Marlins (Quantrill) vs Cubs (Rea): 5/12/25, 6:40pm

[WhyCantWeWin]

Who gets booted from the 40 man? Dont think its Brujan, Nicky or Turner just yet. A reliever?

[Stratos]

3 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I know. But the pen is not good right now. And he used Brown for over 100 the last time he went out, so it isn’t like he won’t let someone go over 100 pitches. Has he gotten that guy out no one would have said a word. Or has Palencia came in and gave up the homer people would have been critical that he took Rea out. It is easy to criticize a decision when something goes wrong. 

Yeah I think Counsell is likely letting SP go an extra inning here and there, given our shaky pen.  If so I get it but that's a dangerous game to play.  Unless it's a do-or-die game or the playoffs I don't really agree with riding pitchers, i'd rather a SP healthy than rolling the dice on health and trying to squeeze more innings.

Under Hoyer it always seems to be because the pen is lacking.  Like when Ross rode Alzolay/Merryweather/Leiter in 2023 because everyone else was meh.  It points to a consistent organization failure to acquire or develop enough pen talent.

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, squally1313 said:

Moises coming up tomorrow. Happ with an IL stint. 

Wonder how Kelly's fingers are on the throwing hand (power-hitting hand) after getting hit there a few games ago (Friday was it?).  They looked swollen later that game.  Ball-on-bone is the worst.

And what do you do with Turner at this point?  If he sucks you can't play him, and he won't get any better rotting on the bench.  He was supposed to be the guy to DH if there was an injury to any of Happ/Seiya/Turner.  Does he want to transition to assistant hitting coach?  LOL.

Edited May 13, 2025 by Stratos

[Rcal10]

7 hours ago, Stratos said:

Yeah I think Counsell is likely letting SP go an extra inning here and there, given our shaky pen.  If so I get it but that's a dangerous game to play.  Unless it's a do-or-die game or the playoffs I don't really agree with riding pitchers, i'd rather a SP healthy than rolling the dice on health and trying to squeeze more innings.

Under Hoyer it always seems to be because the pen is lacking.  Like when Ross rode Alzolay/Merryweather/Leiter in 2023 because everyone else was meh.  It points to a consistent organization failure to acquire or develop enough pen talent.

 

I don’t think letting a Rea go to 100-105 pitches last night was a dangerous decision for his future health. Cubs have an off day this week so Rea will get 5 days off before his next start. In that one maybe Counsell limits him to 90 pitches or so. I think that had 2 guys got on jn that inning he would have pulled Rea. The DP allowed him to face one more batter. A guy hitting .170. I understand the reasoning for taking him out before that homer. But I think it is one of many decisions a manager makes that when it doesn’t work out well someone will surely mention how the manager made a mistake. Had he gotten then.170 hitter out no one would have said a word. And had Palencia came in and gave up the homer fans would have been critical if Counsell for bringing him in instead of just letting Rea finish the inning. 

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I don’t think letting a Rea go to 100-105 pitches last night was a dangerous decision for his future health. Cubs have an off day this week so Rea will get 5 days off before his next start. In that one maybe Counsell limits him to 90 pitches or so. I think that had 2 guys got on jn that inning he would have pulled Rea. The DP allowed him to face one more batter. A guy hitting .170. I understand the reasoning for taking him out before that homer. But I think it is one of many decisions a manager makes that when it doesn’t work out well someone will surely mention how the manager made a mistake. Had he gotten then.170 hitter out no one would have said a word. And had Palencia came in and gave up the homer fans would have been critical if Counsell for bringing him in instead of just letting Rea finish the inning. 

An extra inning here and there isn't a big deal but if this is something Counsell will be doing regularly and with most or all of our SP i can see it being a concern.  Hopefully it's just a thing they do in May until the pen is more settled.

[chibears55]

12 hours ago, itisallpartoftheplan said:

Feel bad for Caissie.. going to take multiple OF injuries before he gets a shot.

Excited for Ballesteros!

I have a feeling Caissie and Alcantara may get their shots next season when a new POBO and GM comes in and resets the roster if TR is really looking to save more money.

[squally1313]

Caissie is striking out 35% of the time while hitting .220 and Alcantara has been a below average AAA hitter this year (along with his own +30% K rate). It's fine, they're both 22 and we can afford to give them the time to figure it out. But Ballesteros is definitely the right choice at the moment.

I think one way or another one of them gets a starting shot next year. If we're going to commit to PCA and Tucker, there's going to be a bit of a luxury tax crunch in 2026 (in addition to PTR doing PTR things), and Suzuki and Happ are both going to be attractive trade options with 1 year and $20ish m left on their deals. If this all falls apart and we end up in some sort of weird rebuilding phase, then Happ and Suzuki are both better off traded for prospects. 

[Bertz]

3 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Caissie is striking out 35% of the time while hitting .220 and Alcantara has been a below average AAA hitter this year (along with his own +30% K rate). It's fine, they're both 22 and we can afford to give them the time to figure it out. But Ballesteros is definitely the right choice at the moment.

I think one way or another one of them gets a starting shot next year. If we're going to commit to PCA and Tucker, there's going to be a bit of a luxury tax crunch in 2026 (in addition to PTR doing PTR things), and Suzuki and Happ are both going to be attractive trade options with 1 year and $20ish m left on their deals. If this all falls apart and we end up in some sort of weird rebuilding phase, then Happ and Suzuki are both better off traded for prospects. 

I'm here too.  I don't think Tucker and Seiya are both on next year's team.  

[CubUgly]

12 hours ago, Stratos said:

Wonder how Kelly's fingers are on the throwing hand (power-hitting hand) after getting hit there a few games ago (Friday was it?).  They looked swollen later that game.  Ball-on-bone is the worst.

And what do you do with Turner at this point?  If he sucks you can't play him, and he won't get any better rotting on the bench.  He was supposed to be the guy to DH if there was an injury to any of Happ/Seiya/Turner.  Does he want to transition to assistant hitting coach?  LOL.

On Turner, heard a good point at the beginning of the year - if he's hitting like he did last year, that would be fine, but if he looks like he's 40 don't keep him around until June and July like with Hosmer and Mancini.

Well, he looks like he's 40.  Don't use the salary as an excuse. 

[Rcal10]

23 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I'm here too.  I don't think Tucker and Seiya are both on next year's team.  

If the Cubs do extend Tucker I can see either Seiya or Happ traded for a prospect. Being  up Ballesteros to DH and either Happ or Seiya plays left. If they extend Tucker it give them more leeway in trading outfield prospects. Maybe they can get a good starting pitcher at the deadline if Alcantara and Cassie are both in the table. 

[Rcal10]

15 minutes ago, CubUgly said:

On Turner, heard a good point at the beginning of the year - if he's hitting like he did last year, that would be fine, but if he looks like he's 40 don't keep him around until June and July like with Hosmer and Mancini.

Well, he looks like he's 40.  Don't use the salary as an excuse. 

The problem is Turner looked awful last year in May as well. And he turned it around to have a solid season. He is also always hit late in his career.’so not that easy to just cut ties, IMO. On top of that he has been a great influence on PCA and other guys on the team. It will be hard for him to turn it around here with such limited AB. So I get that. I just don’t think it is as cut and dry that he sucks and will never hit this year. If they do decide that, I am fine wjth a dfa, I am just not sure they should decide that this soon. 

[squally1313]

If the Cubs thought Ballesteros was a true .350+ OBP guy in the majors today, they'd probably have figured out a way to get him into the lineup before now. So let's say he's a .330 OBP guy. Over a weeks worth of PAs (the expected remaining length of Happ's IL stint), the difference between that and Turner's .270 adds up. Post that, you go back to 5-10 PAs a week, and, even assuming no dead cat bounce from Turner (.205 BABIP, underperforming his xwOBA by 60 points), the difference between a .270 OBP guy and a .330 OBP guy just isn't that substantial and if offset by taking 30 PAs a week away from a developing prospect. 

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, CubUgly said:

On Turner, heard a good point at the beginning of the year - if he's hitting like he did last year, that would be fine, but if he looks like he's 40 don't keep him around until June and July like with Hosmer and Mancini.

Well, he looks like he's 40.  Don't use the salary as an excuse. 

Thing is those guys got more playing time.  He's been horrible but we're also still in small sample territory.

IMO if the Cubs are going to really give Turner a shot now is the time with Happ out where he can play every day.  Problem is what kind of leash do you give him?  At what point do we know he's just cooked rather than off to a bad start?

[CubUgly]

3 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

The problem is Turner looked awful last year in May as well. And he turned it around to have a solid season. He is also always hit late in his career.’so not that easy to just cut ties, IMO. On top of that he has been a great influence on PCA and other guys on the team. It will be hard for him to turn it around here with such limited AB. So I get that. I just don’t think it is as cut and dry that he sucks and will never hit this year. If they do decide that, I am fine wjth a dfa, I am just not sure they should decide that this soon. 

I get it -  but he ain't ever getting regular AB's nor really should he - if he is we're having some concerning injury problems.   I do agree he is likely a good locker room influence, but I don't think you take up a roster spot just for that.   

[Backtobanks]

4 hours ago, squally1313 said:

Caissie is striking out 35% of the time while hitting .220 and Alcantara has been a below average AAA hitter this year (along with his own +30% K rate). It's fine, they're both 22 and we can afford to give them the time to figure it out. But Ballesteros is definitely the right choice at the moment.

I think one way or another one of them gets a starting shot next year. If we're going to commit to PCA and Tucker, there's going to be a bit of a luxury tax crunch in 2026 (in addition to PTR doing PTR things), and Suzuki and Happ are both going to be attractive trade options with 1 year and $20ish m left on their deals. If this all falls apart and we end up in some sort of weird rebuilding phase, then Happ and Suzuki are both better off traded for prospects. 

Now is the time to trade Cassie or Alcantara, while they have trade value.  Getting a ML arm now instead of waiting until they lose their trade value.

[We Got The Whole 9]

16 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

Now is the time to trade Cassie or Alcantara, while they have trade value.  Getting a ML arm now instead of waiting until they lose their trade value.

How much do you really think they have today? Alcantara can't hit anything but fastballs and rarely shows the ability to elevate them when he gets em. Caissie is a platoon hitter striking out an ungodly % of time and not finding enough power to offset it. 

 

One has already fallen off top lists and the other is hanging by a thread. 

 

They should have traded Alcantara last year or this winter. Now they might as well stick with him. Every org that has scouted him knows he can't hit breaking balls.

 

They're both just not that good.

[Backtobanks]

13 hours ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

How much do you really think they have today? Alcantara can't hit anything but fastballs and rarely shows the ability to elevate them when he gets em. Caissie is a platoon hitter striking out an ungodly % of time and not finding enough power to offset it. 

 

One has already fallen off top lists and the other is hanging by a thread. 

 

They should have traded Alcantara last year or this winter. Now they might as well stick with him. Every org that has scouted him knows he can't hit breaking balls.

 

They're both just not that good.

Baseball Trade Values has Cassie at 12.2 and Alcantara at 12.8.  They have some value in a package deal.  BBTV has Valdez at 12.8 and Sandy Alcantara at 22 as examples of what might be available for the right package.