Cubs (Hendricks) vs Diamondbacks (Henry): 4/16/24, 8:40pm, Marquee

[chibears55]

54 minutes ago, mul21 said:

This is what needs to be the focus.  This pen has pitched waaaaaaay too many innings this early in the season.  Avg. innings per start from the 5 guys who are currently starting: 4.25, 5.56, 5.03 (Shota obviously got hosed in the rain delay game), 4.07, 5.33.  That's not going to work long term regardless of the quality of pen arms.

Losing Steele hurts alot, Hendricks can't get you 5, then you basically have 3 rookies that under pitch counts.  So I bet if we look at the box scores from every game,  they probably had to use at least 2-3 relievers in every game so far, and I'm gonna guess at least 4 in half of them.

[chibears55]

43 minutes ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

Who is left for them to call up to help the tired bullpen? Wesneski? That’s it unless you cut someone. 

Put Hendricks on IL

[squally1313]

1 minute ago, chibears55 said:

Losing Steele hurts alot, Hendricks can't get you 5, then you basically have 3 rookies that under pitch counts.  So I bet if we look at the box scores from every game,  they probably had to use at least 2-3 relievers in every game so far, and I'm gonna guess at least 4 in half of them.

64 bullpen appearances in 17 games puts you at just under 4 per game on a macro level. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I kinda wonder if they just eat the innings today with whoever is planned to go down for Taillon, presumably Palencia or Thompson.  I doubt they'd make a 40 man move for this very short term crisis, which makes the only practical option probably Wesneski, who you might not want to disrupt just to eat a couple innings on getaway day. It might be difficult to physically get someone to Phoenix in time too.

[Rex Buckingham]

1 hour ago, Derwood said:

He has three blown saves already, tied for the league lead. His save % is 50%

he has given up 3 runs. Yes, they've all been HRs and that sucks, but come on man. 
 

He gave up 5 HRs in 64 major league innings (58 games) last year. Let's give the dude some credit instead of playing small sample size games

[KCCub]

6 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

I kinda wonder if they just eat the innings today with whoever is planned to go down for Taillon, presumably Palencia or Thompson.  I doubt they'd make a 40 man move for this very short term crisis, which makes the only practical option probably Wesneski, who you might not want to disrupt just to eat a couple innings on getaway day. It might be difficult to physically get someone to Phoenix in time too.

I think Thompson throws quite a bit today.

[chibears55]

Taillon is scheduled to be activated and start tomorrow,  I truly hope the plan is to IL Hendricks and give him a month to work with Hottovy and see if they can get some movement back in that 87 mph fastball again, if not, then it time to say thank you old friend but we need to move on.

[KCCub]

4 minutes ago, Rex Buckingham said:

he has given up 3 runs. Yes, they've all been HRs and that sucks, but come on man. 
 

He gave up 5 HRs in 64 major league innings (58 games) last year. Let's give the dude some credit instead of playing small sample size games

And it's that damn two strike middle cut hanging slider that he keeps throwing. He has the opposite issue as our other RP - throws too many strikes. That pitch needs to be in the dirt or outside the zone. 

[CubinNY]

8 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Taillon is scheduled to be activated and start tomorrow,  

Open pool of starter fluid, just add match or Jesus on a stick? Stay tuned Cubs fans. 

[chibears55]

54 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Open pool of starter fluid, just add match or Jesus on a stick? Stay tuned Cubs fans. 

He's been good on the even years so let hope that trend continues 🤷‍♂️

[LBiittner]

53 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Taillon is scheduled to be activated and start tomorrow,  I truly hope the plan is to IL Hendricks and give him a month to work with Hottovy and see if they can get some movement back in that 87 mph fastball again, if not, then it time to say thank you old friend but we need to move on.

Hendricks would be signed 5 minutes after he clears waivers. MLB daily reports look like a medical war zone update because of all the attrition to injury

[Derwood]

2 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

Hendricks would be signed 5 minutes after he clears waivers. MLB daily reports look like a medical war zone update because of all the attrition to injury

Why would he go through waivers if they put him in the IL?

[LBiittner]

3 minutes ago, Derwood said:

Why would he go through waivers if they put him in the IL?

Because I was responding to chibear when he said "then it's time to move on".

I took "moving on" is saying buh-bye.

Edited April 17, 2024 by LBiittner

[WhyCantWeWin]

They can probably get away with putting him on the IL. Just say his capsular tear is flaring up again. 

Edited April 17, 2024 by WhyCantWeWin

[Outshined_One]

2 minutes ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

They can probably get away with putting him on the IL. Just say his capsular tear is flaring up again. 

"Shoulder soreness"

[chibears55]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

Hendricks would be signed 5 minutes after he clears waivers. MLB daily reports look like a medical war zone update because of all the attrition to injury

Doubt it, but if so good luck ..

If the guy throwing 87 mph with no movement still after a month of working with Hottovy, then I doubt a team unless they're like the Whitesox are going to bring him in just to get clobbered around for 3-4 innings, also I doubt Hendricks would allow himself to continue if he can't figure it out.

[chibears55]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

Because I was responding to chibear when he said "then it's time to move on".

I took "moving on" is saying buh-bye.

Yes, in a month after being on IL and he still throwing 87 with little to no movement after working with Hottovy to try and fix the issue.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

2 hours ago, CubinNY said:

Open pool of starter fluid, just add match or Jesus on a stick? Stay tuned Cubs fans. 

Even at his worst, he eats up innings. At the very least, he can give the pen some relief.

And to that end, my answer to @squally1313’s question of what Jed could’ve done differently to improve bullpen performance, and this is obviously with the benefit of hindsight now knowing Kyle is toast (fairly certain I have a post on here in favor of picking up his option, but there’s a reason I don’t get paid to make these decisions), is let him walk and put that money toward Montgomery. If guys that aren’t used to the full season MLB workload factor so heavily into the rotation (Wicks, Shota, Assad, Brown, and Wesneski being five of the top eight rotation options) AND you have questions in your bullpen, handing a rotation spot to Hendricks was a mistake.

[squally1313]

13 minutes ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

Even at his worst, he eats up innings. At the very least, he can give the pen some relief.

And to that end, my answer to @squally1313’s question of what Jed could’ve done differently to improve bullpen performance, and this is obviously with the benefit of hindsight now knowing Kyle is toast (fairly certain I have a post on here in favor of picking up his option, but there’s a reason I don’t get paid to make these decisions), is let him walk and put that money toward Montgomery. If guys that aren’t used to the full season MLB workload factor so heavily into the rotation (Wicks, Shota, Assad, Brown, and Wesneski being five of the top eight rotation options) AND you have questions in your bullpen, handing a rotation spot to Hendricks was a mistake.

Agreed generally on the concept of stacking up guys with proven track records of eating innings. Seems like there were a couple easier 40 man spots to open up, and then there were more creative routes (Alcantara, Mervis, Davis trades). Hendricks v Montgomery was never really the decision though. Hendrick's option was picked up in November, which at the time all the crowd sourcing sites were projecting 5/100 for Montgomery. Sure, the way it played out, of course you'd make that choice. But there was no way of knowing that the market for Montgomery would have collapsed.

(slightly more realistic version: give the Bellinger money to Montgomery)

[Bobson Dugnutt]

21 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Agreed generally on the concept of stacking up guys with proven track records of eating innings. Seems like there were a couple easier 40 man spots to open up, and then there were more creative routes (Alcantara, Mervis, Davis trades). Hendricks v Montgomery was never really the decision though. Hendrick's option was picked up in November, which at the time all the crowd sourcing sites were projecting 5/100 for Montgomery. Sure, the way it played out, of course you'd make that choice. But there was no way of knowing that the market for Montgomery would have collapsed.

(slightly more realistic version: give the Bellinger money to Montgomery)

Agreed on the timeline, but I think the Hendricks decision can even be looked at in a vacuum. Regardless of who the alternatives are, it seems Hoyer had two rotation slots to fill. Kyle had the dead cat bounce last year, but probably shouldn’t have been considered a safe bet, at least not enough to lock up one rotation spot in November.

 

That said, though, the top pitchers on the market were probably always destined for LAD (Yamamoto) and Philly (Nola). Take out those guys and the Boras guys and it was pretty slim pickings.

[squally1313]

23 minutes ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

Agreed on the timeline, but I think the Hendricks decision can even be looked at in a vacuum. Regardless of who the alternatives are, it seems Hoyer had two rotation slots to fill. Kyle had the dead cat bounce last year, but probably shouldn’t have been considered a safe bet, at least not enough to lock up one rotation spot in November.

 

That said, though, the top pitchers on the market were probably always destined for LAD (Yamamoto) and Philly (Nola). Take out those guys and the Boras guys and it was pretty slim pickings.

Yeah, obviously you want your FO to be smart enough to predict Kyle being probably washed up and move on accordingly (something they did really well with the rest of that core). Lot of other nuances at play there, his history and longevity with the club, potential budget uncertainty, a pretty thin overall pitching market in general to your point. 

The one I keep going back to is Sonny Gray, who's been a pretty reliable 3+ win/150 inning guy for the last 5 years now. Obviously he's a mid 30s pitcher, but feel like he signed so early that no one was really that concerned about his name coming off the market. I remember being generally against just stacking 3ish win guys at $20+m a year, especially if they lock themselves into a position/rotation spot that blocks a Shaw/PCA/Horton/etc. But here we are three weeks in with three lingering injuries to Steele/Taillon/Seiya, plus Merryweather sapping the bullpen. Things would have, unfortunately, worked themselves out (if the money was even there in the first place). 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

16 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Yeah, obviously you want your FO to be smart enough to predict Kyle being probably washed up and move on accordingly (something they did really well with the rest of that core). Lot of other nuances at play there, his history and longevity with the club, potential budget uncertainty, a pretty thin overall pitching market in general to your point. 

The one I keep going back to is Sonny Gray, who's been a pretty reliable 3+ win/150 inning guy for the last 5 years now. Obviously he's a mid 30s pitcher, but feel like he signed so early that no one was really that concerned about his name coming off the market. I remember being generally against just stacking 3ish win guys at $20+m a year, especially if they lock themselves into a position/rotation spot that blocks a Shaw/PCA/Horton/etc. But here we are three weeks in with three lingering injuries to Steele/Taillon/Seiya, plus Merryweather sapping the bullpen. Things would have, unfortunately, worked themselves out (if the money was even there in the first place). 

Gray is the name that stood out to me as I was skimming through spotrac earlier.

 

I’m really high on the long term outlook for the rotation, but it’s going to be tricky to cobble together the next couple months. But if we’re looking at a rotation of Steele/Shota/Taillon/Wicks/Horton with Assad/Brown/Wesneski as spot start/multi-inning options as soon as this season, we’ll be in good shape to not be taxing the pen every night.

 

I don’t think much of our non big three options in the pen (though Smyly has acquitted himself fairly well in relief), but if their usage can be minimized, we’ll be fine.

[Stratos]

11 hours ago, chibears55 said:

Doubt it, but if so good luck ..

If the guy throwing 87 mph with no movement still after a month of working with Hottovy, then I doubt a team unless they're like the Whitesox are going to bring him in just to get clobbered around for 3-4 innings, also I doubt Hendricks would allow himself to continue if he can't figure it out.

Years ago I remember Hendricks throwing sinkers that actually moved. Now its crappy BP fastballs.

[Stratos]

Hendricks sucks balls, bullpen sucks balls, hoping Taillon doesn't suck balls again, but will probably be better than Hendricks either way.

[chibears55]

12 hours ago, Stratos said:

Hendricks sucks balls, bullpen sucks balls, hoping Taillon doesn't suck balls again, but will probably be better than Hendricks either way.

Not sure how he can be any worse..

3 ip 5R

4 ip 5R

5ip 7R

4ip 7R

17ip 24R