2020 roster

[Deeg]

Is it wrong Im leaning towards blowing this team up rather than half-ass trying to improve it?

 

Yes, because a blow-up means 2-3 years of gross baseball and I'm getting too old for that horsefeathers

 

The mid-2010s Bulls employed the middle way the Cubs seem about to embark on. How's that worked out?

[Cubswin11]

Is it wrong Im leaning towards blowing this team up rather than half-ass trying to improve it?

 

Yes, because a blow-up means 2-3 years of gross baseball and I'm getting too old for that horsefeathers

 

The mid-2010s Bulls employed the middle way the Cubs seem about to embark on. How's that worked out?

At least when the Cubs dig out from some of these salaries and have money to spend again they could actually attract some of the top FA when they hit the market assuming they will run $200 million payrolls again. They aren’t the joke amongst the league with players/agents the Bulls are.

[Tim]

They aren’t the joke amongst the league with players/agents the Bulls are.

 

They are, OTOH, trying really really really super hard to be with everything done since the WS win

When my daughter was a teenager she wasn't as dramatic as some of you guys.

[Cubswin11]

When my daughter was a teenager she wasn't as dramatic as some of you guys.

 

I might agree on some of the other stuff, like that Bryant's been boiled down to YoC and his age at FA is insane, but pre-praising the Ricketts for future spending way less than this franchise can afford but up to the salary cap they're fighting for is gross

I wasn’t praising the Ricketts. I’m was just pointing out that the doom bonnering they’ll become the Bulls is a bit much if we can assume they’ll keep spending in the $200 million range. Since unlike the Bulls we can draw FA when we decide to spend and don’t get laughed out the gym/don’t even get an interview with a top tier FA.

[Cubswin11]

I wasn’t praising the Ricketts. I’m was just pointing out that the doom bonnering they’ll become the Bulls is a bit much if we can assume they’ll keep spending in the $200 million range. Since unlike the Bulls we can draw FA when we decide to spend and don’t get laughed out the gym/don’t even get an interview with a top tier FA.

 

Whatever you want to call it, still such an extremely positive stance based on their future willingness to spend less than they did in 2018 after all the media rights are figured out and the network gets launched plus whatever else is going on (Rickettsville, etc)

They still talk about being able to spend in the future on things. I don’t think we’re looking at things getting gutted down anytime soon unless we go back to purposely doing it like pre-2015 tanking. We also have kinda heard hints the network and Ricketsville was a miss or is taking long to realize revenues on (especially the network with the structure of owning it and funding upstart instead of taking a check from an RSN). Not an excuse, they obviously can spend but I can also see how this is a temporary pull back from the middle LT tier and not a long term thing. I’m trying to find a little something to stay positive about long term here.

[Cubswin11]

I’m trying to find a little something to stay positive about long term here.

 

Come on....by insinuating it will be a good thing that the Ricketts might one day decide to carry a payroll significantly lower than 2019's?! It was an odd route is all I'm saying

 

I'll throw one out there...not only are they launching a network but MLB is allowing teams to shop their streaming rights now. The Cubs - thanks to this network - will be able to sell their streaming rights without having to negotiate with an RSN, something pretty much everyone else but the Yankees will have to deal with

I’m not saying it’s a good thing right now, it obviously sucks. All I’m saying is that we don’t need to be dooming and glooming about long term spending and what it all means to the point of likening it to the Bulls or how we’re only going to run Brewer level payrolls for eternity. The streaming thing is big, but again something they currently aren’t making money on and likely have to spend some up front money on to get going. Long term good, right now may have them tight up (in their eyes and how they operate).

[Deeg]

I think the most objective reading of the tea leaves right now is that the Rickettses got what they wanted in 2016, and at this point they see the franchise as an ATM and nothing more. If someone wants to read them more positively that's certainly valid - I just don't see it myself.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is it wrong Im leaning towards blowing this team up rather than half-ass trying to improve it?

 

Yes, because a blow-up means 2-3 years of gross baseball and I'm getting too old for that horsefeathers

 

The mid-2010s Bulls employed the middle way the Cubs seem about to embark on. How's that worked out?

Horrible comparison.

 

NBA is an actual salary cap league and the sport is extremely star dependent, which teams often luck into.

 

No big market MLB team has to do anything resembling an NBA style rebuild.

[Banedon]

What does a blow up look like? Who's untouchable in a blow up? Rizzo? Baez? Hendricks?

[jersey cubs fan]

What does a blow up look like? Who's untouchable in a blow up? Rizzo? Baez? Hendricks?

If you blow up the team and keep Rizzo you're doing it wrong. And if you are making that ridiculous decision, what is the point of keeping Baez?

 

Hendricks might bring back some value as well, but at some point you need arms that can throw major league innings to complete a 6-month season.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What does a blow up look like? Who's untouchable in a blow up? Rizzo? Baez? Hendricks?

 

Baez if he extends, Hendricks, probably Hoerner, anyone with ceiling in the minors. You don't set out to trade everyone else, but if you're actively blowing up the team there's no reason to be precious with the Schwarbers of the world.

 

I think a better way of looking at 'blowing it up' is more one season at a time. Don't set out to trade for guys in A ball(at least as primary targets), but have the attitude of trying to increase team control and making next year better than this one.

 

To be clear though, blowing it up is a preposterous idea for a team with the Cubs' resources and current talent. Look at the Red Sox in this current environment for how quickly a team of means can bounce back to elite levels.

[Sammy Sofa]

I keep thinking the Ricketts just have "TWO MORE YEARS" posted as a mantra all over their offices. Everything seems to either come to a head or end in two years, and I'll bet that's their time frame for letting things go to horsefeathers so they can save some bucks/move money around for their bull horsefeathers (especially since there's likely going to be an inevitable work stoppage in 2 years, too).

[Bertz]

They should absolutely not blow it up, but if they did I think they could probably clean the slate and fully stock the farm.

 

There's only 4 guys with guaranteed money beyond 2020:

 

- Heyward

- Darvish

- Kyle

- Kimbrel

 

Heyward's contract is way underwater, but now down to four years left he's probably dealable if you ate ~half. Kimbrel's contract looks bad right now, but I think the industry is willing to give him benefit of the doubt for last year. If he had a good first half he'd be valuable again by July. Darvish and Kyle have positive value (Darvish a little, Kyle a lot).

 

From there looking at trades, it would look a lot like when the White Sox blew it up. I would guess Javy would bring back something akin to the Quintana deal, and Bryant a little less than that. Willson and Rizzo would each net a top 100 guy plus another prospect or two of note, and Schwarber a couple guys in that "just missed" area.

 

All together that's probably a #1 farm and and basically clean books after 2020. That being said I still wouldn't do it. If Theo deals KB and Willson, the Cubs are probably the slight Central favorites in 2020 with a top ~10 farm and Heyward as the only really bad money on the books. A disappointing place to be, but still a pretty good one all things considered. Much better than signing up for 2-3 years of horsefeathers ball IMO.

[jersey cubs fan]

If Theo deals KB and Willson, the Cubs are probably the slight Central favorites in 2020 with a top ~10 farm

I highly doubt that.

 

The only way they stay favorites after trading those guys is if they get back quality major leaguers, and if they get back quality major leaguers they aren't getting the prospects necessary to vault into a top 10 system.

[Bertz]

If Theo deals KB and Willson, the Cubs are probably the slight Central favorites in 2020 with a top ~10 farm

I highly doubt that.

 

The only way they stay favorites after trading those guys is if they get back quality major leaguers, and if they get back quality major leaguers they aren't getting the prospects necessary to vault into a top 10 system.

 

I'd imagine to TT's point they get guys in the upper minors who can make some level of contribution this year. For example guys like Christian Pache from the Braves or Adrian Morejon from the Padres.

 

They've got a ~5 win projected head start on the division, which is basically what they're giving back in trading those two. As long as they don't just settle for a bunch of A ball kids, the 2020 bump from the new guys and reinvesting the ~20M saved from KB helps offset any remaining moves from the Reds and Cardinals.

[Sammy Sofa]

When even the THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO guy has turned on you, you know you've done fucked up.

[Gmoney23]

5 years of 94 win baseball, 4 years in the crapshoot and winning the crapshoot is a C+?

 

Im extemely happy with the last 5 years... where ill be pissed is if they cant resign most or the core after their rookie deals. The tank and the years of cost-controlled assets were supposedly savings designed to allow us to flex our muscle when it came time to pay these guys.

 

They've been in charge more than 5 years.

 

Their actual average is 84-win baseball. Which, given their financial advantages, I think a C+ is plenty generous.

 

So the Astros get a C+ this decade as well? Their losing was even more horrendous. I can take rebuids if they give 5 year stretches like the most recent, the problem is they should not need to rebuild this core already.

[jersey cubs fan]

5 years of 94 win baseball, 4 years in the crapshoot and winning the crapshoot is a C+?

 

Im extemely happy with the last 5 years... where ill be pissed is if they cant resign most or the core after their rookie deals. The tank and the years of cost-controlled assets were supposedly savings designed to allow us to flex our muscle when it came time to pay these guys.

 

They've been in charge more than 5 years.

 

Their actual average is 84-win baseball. Which, given their financial advantages, I think a C+ is plenty generous.

 

So the Astros get a C+ this decade as well? Their losing was even more horrendous. I can take rebuids if they give 5 year stretches like the most recent, the problem is they should not need to rebuild this core already.

just a reminder the Cubs are 817-803 under Ricketts. They cut costs and corners for 5 years to do a rebuild that resulted in 4 legitimately successful seasons. That's an unacceptable ratio, especially when you factor in their dominant financial stance in their division.

[Banedon]

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[jersey cubs fan]

can't tell if quote from winter meetings or a september road trip

[Backtobanks]

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And it took 25 people to accomplish nothing. Wait until PTR looks at the expense accounts for all of those people with no results.

[UK]

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And it took 25 people to accomplish nothing. Wait until PTR looks at the expense accounts for all of those people with no results.

 

https://customersupport.spirit.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002248271-Group-Travel

[Backtobanks]

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

And it took 25 people to accomplish nothing. Wait until PTR looks at the expense accounts for all of those people with no results.

 

https://customersupport.spirit.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002248271-Group-Travel

 

That's only for the flight. Wait until the booze bill comes.

[Gmoney23]

 

They've been in charge more than 5 years.

 

Their actual average is 84-win baseball. Which, given their financial advantages, I think a C+ is plenty generous.

 

So the Astros get a C+ this decade as well? Their losing was even more horrendous. I can take rebuids if they give 5 year stretches like the most recent, the problem is they should not need to rebuild this core already.

just a reminder the Cubs are 817-803 under Ricketts. They cut costs and corners for 5 years to do a rebuild that resulted in 4 legitimately successful seasons. That's an unacceptable ratio, especially when you factor in their dominant financial stance in their division.

 

I agree if its back to a rebuild that quickly. Im more pointiny to the Theo/Hoyer regime and I am quite fine with their approach ti the 2012-14 Cubs and how this core has done.

 

Back to a rebuild so quick without the core even getting out of their rookie contracta will be utter [expletive] though.

[Cubswin11]

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And it took 25 people to accomplish nothing. Wait until PTR looks at the expense accounts for all of those people with no results.

End of year is only weeks away, maybe projected profits were running a little hot and they wanted one final large expense to write off.