Chicago Bears offseason

[raw]

So with Kyle Long retiring, it's probably no better time to make some judgments about his career. He was a 1st round pick, but 20th overall, so you expect a relatively productive career but not greatness. When he played, he was pretty good. But he was a 25 year old rookie, probably one of the biggest knocks against him coming out. He only got three full seasons in before falling apart and spent the next four in and out of the lineup due to health. I think he did enough to justify the pick, but still came up way short from what you'd hope to get from a 1st rounder, especially an interior lineman which have reputations for longevity.

 

At one point Long was the feather in Phil Emery's cap, with Shea McClellin the obvious gaffe and Kyle Fuller being questionable. Now, Fuller is the obvious top pick from the Emery era, while Leno is the only other notable one.

 

Damn, that Emery era was terrible and entirely predictable.

 

Still think Pace gets internal credit for righting the ship and that is why he'll get a longer rope than some would have hoped.

 

2013 was an interesting draft. Really bad at the top with Fisher, Joeckel, Mingo, Jon Cooper, Tavon Austin, and Dion Jordan failing to live up to expectations. But then you have some absolute studs down in the draft like Hopkins, Slay, Ertz, Leveon, Kelce, Armstead, Keenan Allen, etc.

 

Long probably gets propped up a bit, because he was the face of the franchise after the Lovie era which had a bunch of personalities. He lasted thru the end of the Cutler era, one of the few Trestman era survivors. Basically the Bears version of Starlin Castro.

 

But I agree with that last part. I think fans are looking at it as Pace has had 5 years to turn things around. But I think internally, they see him building a long-term contender. They see the talent he has amassed and I don't think starting over is something they see as an option. May or may not have forced Fox on him as a hire to turn around the lockerroom. Young GM and young coach leads me to believe this is a long-term move. I'm fully expecting Pace to get another shot to pick a QB.

[jersey cubs fan]

So with Kyle Long retiring, it's probably no better time to make some judgments about his career. He was a 1st round pick, but 20th overall, so you expect a relatively productive career but not greatness. When he played, he was pretty good. But he was a 25 year old rookie, probably one of the biggest knocks against him coming out. He only got three full seasons in before falling apart and spent the next four in and out of the lineup due to health. I think he did enough to justify the pick, but still came up way short from what you'd hope to get from a 1st rounder, especially an interior lineman which have reputations for longevity.

 

At one point Long was the feather in Phil Emery's cap, with Shea McClellin the obvious gaffe and Kyle Fuller being questionable. Now, Fuller is the obvious top pick from the Emery era, while Leno is the only other notable one.

 

Damn, that Emery era was terrible and entirely predictable.

 

Still think Pace gets internal credit for righting the ship and that is why he'll get a longer rope than some would have hoped.

 

2013 was an interesting draft. Really bad at the top with Fisher, Joeckel, Mingo, Jon Cooper, Tavon Austin, and Dion Jordan failing to live up to expectations. But then you have some absolute studs down in the draft like Hopkins, Slay, Ertz, Leveon, Kelce, Armstead, Keenan Allen, etc.

 

Long probably gets propped up a bit, because he was the face of the franchise after the Lovie era which had a bunch of personalities. He lasted thru the end of the Cutler era, one of the few Trestman era survivors. Basically the Bears version of Starlin Castro.

 

But I agree with that last part. I think fans are looking at it as Pace has had 5 years to turn things around. But I think internally, they see him building a long-term contender. They see the talent he has amassed and I don't think starting over is something they see as an option. May or may not have forced Fox on him as a hire to turn around the lockerroom. Young GM and young coach leads me to believe this is a long-term move. I'm fully expecting Pace to get another shot to pick a QB.

that's a good comp

[David]

 

1. points for the Cutty jersey

 

2. is it possible they are celebrating the death of the career of Brett Favre here??? I can only make out there's a downed player and it looks like ESPN game graphics

 

 

that's definitely favre post wooton slamming him into the frozen field in minnesota

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

1. points for the Cutty jersey

 

2. is it possible they are celebrating the death of the career of Brett Favre here??? I can only make out there's a downed player and it looks like ESPN game graphics

 

 

that's definitely favre post wooton slamming him into the frozen field in minnesota

 

thus fulfilling jersey's prophecy that "SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET HURT!!!!!" on that wonderfully hellish & icy Monday night

[WrigleyField 22]

So with Kyle Long retiring, it's probably no better time to make some judgments about his career. He was a 1st round pick, but 20th overall, so you expect a relatively productive career but not greatness. When he played, he was pretty good. But he was a 25 year old rookie, probably one of the biggest knocks against him coming out. He only got three full seasons in before falling apart and spent the next four in and out of the lineup due to health. I think he did enough to justify the pick, but still came up way short from what you'd hope to get from a 1st rounder, especially an interior lineman which have reputations for longevity.

 

At one point Long was the feather in Phil Emery's cap, with Shea McClellin the obvious gaffe and Kyle Fuller being questionable. Now, Fuller is the obvious top pick from the Emery era, while Leno is the only other notable one.

 

Damn, that Emery era was terrible and entirely predictable.

 

Still think Pace gets internal credit for righting the ship and that is why he'll get a longer rope than some would have hoped.

 

2013 was an interesting draft. Really bad at the top with Fisher, Joeckel, Mingo, Jon Cooper, Tavon Austin, and Dion Jordan failing to live up to expectations. But then you have some absolute studs down in the draft like Hopkins, Slay, Ertz, Leveon, Kelce, Armstead, Keenan Allen, etc.

 

Long probably gets propped up a bit, because he was the face of the franchise after the Lovie era which had a bunch of personalities. He lasted thru the end of the Cutler era, one of the few Trestman era survivors. Basically the Bears version of Starlin Castro.

 

But I agree with that last part. I think fans are looking at it as Pace has had 5 years to turn things around. But I think internally, they see him building a long-term contender. They see the talent he has amassed and I don't think starting over is something they see as an option. May or may not have forced Fox on him as a hire to turn around the lockerroom. Young GM and young coach leads me to believe this is a long-term move. I'm fully expecting Pace to get another shot to pick a QB.

that's a good comp

Yes, I like this analogy.

 

As for the patience of Pace, I think its clear things could be much worse. I guess the McCaskeys just have to be comfortable with Pace's process and thinking that has led to this. The 5 year record is clearly not good, but if you handicap the "building" years and see 2019 as a blip, I doubt they are thinking of a move anytime soon.

 

I'd still pretty much tie Pace and Nagy together. Right now Pace has 2 years left on his contract and Nagy 3. Nagy would have to be really bad next year to move on after year 3, I think, so he'll get a 4th year, barring a 2-14 season or something. So the question then ends up being if Pace can go into his final year/Nagy's 4th year as a potential lame duck GM. Or if things go well in 2020 again (even modest success like 10-6), they may look to extend them both.

 

I don't love these comps as there is some confirmation bias, but I saw this elsewhere and thought it was pretty interesting. If you're viewing Pace/Nagy as the package deal, there is plenty of evidence to support patience (as long as you kind of wave off Pace's Y1-3 record). Outside of these teams below, of recent SB winners you have the Pats dynasty, Denver who won in Y1 of Kubiak after stalling under Fox, Steelers at the end of Cowher/Y2 of Tomlin basically and extension of that dynasty, and Philly winning in Y2 under Pederson (and then a couple repeat SB winners from this list). But clearly a lot of good coaches/dynasties taking some time to meld.

 

Rams

1996 6 – 10

Dick Vermeil becomes HC

1997 5 – 11

1998 4 – 12

1999 13 – 3 (Super Bowl XXXIV Champions)

 

Giants

2003 4 - 12

Tom Coughlin becomes HC

2004 6 – 10

2005 11 – 5

2006 8 – 8

2007 10 – 6 (Super Bowl XLII Champions)

 

Saints

2005 3 - 13

Sean Payton becomes HC

2006 10 – 6

2007 7 – 9

2008 8 – 8

2009 13 – 3 (Super Bowl XLIV Champions)

 

Packers

2006 8 – 8

Mike McCarthy becomes HC

2007 13 – 3

2008 6 – 10

2009 11 – 5

2010 10 – 6 (Super Bowl XLV Champions)

 

Seahawks

2009 5 – 11

Pete Carroll becomes HC

2010 7 – 9

2011 7 – 9

2012 11 – 5

2013 13 – 3 (Super Bowl XLVIII Champions)

 

The tough part for Pace will be threading the needle from the 2018-2020 window he initially set up, to re-opening the window in 2021 without any reset/retool year.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

thus fulfilling jersey's prophecy that "SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET HURT!!!!!" on that wonderfully hellish & icy Monday night

[ConstableRabbit]

 

2013 was an interesting draft. Really bad at the top with Fisher, Joeckel, Mingo, Jon Cooper, Tavon Austin, and Dion Jordan failing to live up to expectations. But then you have some absolute studs down in the draft like Hopkins, Slay, Ertz, Leveon, Kelce, Armstead, Keenan Allen, etc.

 

Long probably gets propped up a bit, because he was the face of the franchise after the Lovie era which had a bunch of personalities. He lasted thru the end of the Cutler era, one of the few Trestman era survivors. Basically the Bears version of Starlin Castro.

 

But I agree with that last part. I think fans are looking at it as Pace has had 5 years to turn things around. But I think internally, they see him building a long-term contender. They see the talent he has amassed and I don't think starting over is something they see as an option. May or may not have forced Fox on him as a hire to turn around the lockerroom. Young GM and young coach leads me to believe this is a long-term move. I'm fully expecting Pace to get another shot to pick a QB.

that's a good comp

Yes, I like this analogy.

 

As for the patience of Pace, I think its clear things could be much worse. I guess the McCaskeys just have to be comfortable with Pace's process and thinking that has led to this. The 5 year record is clearly not good, but if you handicap the "building" years and see 2019 as a blip, I doubt they are thinking of a move anytime soon.

 

I'd still pretty much tie Pace and Nagy together. Right now Pace has 2 years left on his contract and Nagy 3. Nagy would have to be really bad next year to move on after year 3, I think, so he'll get a 4th year, barring a 2-14 season or something. So the question then ends up being if Pace can go into his final year/Nagy's 4th year as a potential lame duck GM. Or if things go well in 2020 again (even modest success like 10-6), they may look to extend them both.

 

I don't love these comps as there is some confirmation bias, but I saw this elsewhere and thought it was pretty interesting. If you're viewing Pace/Nagy as the package deal, there is plenty of evidence to support patience (as long as you kind of wave off Pace's Y1-3 record). Outside of these teams below, of recent SB winners you have the Pats dynasty, Denver who won in Y1 of Kubiak after stalling under Fox, Steelers at the end of Cowher/Y2 of Tomlin basically and extension of that dynasty, and Philly winning in Y2 under Pederson (and then a couple repeat SB winners from this list). But clearly a lot of good coaches/dynasties taking some time to meld.

 

Rams

1996 6 – 10

Dick Vermeil becomes HC

1997 5 – 11

1998 4 – 12

1999 13 – 3 (Super Bowl XXXIV Champions)

 

Giants

2003 4 - 12

Tom Coughlin becomes HC

2004 6 – 10

2005 11 – 5

2006 8 – 8

2007 10 – 6 (Super Bowl XLII Champions)

 

Saints

2005 3 - 13

Sean Payton becomes HC

2006 10 – 6

2007 7 – 9

2008 8 – 8

2009 13 – 3 (Super Bowl XLIV Champions)

 

Packers

2006 8 – 8

Mike McCarthy becomes HC

2007 13 – 3

2008 6 – 10

2009 11 – 5

2010 10 – 6 (Super Bowl XLV Champions)

 

Seahawks

2009 5 – 11

Pete Carroll becomes HC

2010 7 – 9

2011 7 – 9

2012 11 – 5

2013 13 – 3 (Super Bowl XLVIII Champions)

 

The tough part for Pace will be threading the needle from the 2018-2020 window he initially set up, to re-opening the window in 2021 without any reset/retool year.

What else did all of those teams have? A quarterback!

[WrigleyField 22]

If "having a QB" can be classified as a Joe Flacco or Eli Manning I still have hope the Bears can get that relatively soon.

 

Edit, realized I left Ravens off the initial list. They had the most early success of those examples, but the SB came a little later.

Ravens

2007 5 - 11

John Harbaugh becomes HC

2008 11 – 5

2009 9 – 7

2010 12 – 4

2011 12 – 4

2012 10 – 6 (Super Bowl XLVII Champions)

[jersey cubs fan]

Bears hired Clancy Barone as TE coach, he's got a bunch of time as a TE and OL coach at the NFL level, Minnesota and Denver most recently.

[raw]

Bears hired Clancy Barone as TE coach, he's got a bunch of time as a TE and OL coach at the NFL level, Minnesota and Denver most recently.

 

TE coach for Kyle Rudolph's last pro bowl season.

TE coach for Julius Thomas' only 2 pro bowl seasons

TE coach for 2 of Antonio Gates' pro bowl seasons.

 

Julius Thomas is the one of interest here as he was the TE coach for all of Thomas's seasons in Denver. So, he "developed" him.

[WrigleyField 22]

Sounds good to me.

[WrigleyField 22]

Has a Pace Connection. Sounds like he recruited him while at EIU.

 

Pace played linebacker at Edward S. Marcus High School before committing to Eastern Illinois in 1995; he had also received offers from Illinois State, North Texas, Texas State, and Western Illinois. EIU offensive line coach and recruiting coordinator Clancy Barone praised Pace for his speed and athleticism, saying he "showed good toughness on film."

[jersey cubs fan]

Eagles fired OC Mike Groh.

 

He was formerly a WR coach, including time with the Bears. Given the system synergy, it's possible he'd be the type of guy Nagy would like to hire as a OC that doesn't call plays.

[raw]

Eagles fired OC Mike Groh.

 

He was formerly a WR coach, including time with the Bears. Given the system synergy, it's possible he'd be the type of guy Nagy would like to hire as a OC that doesn't call plays.

 

Eagles also seem like potential competition for Pat Shurmur.

[MidoreX]

Eagles fired OC Mike Groh.

 

He was formerly a WR coach, including time with the Bears. Given the system synergy, it's possible he'd be the type of guy Nagy would like to hire as a OC that doesn't call plays.

 

Eagles also seem like potential competition for Pat Shurmur.

 

Shurmur has been hired as the Broncos OC. Apparently the bears made him an offer and were rejected. Shurmur had supposedly been high on Drew Lock before the Giants picked Jones and is looking forward to coaching him... Additionally, Nagy's control over play-calling and the offense in general vs being 100% the guy in Denver under Fangio are believed to have been important to him.

 

Not a good sign for our search

[WrigleyField 22]

Eagles fired OC Mike Groh.

 

He was formerly a WR coach, including time with the Bears. Given the system synergy, it's possible he'd be the type of guy Nagy would like to hire as a OC that doesn't call plays.

 

Eagles also seem like potential competition for Pat Shurmur.

 

Shurmur has been hired as the Broncos OC. Apparently the bears made him an offer and were rejected. Shurmur had supposedly been high on Drew Lock before the Giants picked Jones and is looking forward to coaching him... Additionally, Nagy's control over play-calling and the offense in general vs being 100% the guy in Denver under Fangio are believed to have been important to him.

 

Not a good sign for our search

This shouldn't be too surprising. Nagy will be at a disadvantage in hiring experienced OC candidates, like any offensive head coach. While I know most are eager to see Nagy give up play calling, it might be better if he keeps doing it and either figures it out or fails and then they can move on.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Eagles also seem like potential competition for Pat Shurmur.

 

Shurmur has been hired as the Broncos OC. Apparently the bears made him an offer and were rejected. Shurmur had supposedly been high on Drew Lock before the Giants picked Jones and is looking forward to coaching him... Additionally, Nagy's control over play-calling and the offense in general vs being 100% the guy in Denver under Fangio are believed to have been important to him.

 

Not a good sign for our search

This shouldn't be too surprising. Nagy will be at a disadvantage in hiring experienced OC candidates, like any offensive head coach. While I know most are eager to see Nagy give up play calling, it might be better if he keeps doing it and either figures it out or fails and then they can move on.

Yeah, I don't really feel the need to see Nagy give up playcalling.

 

Anyway, they are hiring Bill Lazor?

[jersey cubs fan]

[WrigleyField 22]

Seems kind of meh, but fine. This offensive staff collectively has a lot more experience than the last one, at least.

[Butterscup]

Randy Moss' son Thaddeus Moss, TE on LSU, isn't that highly regarded at this point but I think he'll be a stud and if he declares this year Bears should take him late day 2/on day 3

[raw]

Randy Moss' son Thaddeus Moss, TE on LSU, isn't that highly regarded at this point but I think he'll be a stud and if he declares this year Bears should take him late day 2/on day 3

 

I think if he comes out he'll be a top 3 TE. Probably go right around the Bears 2nd pick (50).

[UK]

 

Brad Childress will not be back.

[David]

 

Wow... no more Bourbonnais

 

EDIT - They're saying there will still be activities open to the public at Halas Hall, though.

[raw]

Jimbo Covert and Ed Sprinkle become the 29th and league leading, 30th Hall of Famers from the Chicago Bears.

[Butterscup]