Bulls off-season thread

[Tim]

basketball is just a boring game until the last 5 minutes. I would argue the higher scoring games are actually more boring than when it was lower scoring.

That's just the soccer fan in you.

[stitchface]

there's no tension

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I guess I'm "'get off my lawn' guy".

 

Under the umbrella of "I can watch any sporting event no matter what", the modern NBA is painful to watch. So painful.

 

The other thing is that the slate of teams that could win the NBA championship in a given year is much smaller than it is in any other sport. Very unappealing.

 

Eh, going into the playoffs this year there were like 8-9 teams you could’ve made a legitimate case for winning it.

 

I think this has gotten a bit better, but a team with a top 3-5 player in the league has won like 12 of the last 15 finals. Sometimes that star is a bit emergent(like Kawhi with Toronto), but that top heaviness compared with the extreme player power in the league makes it a much more powerless existence for most NBA teams compared to other sports. At least in the Bulls case they're more attractive a literal destination than many others so they can break the cycle.

 

I mean, I tend to think the bolded is a feature, not a bug. Mike Trout being buried on the perennially mediocre Angels for a decade or, inversely, an 83-win cardinals team being able to magical run their way through October is not that appealing to me. I’d prefer to see the best players face off on the biggest stage. Maybe it’s the length of time that NBA players tend to hold that mantle that makes it feel stale, but I do think things have leveled out quite a bit in recent years.

 

I’m glad we’re past the four-year run of Cavs-warriors being an inevitability. There’s been 7 different franchises in the finals the past 4 seasons, and not all of them have been from the usual suspect franchises. Maybe it’s premature to call this the new normal, but the current landscape seems a decent bit flatter than years past.

 

As far as market size or attractiveness of destinations go, I’m not sure how much of a factor this is. LeBron put in two stints in Cleveland, Giannis has stuck around Milwaukee, CP3 has elevated OKC and Phoenix, Memphis is an ascendant franchise with a bona fire superstar that’s already gotten as high as the two seed in the west, etc. it takes luck no doubt, but player empowerment also makes it possible for guys like LeBron, KD, Kawhi, CP3, etc. to be a bit more nomadic and infuse multiple franchises with talent and championship hope throughout their careers.

[raw]

basketball is just a boring game until the last 5 minutes. I would argue the higher scoring games are actually more boring than when it was lower scoring.

 

I kinda agree. There's no battling for rebounds, no defense until the end of games. There's 3-point shots and then everyone gets back on defense, leaving uncontested rebounds for the defense (why you have guards getting double digit boards these days). But I think overall, the talent and athleticism right now overshadows everything else. Just a much more athletic and skilled game these days.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

As far as market size or attractiveness of destinations go, I’m not sure how much of a factor this is. LeBron put in two stints in Cleveland, Giannis has stuck around Milwaukee, CP3 has elevated OKC and Phoenix, Memphis is an ascendant franchise with a bona fire superstar that’s already gotten as high as the two seed in the west, etc. it takes luck no doubt, but player empowerment also makes it possible for guys like LeBron, KD, Kawhi, CP3, etc. to be a bit more nomadic and infuse multiple franchises with talent and championship hope throughout their careers.

 

This kinda makes the point. As a fan of a team you have to hope to be extremely fortunate with a draft pick, or you're at the whims of whatever a top player feels like doing for his next gig, sometimes both. For me at least it's difficult to be invested in a team that has so little autonomy relative to other sports in its ability to create a championship roster.

[CubinNY]

As far as market size or attractiveness of destinations go, I’m not sure how much of a factor this is. LeBron put in two stints in Cleveland, Giannis has stuck around Milwaukee, CP3 has elevated OKC and Phoenix, Memphis is an ascendant franchise with a bona fire superstar that’s already gotten as high as the two seed in the west, etc. it takes luck no doubt, but player empowerment also makes it possible for guys like LeBron, KD, Kawhi, CP3, etc. to be a bit more nomadic and infuse multiple franchises with talent and championship hope throughout their careers.

 

This kinda makes the point. As a fan of a team you have to hope to be extremely fortunate with a draft pick, or you're at the whims of whatever a top player feels like doing for his next gig, sometimes both. For me at least it's difficult to be invested in a team that has so little autonomy relative to other sports in its ability to create a championship roster.

I get that and mostly agree with it, at the same time it's the best league for its players. The challenge is for capital/management to build an environment where people want to stay and gravitate towards. I can see a situation in the near future where a team offers some small percentage of ownership to high-level influence players.

 

N = 1 basketball is by far my son's favorite sport to watch on TV.

[raw]

As far as market size or attractiveness of destinations go, I’m not sure how much of a factor this is. LeBron put in two stints in Cleveland, Giannis has stuck around Milwaukee, CP3 has elevated OKC and Phoenix, Memphis is an ascendant franchise with a bona fire superstar that’s already gotten as high as the two seed in the west, etc. it takes luck no doubt, but player empowerment also makes it possible for guys like LeBron, KD, Kawhi, CP3, etc. to be a bit more nomadic and infuse multiple franchises with talent and championship hope throughout their careers.

 

This kinda makes the point. As a fan of a team you have to hope to be extremely fortunate with a draft pick, or you're at the whims of whatever a top player feels like doing for his next gig, sometimes both. For me at least it's difficult to be invested in a team that has so little autonomy relative to other sports in its ability to create a championship roster.

I get that and mostly agree with it, at the same time it's the best league for its players. The challenge is for capital/management to build an environment where people want to stay and gravitate towards. I can see a situation in the near future where a team offers some small percentage of ownership to high-level influence players.

 

N = 1 basketball is by far my son's favorite sport to watch on TV.

 

That's what makes the NBA better than MLB, for one. NBA actually markets its players. MLB markets "the game". Trout might be the best baseball player of all time, he should be everywhere like LeBron is. And he plays in a huge market in LA, just like LeBron. I also think MLB has as much autonomy as the NBA for franchises to create championship rosters. Just like the NBA, your franchise has to be willing to pay the luxury tax. Obviously, players can't choose where they want while on a contract. And it takes more than 1-2 players to swing a 26 man roster instead of a 15, but MLB teams have just as much ability to spend like the Dodgers and Yankees. And nothing is stopping players from recruiting other big names the way the NFL and NBA do.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I also think MLB has as much autonomy as the NBA for franchises to create championship rosters. Just like the NBA, your franchise has to be willing to pay the luxury tax.

 

It has way more autonomy than the NBA for a few reasons. As a sport, an individual player or even couple of players are way less essential to a championship roster, and teams have much more equal access to those players. The means for that equal access(minor leagues, less certainty in drafted players, pre-FA salary limits) are not without their downsides, but if the Pacers just decide "we're gonna pay the luxury tax" they need a lot of external (and frankly, unlikely) things to happen between that decision and having a title contender. And even if it were true, that reduces fandom to ownership olympics compared with needing a consistently competent organization like is necessary on the MLB side to sustain success through the minors and general player development.

 

 

And nothing is stopping players from recruiting other big names the way the NFL and NBA do.

 

The NBA's salary structure plays a big role in this because players are choosing from very equivalent offers, especially on the high end with the Hardens/Durants of the world and it has the most impact on title hopes. Playing in a preferred city or with your buddies becomes a much bigger deal when teams can't really differentiate on money.

[Andy]

The NBA's salary structure plays a big role in this because players are choosing from very equivalent offers, especially on the high end with the Hardens/Durants of the world and it has the most impact on title hopes. Playing in a preferred city or with your buddies becomes a much bigger deal when teams can't really differentiate on money.

I've said for a while that if the NBA wants to stop the superteam thing (and there's little indication they do), the easiest possible thing would be to dump max contracts. Anthony Davis might not be engineering his way to LA if they're paying LeBron $80M a year or whatever and don't have the cap room to give him as much as 15 small-market teams who would all happily pay him more than the current max.

[CubinNY]

Basball and soccer are weak link sports - the value of the team in terms of winning meaning that the good teams have the strongest "weak" links. Basketball is much different. The winning teams are strong link sports - the value of the team in terms of good teams are based on having a few of the best players. That's why a team like the Angles can have the two best players in the league and not win.

[Derwood]

MLB’s problem is that they are stubbornly regional in their marketing. Some of this is due to season length, but unless there’s a transcendent player like Derek Jeter who happens to capture a national audience, MLB is content to not push, say, Jose Ramirez anywhere outside of Cleveland.

[Old Style]

[UMFan83]

 

Sorry Giannis. Been teased way too many times about superstars coming here. You won’t get my hopes up at all.

[UMFan83]

 

I believe the full schedule, with National TV games, is released Wednesday. Will #TNTBulls finally return, or will their unprecedented winning streak continue for another year?

[UMFan83]

Bulls schedule released. Looks like they have 3 TNT games, with 1 at home against the Bucks and several other ESPN/NBA TV games

 

[Derwood]

It’s a mystery to me why MLB and NFL networks are standard on DirecTV, but NBA and NHL are premium

[Andy]

It’s a mystery to me why MLB and NFL networks are standard on DirecTV, but NBA and NHL are premium

The NFL can do whatever they want, MLB Network is partially owned by all the cable companies, and the two other ones are owned by their leagues. That's probably what it comes down to.

[Old Style]

[Old Style]

Horace Grant is selling all of his championship rings

[UMFan83]

Horace Grant is selling all of his championship rings

 

From what I read, he actually sold them off years ago for charity. This is a second-hand person selling them.

[UMFan83]

 

Is this to like soften Giannis up so he doesn't try as hard against us?

[Old Style]

 

:banghead:

[17 Seconds]

40 wins

[SpongeWorthy]

 

hoo boy

[17 Seconds]

blow it up, try to build something different around zach