience playing center, but the rest are much, much better players at this point.

[CubinNY]

Aaron Rowand

 

?

 

as for the rest, I think a case can be made that overall Patterson is better than any of them right now (excluding Beltran and Edmonds). And he has not even entered his prime yet.

 

Corey has had to learn how to play at the major league level. He was rushed to the bigs after one season of A and one season of AA ball. So what you are seeing is his growth process. Hold it against him if you will.

 

Maybe some people have unrealistic expecatations of Patterson? I don't know. But it is getting to be patheticly ridiculous.

[hawkeyecub]

Then why don't you guys concern yourself with who we could deal Burnitz for and who you'd rather have in RF? Corey is putting up very similar numbers even though he plays CF, makes half as much and is much younger. Not to mention that Corey has done much more than what we've gotten in RF.

Corey has hit .272/.306/..447 for a .752 OPS.

Burnitz has hit .262/.311/.451 for a .763 OPS.

Our LF have combined to hit .239/.299/.391 for a .690 OPS.

 

Yet Corey is the joke and we we want to get rid of him as soon as possible? Hmmm, I think I would rather get some decent production from our corner outfielders than run off a 25 year old CF who's producing just as well.

[YearofDaCubs]

There are only two problems with Corey. He Ks a lot and doesnt walk at all. His AVG isnt that bad. If he can take care of those things which can be corrected(hopefully) He would be ok.

[Old Style Man]

I have been very patient with Patterson, defending him to a lot of Cubs fans who became frustrated with him sooner than I. However, I see no growth, improvement, or process. He doesn't look as good defensively as he was last year, and his plate discipline is still non-existant. Here is a link to stats that show what major league center fielders with enough bats to qualify are doing:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=avg&minpa=0&split=0&season=2005&pos=cf&hand=a&league=mlb&ageMin=17&ageMax=51

 

Of 23 qualified center fielders, only Vernon Wells, Finley, and Grady Sizemore have a worse OBP, and only Kotsay, David Dejusus, Jeremy Reed, Willy Tavaras, Juan Pierre, Sizemore, Bernie Williams, Finley, and Wells have a worse OPS.

 

In addition, Patterson is in only in the middle of the pack in average and stolen bases. He's second to last in walks, (after Sizemore), and he is 19th in RBI. His defense, I'm sure, is in the top third or the top quarter, but he has been no where near gold glove caliber like last year in my opinion. And Rowand, since you asked, has less home runs than Corey (10 to 4) and the same number of stollen bases (7), but is superior in every other category. In addition, only Edmonds and Wilkerson have struck out more than Patterson, but their productiion has been far superior. So, after thinking about my original post, maybe I wouldn't prefer Vernon Wells, but I'll stick to my opinion that I'd rather have anyone else on the list for this year.

 

In Corey's defense, only Reed, Sizemore, Tavarez, and Dejusus are younger, and Wells is a year older, but his lack of improvements and adjustments are very troubling.

[Old Style Man]

Of course, I do agree with those who say that trading for a veteran left fielder with a good stick and adequate defense would go a long way towards solving the production problem in the outfield. I don't see Patterson going anywhere else this year, or probably even next, but a lot of us have very legitimate reasons for getting very tired of him. I'm not going to the park or booing him, but he really needs to start showing more patience and discipline. He has too many big league at bats not to.

[Mark_R]

Aaron Rowand

 

?

 

as for the rest, I think a case can be made that overall Patterson is better than any of them right now (excluding Beltran and Edmonds). And he has not even entered his prime yet.

 

Corey has had to learn how to play at the major league level. He was rushed to the bigs after one season of A and one season of AA ball. So what you are seeing is his growth process. Hold it against him if you will.

 

Maybe some people have unrealistic expecatations of Patterson? I don't know. But it is getting to be patheticly ridiculous.

 

What about Andruw Jones who was just thrusted into a major league role at the age of 18? And of the list that OSM provided, here's the three year OPS stats for those guys:

 

                            2003                    2004                   2005

Corey Patterson          .840                     .772                    .753
Brady Clark                .733                     .782                  .882              
Milton Bradley             .922                     .786                  .856                 
Johnny Damon             .750                     .857                   .849
Carlos Beltran             .911                     .915                  .820               
Mark Kotsay               .727                     .829                   .741
Aaron Rowand            .779                     .905                   .765
Dave Roberts             .676                      .716                  .800    
Jim Edmonds             1.022                     1.061                .961 
Juan Pierre                 .734                     .781                  .643
Andruw Jones             .851                     .833                  .822
Torii Hunter          .763                            .805                  .776                
Vernon Wells              .909                     .809                  .738
Brad Wilkerson           .844                     .872                  .812 
Craig Monroe             .736                     .825                  .807     

 

Of those guys, Rowand, Andruw Jones, Vernon Wells, Wilkerson, Bradley, they're all in their prime and the latter four have put up better OPS numbers than Patterson. It it is simply inaccurate when people say Corey's on the plateau right below Beltran and Edmonds. His OPS numbers certainly do not indicate that to be true. And if his pitch recognition doesn't increase sometime soon, it will likely stay this way throughout his career. Great SLG with a terrible OBP makes for an average OPS hitter.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

In addition, Patterson is in only in the middle of the pack in average and stolen bases. He's second to last in walks, (after Sizemore), and he is 19th in RBI. His defense, I'm sure, is in the top third or the top quarter, but he has been no where near gold glove caliber like last year in my opinion. And Rowand, since you asked, has less home runs than Corey (10 to 4) and the same number of stollen bases (7), but is superior in every other category. In addition, only Edmonds and Wilkerson have struck out more than Patterson, but their productiion has been far superior. So, after thinking about my original post, maybe I wouldn't prefer Vernon Wells, but I'll stick to my opinion that I'd rather have anyone else on the list for this year.

 

In Corey's defense, only Reed, Sizemore, Tavarez, and Dejusus are younger, and Wells is a year older, but his lack of improvements and adjustments are very troubling.

 

Yes, Corey's OBP is still low, but it has been inching up. It needs to get higher, especially the walks. He was hurt by a really poor April, he walked much more in May and he took a walk yesterday. Hopefully this trend of improvement continues.

 

RBIs? Team stat. I don't care. SBs? He'll have more than 30 if he's healthy all year. He's had some bad luck.

[Mark_R]

In addition, Patterson is in only in the middle of the pack in average and stolen bases. He's second to last in walks, (after Sizemore), and he is 19th in RBI. His defense, I'm sure, is in the top third or the top quarter, but he has been no where near gold glove caliber like last year in my opinion. And Rowand, since you asked, has less home runs than Corey (10 to 4) and the same number of stollen bases (7), but is superior in every other category. In addition, only Edmonds and Wilkerson have struck out more than Patterson, but their productiion has been far superior. So, after thinking about my original post, maybe I wouldn't prefer Vernon Wells, but I'll stick to my opinion that I'd rather have anyone else on the list for this year.

 

In Corey's defense, only Reed, Sizemore, Tavarez, and Dejusus are younger, and Wells is a year older, but his lack of improvements and adjustments are very troubling.

 

Yes, Corey's OBP is still low, but it has been inching up. It needs to get higher, especially the walks. He was hurt by a really poor April, he walked much more in May and he took a walk yesterday. Hopefully this trend of improvement continues.

 

RBIs? Team stat. I don't care. SBs? He'll have more than 30 if he's healthy all year. He's had some bad luck.

 

Inching is still not enough progress. That OBP has to be around .340 to be even considered acceptable to me. The hype that he gets here , should be willing to want to justify that kind of overall mediocre OBP. Problem is something that he may not be able to correct. People make way too many assumption that just because he's young, that he will improve his plate discipline. I want to SEE something that proves that to be a fact as he works his way through the year.

[Mizzou]

2001 - .221/.266/.336

2002 - .253/.284/.392

2003 - .298/.329/.511

2004 - .266/.320/.452

2005 - .272/.306/.447

 

Those are Corey's AVG, OBP, and SLG from every year that he's been in the big leagues. Come to your own conclusions, but what I gather from them are this: He's simply not improving. Across the board, his numbers are worse than they were two years ago. He's a great defensive centerfielder, he'll give you an ocassional bunt hit, he'll provide some pop (all 10 of his home runs are solo) but with men on base and in crucial situations, he flat out stinks. It's so bad that I actually expect him to strikeout every time he goes up there with runners in scoring position. And I'm not exaggerating - every single time he walks to the plate, I'm expecting him to wail away at a pitch in the dirt.

 

At this point, I think we're better off by trading him. I'd love to see him be a part of a deal that brings Kenny Lofton back to Chicago. When Lofton was here, we had a bonafide leadoff hitter. Neifi's doing pretty well so far, but that .261 road OBP isn't looking too good. Bottom line, Neifi isn't the solution. Give me Kenny Lofton this year, and give me Kenny Lofton next year. He's shown no signs at all of slowing down, so don't give me the age thing. And in case you're not aware of his numbers - he's at .367 with an OBP around .450 in 20 games.

[erik316wttn]

Coery haters help me out here:

 

What exactly do you expect from him?

 

Aside from Beltran (who is hurt) and Edmonds (who is like a hundered) what national league CFer is better.

 

Who would you rather have out their and why?

 

What is source for your unfounded hatred of him?

 

Sorry, I hate any everyday player that cannot do better than a 300 OBP; puts up a 5/1 KK/BB ratio; is completely incapable of making contact, much less getting an actual hit, with men on base; is extremely overrated defensively; and is paid millions of dollars. Next!!!

 

But DKWG, you're being too harsh on him! He's just a kid! He'll improve, give him time! He's a five tool player and will become a 10-time all-star!

[biittner77]

Take a look at these other CF for a moment:

 

Brady Clark ------unavailable

Milton Bradley ---Character issues

Johnny Damon --unavailable this season

Carlos Beltran --unavailable and likely overpaid

Mark Kotsay ----No thanks, the idea is to get somebody that's better

Aaron Rowand --unavailable, not significantly better if at all

Dave Roberts --Old and overachieving

Jim Edmonds --unavailable and despised

Juan Pierre ----and people say Patterson is overrated???

Andruw Jones--This guy used to be Corey Patterson, not worth his salary

Tori Hunter ----unavailable

Vernon Wells-- see Kotsay and Pierre

Craig Monroe -- never heard of him

 

The only guy on this list that might actually be available and is actually a significant improvement is Wilkerson. Is he available? If so I'd be interested.

 

Of course there are better CF in the league. I'd rather have ARod at SS than Perez but it makes no difference because he's not available.

 

People used to talk about 3rd base as a black hole for the Cubs. When was the last time the Cubs had an all star CF? That would be Dernier and he had only one good year.

 

Bottom line: Patterson is frustrating to watch, he's likely not as good as the hype but not as bad as many like to believe.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

Why is Damon unavailable this season?

 

The Sox might be willing to part with him at the deadline if the deal is right. He'll be entering free agency, and they're not likely to resign him if they have a better, younger option (Patterson).

[YearofDaCubs]

2001 - .221/.266/.336

2002 - .253/.284/.392

2003 - .298/.329/.511

2004 - .266/.320/.452

2005 - .272/.306/.447

 

Those are Corey's AVG, OBP, and SLG from every year that he's been in the big leagues. Come to your own conclusions, but what I gather from them are this: He's simply not improving. Across the board, his numbers are worse than they were two years ago. He's a great defensive centerfielder, he'll give you an ocassional bunt hit, he'll provide some pop (all 10 of his home runs are solo) but with men on base and in crucial situations, he flat out stinks. It's so bad that I actually expect him to strikeout every time he goes up there with runners in scoring position. And I'm not exaggerating - every single time he walks to the plate, I'm expecting him to wail away at a pitch in the dirt.

 

At this point, I think we're better off by trading him. I'd love to see him be a part of a deal that brings Kenny Lofton back to Chicago. When Lofton was here, we had a bonafide leadoff hitter. Neifi's doing pretty well so far, but that .261 road OBP isn't looking too good. Bottom line, Neifi isn't the solution. Give me Kenny Lofton this year, and give me Kenny Lofton next year. He's shown no signs at all of slowing down, so don't give me the age thing. And in case you're not aware of his numbers - he's at .367 with an OBP around .450 in 20 games.

No way would I trade Corey for an old Lofton.

[CubinNY]

Putting up Corey's 03 numbers is a joke right?

[imb]

I dont want to ignore users, I just want to ignore thread titles.

[The_Realist]

This team needs a sparkplug at the top of the order. Perez is doing a fine job, but I don't expect him to be able to do it all year.

 

Somebody to consistently get on base for the bangers. Dog Juan Pierre all you want, but he does exactly that.