Eddie Butler Starting Friday

[David]

Surprised it hadn't been mentioned yet

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Arrieta 2 time. Plz strike out some more dudes while you're at it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

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[17 Seconds]

hopefully this isn't "we got cute with it" part 2

[CaliforniaRaisin]

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Agreed. Would love to be wrong but I much prefer Montgomery starting.

[davell]

I'm intrigued. I think Monty would be serviceable. The FO must think pretty highly of Butler to give him a start under these conditions.

[Gilby]

He has 52 strikeouts in his last 119 innings in AAA. It's not like his GB rate is that high this year either. I just don't see a scenario where he's an above average major league starter. I'd be interested to see him out of the pen probably, but this move doesn't excite me a whole lot. I'm definitely team Montgomery for the 5th spot.

[We Got The Whole 9]

I like Montgomery in the role that he's in. His walk rate is a huge concern for a SP. I feel like he's great to go out there and run through a lineup once but you may not want to expose him much more than that. Not saying Butler has a better chance to thrive in the rotation but I think he controls his pitches more consistently at least.

 

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[Transmogrified Tiger]

I like Montgomery in the role that he's in. His walk rate is a huge concern for a SP. I feel like he's great to go out there and run through a lineup once but you may not want to expose him much more than that. Not saying Butler has a better chance to thrive in the rotation but I think he controls his pitches more consistently at least.

 

Hitters had an .890 OPS against Butler the *first* time through the order last year, he walked a couple fewer guys but it's also harder to walk guys when all hitters are hitting .328 (!) against you.

 

The point here is not that Butler is terrible, I think he's potentially a very nice find. The point is that in all of these cases you're looking for improvement beyond what they've done thus far. Butler has gotten shelled in MLB and been effective with weak peripherals in AAA. Montgomery has been effective with weak peripherals in MLB. If you start Montgomery you can keep Butler in AAA and have both being treated as SP for potential future seasons. If Montgomery struggles you can always turn to Butler too. But by starting Butler you're continuing to inch the door shut on Montgomery starting, because in the next few weeks he's not going to be capable of throwing enough IP to be considered for the 2018 rotation.

 

It continues to mystify me that the front office talked up Montgomery as a future starter for the entire 2nd half of the season, Maddon trusted him in the playoffs more than Rondon and Strop, and now they won't let him have a role beyond next-gen Travis Wood even though there is ample opportunity. I have extremely high regard for their evaluations of pitchers, but in this case I have a hard time understanding why they aren't giving Montgomery at least the briefest of opportunities to fail out of that role. Butler just got off the DL for an ankle injury too and hasn't been lighting AAA on fire, so it'd be trivially easy to justify.

[mikeyt34]

I think Maddon and the FO like Monty's arm out of the bullpen for right now. Probably not fair to Monty who I assume would like to start, but he's their only truly reliable LHP other than Koji's splits to LH'ers. If Monty moves to the rotation it would leave just Duensing.

[weis21]

this may be a dumb thought, but maybe they are actually only thinking about giving butler one (maybe two?) starts at the MLB level to just see how he fares. If he's completely lights out awesome then, yeah, keep him there. but if he's merely pretty good (or obviously worse) then you turn to Monty. I'm basically with TT (because, as a rule of thumb that's always the smart money move) but I could see them maybe wanted to just get a glimpse of how he handles himself back in the big show and then re-evaluate and possibly send him back down.

[biittner77]

A game or 2 in May isn't going to make or break the season. Though I'm not sure what it can really tell them about Butler, except that he is terrible and they need not waste anymore thought on him.

[Post Count Padder]

I would really rather them give it to Monty, but at least Butler is a candidate for starts down the stretch and next season. The reports have generally been positive on him this season, no? I'd be annoyed if the start was given to some AAAA scrub.

[We Got The Whole 9]

I like Montgomery in the role that he's in. His walk rate is a huge concern for a SP. I feel like he's great to go out there and run through a lineup once but you may not want to expose him much more than that. Not saying Butler has a better chance to thrive in the rotation but I think he controls his pitches more consistently at least.

 

Hitters had an .890 OPS against Butler the *first* time through the order last year, he walked a couple fewer guys but it's also harder to walk guys when all hitters are hitting .328 (!) against you.

 

The point here is not that Butler is terrible, I think he's potentially a very nice find. The point is that in all of these cases you're looking for improvement beyond what they've done thus far. Butler has gotten shelled in MLB and been effective with weak peripherals in AAA. Montgomery has been effective with weak peripherals in MLB. If you start Montgomery you can keep Butler in AAA and have both being treated as SP for potential future seasons. If Montgomery struggles you can always turn to Butler too. But by starting Butler you're continuing to inch the door shut on Montgomery starting, because in the next few weeks he's not going to be capable of throwing enough IP to be considered for the 2018 rotation.

 

It continues to mystify me that the front office talked up Montgomery as a future starter for the entire 2nd half of the season, Maddon trusted him in the playoffs more than Rondon and Strop, and now they won't let him have a role beyond next-gen Travis Wood even though there is ample opportunity. I have extremely high regard for their evaluations of pitchers, but in this case I have a hard time understanding why they aren't giving Montgomery at least the briefest of opportunities to fail out of that role. Butler just got off the DL for an ankle injury too and hasn't been lighting AAA on fire, so it'd be trivially easy to justify.

 

Well, Monty's role is becoming one of the biggest x-factors a pitching staff can have these days. I get where you're coming from, I also want Monty to get a shot at the rotation, and coming into this year, I had him locked in for 2018. But that role, that bridge guy who can save the pen after a SP gets shelled or pushed out early, and pitch multiple innings, is really invaluable. Especially right now as half of our rotation is shaky and nobody is pitching deep into games, they feel like they're gonna need that bridge guy probably often. So they don't want to lose that weapon.

 

But honestly I think with those 2 as SP you can expect probably similar results, with maybe a slight lean in Monty's favor. Something like a 1.5 KBB and 5 innings at best of hopefully decently suppressed contact and likely a couple runs. So I think they figure they'd rather get that and still have their multi-inning guy who they can count on and have needed quite often in the early going.

 

But I agree and want Monty to get his rotation shot. Maybe as the 1-4 settle in and hopefully start going deeper into games, we won't have such a dire need for that bridge role and can afford to take that chance. For now they probably prefer stopgaps for the 5th spot.

 

 

 

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[CaliforniaRaisin]

I think Maddon and the FO like Monty's arm out of the bullpen for right now. Probably not fair to Monty who I assume would like to start, but he's their only truly reliable LHP other than Koji's splits to LH'ers. If Monty moves to the rotation it would leave just Duensing.

 

This would be very shortsighted on my Maddon's part.

[mikeyt34]

I think Maddon and the FO like Monty's arm out of the bullpen for right now. Probably not fair to Monty who I assume would like to start, but he's their only truly reliable LHP other than Koji's splits to LH'ers. If Monty moves to the rotation it would leave just Duensing.

 

This would be very shortsighted on my Maddon's part.

 

Depends on how Butler performs I suppose. If he does well, great, if he doesn't then go to Monty. Seeing what you've got with Butler in a mid-May game isn't that big a reach from the FO or Maddon IMO.

[cubsclapp]

I'm intrigued. I think Monty would be serviceable. The FO must think pretty highly of Butler to give him a start under these conditions.

 

I think it's also to just see if he's a real option sooner than later. They know what Montgomery is and that he can be a fine option for sure. But they'd probably rather have similar production from the No. 5 while also allowing Montgomery to stay in his reliever role as well.

 

So, see if Butler can be about as good as they'd expect from Montgomery, and if he's not, you either just finally go to Montgomery or make a trade.

[David]

i feel like maybe we should just trust the dudes running this org

[Derwood]

i feel like maybe we should just trust the dudes running this org

 

Except when they sign Brett Anderson

[LeonDurham]

i feel like maybe we should just trust the dudes running this org

 

 

Good one guys. I knew Eddie would shut down these chumps.

[davell]

He was amped up, hitting 97 was unexpected. Damn, I wasn't expecting that kind of movement out of him. He looked really good. Granted, I doubt the Cards had scouted him much this year and had no clue he'd be starting this game, when he pitched his come back start for Iowa. But still, I'm pretty perplexed his K rate has been this low. Unless he was just trying to induce weak contact and running it in on guys.

 

At any rate, there's plenty to work with here. Hell of a trade.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

hopefully he improves the control a bit and gives another start good enough to drop Anderson back into the sewer

[Aaron_Kennelly]

So, without seeing anything yet, from what I've read he looked good. His velo was way up. He throws changeups and sliders harder than our other starters throw fastballs.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

I'm just going to put it out there: Eddie Butler for NLDS Game 1 starter.

[biittner77]

Butler seems ok so far.

[UMFan83]

Butler seems ok so far.

 

9/10 K/BB rate is pretty damn questionable in terms of long term success. Also, I didn't watch the game yesterday but from following the game thread and twitter it sounds like he had a lot of BABIP luck in the game.

 

I mean he's a 5th starter so the results he has gotten are more than fine in his role, but I'm guessing that he is getting a bit fortunate right now.