Bullpen Options

[davell]

Assuming its an oversight, since we've not signed a guy since Theo said we're still looking for at LEAST one more pen arm. But Rosenthal didn't mention us in his list of teams still shopping.

 

At any rate, I can see us trading for our other guy. If not, maybe we're holding off until we know for sure what Wade is doing?

 

Assuming we don't bring him back, I guess its one of Reed, Kintzler, or Cishek.

 

After that, I'd love to wait the market out and grab one of Jared Hughes, Sergio Romo, Xavier Cedeno, Zach Duke, Boone Logan, or Tony Watson(if he doesn't grab a 2 year deal).

[Cubswin11]

At this point if we are going more bargain hunting for that last starter and out on Cobb/Darvish I’d like us to go a 2 year deal with Wade at a high AAV with some sort of 3rd year option. I’d be kinda pissed with the offseason if we bargain hunt the last rotation spot and bullpen spot, the money is there. It should be used on at least one of those spots to solidify it. Edited December 13, 2017 by Cubswin11

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Assuming we don't bring him back, I guess its one of Reed, Kintzler, or Cishek.

 

After that, I'd love to wait the market out and grab one of Jared Hughes, Sergio Romo, Xavier Cedeno, Zach Duke, Boone Logan, or Tony Watson(if he doesn't grab a 2 year deal).

 

Save for Reed, if that's the list then they better be really sure that Wilson is coming back strong, Maples is gonna throw more strikes, or both. The pen needs another pillar.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Assuming its an oversight, since we've not signed a guy since Theo said we're still looking for at LEAST one more pen arm. But Rosenthal didn't mention us in his list of teams still shopping.

 

At any rate, I can see us trading for our other guy. If not, maybe we're holding off until we know for sure what Wade is doing?

 

Assuming we don't bring him back, I guess its one of Reed, Kintzler, or Cishek.

 

After that, I'd love to wait the market out and grab one of Jared Hughes, Sergio Romo, Xavier Cedeno, Zach Duke, Boone Logan, or Tony Watson(if he doesn't grab a 2 year deal).

 

Could he have been referring to Smyly?

[Cubswin11]

Rockies trying to build a super bullpen it appears. Seems smart in their environment since it’s nearly impossible to have starters be reliable there.

 

[davell]

Assuming its an oversight, since we've not signed a guy since Theo said we're still looking for at LEAST one more pen arm. But Rosenthal didn't mention us in his list of teams still shopping.

 

At any rate, I can see us trading for our other guy. If not, maybe we're holding off until we know for sure what Wade is doing?

 

Assuming we don't bring him back, I guess its one of Reed, Kintzler, or Cishek.

 

After that, I'd love to wait the market out and grab one of Jared Hughes, Sergio Romo, Xavier Cedeno, Zach Duke, Boone Logan, or Tony Watson(if he doesn't grab a 2 year deal).

 

Could he have been referring to Smyly?

 

Surely not, right? Especially since they said if he gives you anything in 2018, its gravy.

 

I know I'd be disappointed, if our entire bullpen off season, was swap Davis for Morrow, and let Rondon walk, with a bunch of flyers like Alvarez added.

[Bertz]

Assuming its an oversight, since we've not signed a guy since Theo said we're still looking for at LEAST one more pen arm. But Rosenthal didn't mention us in his list of teams still shopping.

 

At any rate, I can see us trading for our other guy. If not, maybe we're holding off until we know for sure what Wade is doing?

 

Assuming we don't bring him back, I guess its one of Reed, Kintzler, or Cishek.

 

After that, I'd love to wait the market out and grab one of Jared Hughes, Sergio Romo, Xavier Cedeno, Zach Duke, Boone Logan, or Tony Watson(if he doesn't grab a 2 year deal).

 

I would guess we shop in the tier above him, but Tony Watson is a guy that Statcast thought was pretty great last year but he got middling results. If we end up going for two relievers instead of just one, I'd love for him to be the second.

[Post Count Padder]

Well that would be one less suitor for Reed and Davis.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

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[Cubswin11]

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Do it, Theo. 2/35 with a vesting/club option for like $18 mil and $5 mil buyout.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I hadn't given Davis any thought really, but the circumstances make sense. His injury history and age make him a poor candidate for a 4+ year deal, and on a 3 year deal teams start to prefer other options really quickly when you add in the cost of the QO pick, which the Cubs don't have to bear. Him falling to the Cubs for like 3/45 would be very nice.

[CyHawk_Cub]

I'm a little worried that Davis is gonna break soon.

 

Really bummed McGee went back to CO & it appears Nicasio isn't an option.

[Cubswin11]

I'm a little worried that Davis is gonna break soon.

 

Really bummed McGee went back to CO & it appears Nicasio isn't an option.

Even if he does if you get him for 3 years guaranteed at most and the aav is in the mid-high teens it’s not going to kill us. The upside of a super horsefeathers you bullpen is worth the risk to me.

[champaignchris]

I'd take Davis back for fewer years and less money than Melancon's 4 for $60M-ish.

 

Is he a risk? Yeah. But the Cubs have better depth around him this year if Wilson is even a fraction of his former self.

[Post Count Padder]

Really want Davis back now. If he'd take a Morrow type deal but for more money, I'd jump on it.

[CyHawk_Cub]

Davis also wasn't very good in the 2nd half last year. It sure seemed like his stuff was diminishing before our eyes. Then he came through bigly in the NLDS so :dontknow: All in all, if he can be had for something like 2 years & a vesting option, I'd be down w/ no complaints.

[Cubswin11]

They were probably a pseudo Davis suitor if the Cardinals go the Colome route he doesn’t have much of a market

 

[cubsclapp]

it's gonna be kintzler for us isn't it?

I horsefeathering hope not

 

100% agree. but it's starting to feel that way.

 

I'm confused by all the hate for Kintzler. Is everyone that obsessed with the K rate? He's been a groundball machine his entire career, rarely walks guys, and doesn't allow many dongs. He's a FIP beater and his consistent low 3s ERA isn't fluky. We're talking about a 306 2/3-inning sample of him putting together a 3.26 ERA out of the bullpen.

 

And his game would work better than literally everywhere else with the Cubs' elite groundball defense, and the bullpen is already full of power arms that miss bats. More than anything they could use a guy that doesn't issue walks, while also having a great track record of run prevention.

 

There are a few guys I'd still rather have, but Kintzler would be a really solid addition to the bullpen.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I horsefeathering hope not

 

100% agree. but it's starting to feel that way.

 

I'm confused by all the hate for Kintzler. Is everyone that obsessed with the K rate? He's been a groundball machine his entire career, rarely walks guys, and doesn't allow many dongs. He's a FIP beater and his consistent low 3s ERA isn't fluky. We're talking about a 306 2/3-inning sample of him putting together a 3.26 ERA out of the bullpen.

 

And his game would work better than literally everywhere else with the Cubs' elite groundball defense, and the bullpen is already full of power arms that miss bats. More than anything they could use a guy that doesn't issue walks, while also having a great track record of run prevention.

 

There are a few guys I'd still rather have, but Kintzler would be a really solid addition to the bullpen.

 

I think there's room to not think of K's as the end-all-be-all, and still be pretty concerned about Kintzler not striking anyone out. Out of 109 qualified relievers the last 2 years, he's 108th in K%. He'll need a multi-year deal and he's 33 now. That profile can go quickly, and if they continue to play with the DefinitelyNotJuicedBall, it adds even more risk.

[Tim]

I horsefeathering hope not

 

100% agree. but it's starting to feel that way.

 

I'm confused by all the hate for Kintzler. Is everyone that obsessed with the K rate? He's been a groundball machine his entire career, rarely walks guys, and doesn't allow many dongs. He's a FIP beater and his consistent low 3s ERA isn't fluky. We're talking about a 306 2/3-inning sample of him putting together a 3.26 ERA out of the bullpen.

 

And his game would work better than literally everywhere else with the Cubs' elite groundball defense, and the bullpen is already full of power arms that miss bats. More than anything they could use a guy that doesn't issue walks, while also having a great track record of run prevention.

 

There are a few guys I'd still rather have, but Kintzler would be a really solid addition to the bullpen.

For a closer, I want elite performance, not good performance. I'd be happy to have him in a middle relief role, just not the highest leverage innings.

[cubsclapp]

 

100% agree. but it's starting to feel that way.

 

I'm confused by all the hate for Kintzler. Is everyone that obsessed with the K rate? He's been a groundball machine his entire career, rarely walks guys, and doesn't allow many dongs. He's a FIP beater and his consistent low 3s ERA isn't fluky. We're talking about a 306 2/3-inning sample of him putting together a 3.26 ERA out of the bullpen.

 

And his game would work better than literally everywhere else with the Cubs' elite groundball defense, and the bullpen is already full of power arms that miss bats. More than anything they could use a guy that doesn't issue walks, while also having a great track record of run prevention.

 

There are a few guys I'd still rather have, but Kintzler would be a really solid addition to the bullpen.

For a closer, I want elite performance, not good performance. I'd be happy to have him in a middle relief role, just not the highest leverage innings.

 

Oh, I wouldn't at all want him closing, but he's plenty fine as another guy in the mix. Morrow would almost surely get the nod over him at least. And Wilson if he hasn't turned into Rick Ankiel.

[cubsclapp]

 

100% agree. but it's starting to feel that way.

 

I'm confused by all the hate for Kintzler. Is everyone that obsessed with the K rate? He's been a groundball machine his entire career, rarely walks guys, and doesn't allow many dongs. He's a FIP beater and his consistent low 3s ERA isn't fluky. We're talking about a 306 2/3-inning sample of him putting together a 3.26 ERA out of the bullpen.

 

And his game would work better than literally everywhere else with the Cubs' elite groundball defense, and the bullpen is already full of power arms that miss bats. More than anything they could use a guy that doesn't issue walks, while also having a great track record of run prevention.

 

There are a few guys I'd still rather have, but Kintzler would be a really solid addition to the bullpen.

 

I think there's room to not think of K's as the end-all-be-all, and still be pretty concerned about Kintzler not striking anyone out. Out of 109 qualified relievers the last 2 years, he's 108th in K%. He'll need a multi-year deal and he's 33 now. That profile can go quickly, and if they continue to play with the DefinitelyNotJuicedBall, it adds even more risk.

 

His velocity last year was as good as it's ever been across the board and he allowed just 5 homers in 71 1/3 innings with the juiced ball. He's 33 and he could absolutely see the results fade quickly, but it's a risk I'd be fine taking on say a 2-year deal, $12-16 million deal (and ideally just a 1-year deal, of course).

[Tim]

 

I'm confused by all the hate for Kintzler. Is everyone that obsessed with the K rate? He's been a groundball machine his entire career, rarely walks guys, and doesn't allow many dongs. He's a FIP beater and his consistent low 3s ERA isn't fluky. We're talking about a 306 2/3-inning sample of him putting together a 3.26 ERA out of the bullpen.

 

And his game would work better than literally everywhere else with the Cubs' elite groundball defense, and the bullpen is already full of power arms that miss bats. More than anything they could use a guy that doesn't issue walks, while also having a great track record of run prevention.

 

There are a few guys I'd still rather have, but Kintzler would be a really solid addition to the bullpen.

 

I think there's room to not think of K's as the end-all-be-all, and still be pretty concerned about Kintzler not striking anyone out. Out of 109 qualified relievers the last 2 years, he's 108th in K%. He'll need a multi-year deal and he's 33 now. That profile can go quickly, and if they continue to play with the DefinitelyNotJuicedBall, it adds even more risk.

 

His velocity last year was as good as it's ever been across the board and he allowed just 5 homers in 71 1/3 innings with the juiced ball. He's 33 and he could absolutely see the results fade quickly, but it's a risk I'd be fine taking on say a 2-year deal, $12-16 million deal (and ideally just a 1-year deal, of course).

If he doesn't have a Proven Closer uplift on his price, I wouldn't mind him as a #3 pen acquisition at all.

[CubsWin]

 

I'm confused by all the hate for Kintzler. Is everyone that obsessed with the K rate? He's been a groundball machine his entire career, rarely walks guys, and doesn't allow many dongs. He's a FIP beater and his consistent low 3s ERA isn't fluky. We're talking about a 306 2/3-inning sample of him putting together a 3.26 ERA out of the bullpen.

 

And his game would work better than literally everywhere else with the Cubs' elite groundball defense, and the bullpen is already full of power arms that miss bats. More than anything they could use a guy that doesn't issue walks, while also having a great track record of run prevention.

 

There are a few guys I'd still rather have, but Kintzler would be a really solid addition to the bullpen.

For a closer, I want elite performance, not good performance. I'd be happy to have him in a middle relief role, just not the highest leverage innings.

 

Oh, I wouldn't at all want him closing, but he's plenty fine as another guy in the mix. Morrow would almost surely get the nod over him at least. And Wilson if he hasn't turned into Rick Ankiel.

Every good bullpen needs a guy who can induce a double play. And, as you wrote, he'd play up with the Cubs elite infield defense behind him.

 

Theo and Jed have gone out and got ground ball inducers before to varying degrees of success. Kintzler's track record is better than all those guys. I agree he'd be a good guy to have come out of the pen. I think the pushback was in the idea that if the Cubs signed him it would mean they'd be out on someone like Davis, Holland or Reed. So long as that's not the case, I don't think anyone wouldn't want to have him.

[CubsWin]

 

I think there's room to not think of K's as the end-all-be-all, and still be pretty concerned about Kintzler not striking anyone out. Out of 109 qualified relievers the last 2 years, he's 108th in K%. He'll need a multi-year deal and he's 33 now. That profile can go quickly, and if they continue to play with the DefinitelyNotJuicedBall, it adds even more risk.

 

His velocity last year was as good as it's ever been across the board and he allowed just 5 homers in 71 1/3 innings with the juiced ball. He's 33 and he could absolutely see the results fade quickly, but it's a risk I'd be fine taking on say a 2-year deal, $12-16 million deal (and ideally just a 1-year deal, of course).

If he doesn't have a Proven Closer uplift on his price, I wouldn't mind him as a #3 pen acquisition at all.

My dream scenario for pen acquisitions was Morrow, McGee and Nicasio. Two strikes and one home run there. If it's Morrow, Kintzler and someone like Davis, Reed, Holland, Britton, etc., I'd be happy with that FA haul.

 

I have my doubts that'll happen though.