Bears offseason

[Sosa21MVP]

The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.

 

Amazing

 

#-o

[Banedon]

The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.

 

 

 

 

Amazing

 

Jerry Angelo looks like a genius nowadays.

[WrigleyField 22]

The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.

 

 

 

 

Amazing

 

Jerry Angelo looks like a genius nowadays.

:?

 

Even against the comparison of 9-23, I'll hold off the genius talk. That said, he understood the importance of impact players and he actually closed on getting some.

[jersey cubs fan]

We are in a really weird spot, with Pace and Fox. I'm starting to think they're truly tied together. Both signed 4 year deals. So, what happens if we go 5-11? Does Pace get to hire another coach? Or is he stuck with Fox? Because, if we keep Fox in place, it allows for both to be fired simultaneously.

 

I really just feel like the Bears are trying to copy the Cubs.

 

Pace has been so deliberate with his rebuild that he has to have some reassurance from ownership that it's fine to take his time. The McCaskeys aren't really risking a financial hit by not being good. Their profits are essentially guaranteed with the league shared television revenue. The season tickets are sold and they don't have any reliance on walk up sales or ratings. The McCaskeys see that the Ricketts took a minimal PR hit as the team stumbled for years while rebuilding. They view themselves in the same mold as the Tisch/Mara/Rooney blue blood ownership of the Giants and Steelers and the thing that ties them together (besides mating) is longterm stability in the front office and head coach. With that they also want to be the opposite of the "new money" types like Haslam and Snyder who they probably view as making a mockery of storied franchises with their constant turmoil.

 

They probably think Pace is their Theo and will give him as long as possible before moving on and will probably give him every opportunity to either win with Fox, or select his new head coach like Theo got to take a run at Madden after the Sveum/Renteria years.

 

If year 3 is a 5-11 year, obviously Pace is doing a horrible job, consider the vast differences between MLB talent procurement and timing and the NFL's draft and play right away situation. But my guess is nobody in the McCaskey family cares.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

http://i.imgur.com/8FewPU3.jpg

[davell]

We are in a really weird spot, with Pace and Fox. I'm starting to think they're truly tied together. Both signed 4 year deals. So, what happens if we go 5-11? Does Pace get to hire another coach? Or is he stuck with Fox? Because, if we keep Fox in place, it allows for both to be fired simultaneously.

 

I really just feel like the Bears are trying to copy the Cubs.

 

Pace has been so deliberate with his rebuild that he has to have some reassurance from ownership that it's fine to take his time. The McCaskeys aren't really risking a financial hit by not being good. Their profits are essentially guaranteed with the league shared television revenue. The season tickets are sold and they don't have any reliance on walk up sales or ratings. The McCaskeys see that the Ricketts took a minimal PR hit as the team stumbled for years while rebuilding. They view themselves in the same mold as the Tisch/Mara/Rooney blue blood ownership of the Giants and Steelers and the thing that ties them together (besides mating) is longterm stability in the front office and head coach. With that they also want to be the opposite of the "new money" types like Haslam and Snyder who they probably view as making a mockery of storied franchises with their constant turmoil.

 

They probably think Pace is their Theo and will give him as long as possible before moving on and will probably give him every opportunity to either win with Fox, or select his new head coach like Theo got to take a run at Madden after the Sveum/Renteria years.

 

If year 3 is a 5-11 year, obviously Pace is doing a horrible job, consider the vast differences between MLB talent procurement and timing and the NFL's draft and play right away situation. But my guess is nobody in the McCaskey family cares.

 

Pace isn't Theo(no one is) and this wasn't necessary to do. But now that it IS being done, I THINK I want to see it thru. If 5-11 happens, my mind probably changes.

 

I don't hate Pace yet. But, I'm far from convinced he's got answers either. Which is an indictment, I suppose. Because we SHOULD be seeing more than what we've gotten to this point.

 

This draft is insanely important. And if its not a home run, my fear is Pace overcompensates next year in FA and sets us back to square one for the next guy.

[raw]

We are in a really weird spot, with Pace and Fox. I'm starting to think they're truly tied together. Both signed 4 year deals. So, what happens if we go 5-11? Does Pace get to hire another coach? Or is he stuck with Fox? Because, if we keep Fox in place, it allows for both to be fired simultaneously.

 

I really just feel like the Bears are trying to copy the Cubs.

 

Pace has been so deliberate with his rebuild that he has to have some reassurance from ownership that it's fine to take his time. The McCaskeys aren't really risking a financial hit by not being good. Their profits are essentially guaranteed with the league shared television revenue. The season tickets are sold and they don't have any reliance on walk up sales or ratings. The McCaskeys see that the Ricketts took a minimal PR hit as the team stumbled for years while rebuilding. They view themselves in the same mold as the Tisch/Mara/Rooney blue blood ownership of the Giants and Steelers and the thing that ties them together (besides mating) is longterm stability in the front office and head coach. With that they also want to be the opposite of the "new money" types like Haslam and Snyder who they probably view as making a mockery of storied franchises with their constant turmoil.

 

They probably think Pace is their Theo and will give him as long as possible before moving on and will probably give him every opportunity to either win with Fox, or select his new head coach like Theo got to take a run at Madden after the Sveum/Renteria years.

 

If year 3 is a 5-11 year, obviously Pace is doing a horrible job, consider the vast differences between MLB talent procurement and timing and the NFL's draft and play right away situation. But my guess is nobody in the McCaskey family cares.

 

I've heard rumors that Fox has been basically guaranteed a 4th year. Which actually makes some amount of sense because you're likely going to draft a QB and don't want him switching staffs after his 1st year. Which obviously would mean Pace is guaranteed at least a 4th year.

 

I don't want to be one of those teams that fires coaches and GMs after just 2-3 years, but I more don't want this. They had stagnation for years. Now it's utter failure. They were a 6-7 win team on paper last year that won 3. I agree this team has 5-11 written all over it on paper for 2017. Any underachievement and I don't see how you can justify keeping a HC after consecutive 12+ loss seasons. MAYBE Pace's job is safe if he pulls a few more promising players out of this draft, with 1 being a QB. But results need to start happening.

[davell]

I think from a job security standpoint, Pace is better served putting off QB another year.

[WrigleyField 22]

If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.

[jersey cubs fan]

If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.

I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.

[raw]

We are in a really weird spot, with Pace and Fox. I'm starting to think they're truly tied together. Both signed 4 year deals. So, what happens if we go 5-11? Does Pace get to hire another coach? Or is he stuck with Fox? Because, if we keep Fox in place, it allows for both to be fired simultaneously.

 

I'm bringing it up because if we DO go 5-11 and fire Fox.....It puts a new head coaching hire on Pace, who'd be entering the last year of his deal. And if he doesn't show serious progress himself by year 4, he's likely gone too. And then you've got another coaching change on the horizon, so the new GM can get his guy.

 

So, do you extend Pace, even in a 5-11 year and let him hire a second coach?

 

If you do, then that guy gets his own QB too most likely.

 

I think a lot of this will play itself out, with how we address QB in the draft, personally.

 

1) In order to placate Fox(and attempt to win), I doubt our 1st is a QB. If it is, I honestly don't know if that means Pace is safe or in trouble. Hell, if I'm him and trying to save my job, I'd probably hold off on the 1st round QB, because its a known entity long before his contract is up.

 

2) But, if our 2nd or 3rd is a QB.....I'd say Pace is on the hotseat and needs to show that Glennon OR that 2/3rd round guy IS the QB of the future, to help preserve his own job.

 

3) If the QB drafted is a Dobbs, Rush, Kelly, Knight type, then my guess is Pace knows Fox is gone after 2017 and is safe himself, with his new hire getting to use a top pick on a QB.

 

Interesting way to look at it (re: #3). I think a couple things could save Pace.

 

1. Fox is old. He's young. Can save a lot of face by having Fox "retire" after the season. Then can put a lot of blame on the pressure to get a veteran QB in Fox's last year(s).

 

2. He could have a 3rd decent draft, while not having much to show for it record-wise. If Pace can go into the offseason boasting Goldman, Floyd, Whitehair, a potential future QB and 2 other promising players from the 2017 draft, and then get something out of White and maybe Hall shows some more promise....he could have an argument to keep his job.

[davell]

If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.

I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.

 

He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.

[jersey cubs fan]

If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.

I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.

 

He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Pace tried to field an 8 or 9 win team while building for more and failed miserably.

 

And remember, his resume is built on pro scouting (free agency), not college scouting and drafts.

[davell]

The closer to the draft we get, the more these QB's stock appears to be moving upward. Smoke or real? I guess we'll find out soon enough, but there was even a rumor Webb could go late 1st yesterday....

 

Now, that's probably BS.....But, the good news is that it maybe puts a trade down more into play. I'd feel much better about a QB in the 1st, if we added a 2nd or something to go with him.

 

Especially since I legitimately don't have a feel yet for the order of how the QB's get drafted this year.

[WrigleyField 22]

If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.

I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.

 

He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.

I can excuse the first two years to a large extent. 2015 was a legitimate reset year from the turmoil of 2014, and they still managed to improve by a game. Last year sucked, but maybe was kinda fluky with injuries and just the wring side of close games (PFR put their estimate at 4.8-11.2). 2017 he doesn't get to claim improvement from a 3-13 team though. He has to make the entire case for those three years, and basically pick up from where they should have been.

 

Hard to imagine a scenario where he has another draft like last year and they aren't a .500 team. I guess they have a tough schedule...?

 

You could probably make a pretty simple grading scale for Pace solely based on record;

12 A

11 A-

10 B

9 B-

8 C

7 C-

6 D

5 F

[davell]

I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.

 

He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Pace tried to field an 8 or 9 win team while building for more and failed miserably.

 

And remember, his resume is built on pro scouting (free agency), not college scouting and drafts.

 

horsefeathers, you're talking me into wanting him gone now.

[Omar]

The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.

 

 

 

 

Amazing

 

I keep telling myself: Not all Chicago teams can be great at the same time.

 

2/4 ain't bad.

[UMFan83]

The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.

 

 

 

 

Amazing

 

I keep telling myself: Not all Chicago teams can be great at the same time.

 

2/4 ain't bad.

 

Dammit I want a Boston where all teams have won a title in the last decade and are consistently in the playoffs 80% of each team's seasons.

[raw]

The closer to the draft we get, the more these QB's stock appears to be moving upward. Smoke or real? I guess we'll find out soon enough, but there was even a rumor Webb could go late 1st yesterday....

 

Now, that's probably BS.....But, the good news is that it maybe puts a trade down more into play. I'd feel much better about a QB in the 1st, if we added a 2nd or something to go with him.

 

Especially since I legitimately don't have a feel yet for the order of how the QB's get drafted this year.

 

I don't understand why this keeps being a point of emphasis for you guys. It makes no sense to me.

 

You don't like the QB class, but you acknowledge the need to take one. But you are advocating taking what would likely be the 3rd or 4th QB off the board w/ a trade down or waiting a round? That makes no sense. If you can't separate the QBs enough to figure out which one is the best, you don't just take whatever one is left when other teams pick their guy. You actually have to figure out which one is the best and take him. That's how you end up with Rex Grossman and Cade McNown.

[JonJayCutler]

As a Magic fan I feel like Pace and Rob Hennigan are related. They look kinda similar and are both terrible at what they do, although the former still has a ways to go to catch up with the latter.

[minnesotacubsfan]

The closer to the draft we get, the more these QB's stock appears to be moving upward. Smoke or real? I guess we'll find out soon enough, but there was even a rumor Webb could go late 1st yesterday....

 

Now, that's probably BS.....But, the good news is that it maybe puts a trade down more into play. I'd feel much better about a QB in the 1st, if we added a 2nd or something to go with him.

 

Especially since I legitimately don't have a feel yet for the order of how the QB's get drafted this year.

 

I don't understand why this keeps being a point of emphasis for you guys. It makes no sense to me.

 

You don't like the QB class, but you acknowledge the need to take one. But you are advocating taking what would likely be the 3rd or 4th QB off the board w/ a trade down or waiting a round? That makes no sense. If you can't separate the QBs enough to figure out which one is the best, you don't just take whatever one is left when other teams pick their guy. You actually have to figure out which one is the best and take him. That's how you end up with Rex Grossman and Cade McNown.

 

I'm with you. Take your top guy at #3 or wait to see who's left in Rd 2-3. To me, trading down only makes sense if there is an impact player outside of QB you want later in the first, but you could just as easily scratch that itch at #3

[David]

 

He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Pace tried to field an 8 or 9 win team while building for more and failed miserably.

 

And remember, his resume is built on pro scouting (free agency), not college scouting and drafts.

 

horsefeathers, you're talking me into wanting him gone now.

I mean, drafting hasn't exactly been a weak point so far.

 

One very good draft and one ehh one before he got his own guys on staff.

[davell]

The closer to the draft we get, the more these QB's stock appears to be moving upward. Smoke or real? I guess we'll find out soon enough, but there was even a rumor Webb could go late 1st yesterday....

 

Now, that's probably BS.....But, the good news is that it maybe puts a trade down more into play. I'd feel much better about a QB in the 1st, if we added a 2nd or something to go with him.

 

Especially since I legitimately don't have a feel yet for the order of how the QB's get drafted this year.

 

I don't understand why this keeps being a point of emphasis for you guys. It makes no sense to me.

 

You don't like the QB class, but you acknowledge the need to take one. But you are advocating taking what would likely be the 3rd or 4th QB off the board w/ a trade down or waiting a round? That makes no sense. If you can't separate the QBs enough to figure out which one is the best, you don't just take whatever one is left when other teams pick their guy. You actually have to figure out which one is the best and take him. That's how you end up with Rex Grossman and Cade McNown.

 

Actually, I'm perfectly fine taking one in 4-7. And its entirely possible that we either 1) value them all closely or 2) don't like any of them.

 

If you value them all closely and think you are forced to take one early this year, adding another potential impact player with a second round pick IS worth a lot, especially when its not even definite that the guy you have ranked 1st will even be off the board when you pick.

 

You sound like Kyle back when he was disappointed we didn't give Schwarber full slot value in the draft. Sometimes you can get your guy AND get more with it too.

 

Plus, a trade down doesn't even guarantee that a QB is off the board yet. And anyway, if San Fran takes a QB at 2, then YOU may not be getting your top guy even if you stay at 3. You still taking a QB then, with your thoughts?

 

I hope we wait until 2018.

[raw]

The closer to the draft we get, the more these QB's stock appears to be moving upward. Smoke or real? I guess we'll find out soon enough, but there was even a rumor Webb could go late 1st yesterday....

 

Now, that's probably BS.....But, the good news is that it maybe puts a trade down more into play. I'd feel much better about a QB in the 1st, if we added a 2nd or something to go with him.

 

Especially since I legitimately don't have a feel yet for the order of how the QB's get drafted this year.

 

I don't understand why this keeps being a point of emphasis for you guys. It makes no sense to me.

 

You don't like the QB class, but you acknowledge the need to take one. But you are advocating taking what would likely be the 3rd or 4th QB off the board w/ a trade down or waiting a round? That makes no sense. If you can't separate the QBs enough to figure out which one is the best, you don't just take whatever one is left when other teams pick their guy. You actually have to figure out which one is the best and take him. That's how you end up with Rex Grossman and Cade McNown.

 

Actually, I'm perfectly fine taking one in 4-7. And its entirely possible that we either 1) value them all closely or 2) don't like any of them.

 

If you value them all closely and think you are forced to take one early this year, adding another potential impact player with a second round pick IS worth a lot, especially when its not even definite that the guy you have ranked 1st will even be off the board when you pick.

 

You sound like Kyle back when he was disappointed we didn't give Schwarber full slot value in the draft. Sometimes you can get your guy AND get more with it too.

 

Plus, a trade down doesn't even guarantee that a QB is off the board yet. And anyway, if San Fran takes a QB at 2, then YOU may not be getting your top guy even if you stay at 3. You still taking a QB then, with your thoughts?

 

I hope we wait until 2018.

 

Saying "they're all close together" is a cop out. They won't end up close in the NFL, unless they are all bad. But history shows that doesn't happen very much. At least one of these guys is going to be a solid QB. If the Bears pick the 3rd or 4th QB because "they were all closely ranked" and he sucks..... that will be of 0 consolation. They are not going to be close to equal in the end. At least one will be clearly better. The Bears have to find that one. The best way to find that one is to take that one, not take the one teams give them by default.

 

The problem with waiting til 2018 is you don't even know what the 2018 class will look like. Rosen, Darnold, Allen and Jackson could all stay in school, since none are seniors. And obviously, injury and regression could come into play. Then you've made yourself potentially desperate again at the position for a class led by Luke Falk. Oh and you probably get a little luckier with health and progression this year to just win enough have to put you out of reach of the top QBs. So you're back with the issue of getting your choice of a picked over QB class.

 

If SF takes a QB, then I still won't be happy because either Watson or Trubisky will still be there. Id accept passing more if no QB goes #2.

[davell]

You're right. Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, Allen- they COULD regress and /or not turn pro. But that's a HUGE group to start with and Rosen/Darnold have a different feel than your typical 1st round hype guy to me anyway. They seem like special talents to me.

 

But, guys come out of nowhere and become serious prospects too. Where were Trubisky or Mahomes at in the preseason? There's likely to be additions to the starting group for 2018.....Watson and Kizer did hold their stock, for the most part. So, some of these 2018 guys should be expected to, as well.

 

Mason Randolph has tools. Jake Browning probably IS a 1st rounder. Francois at FSU could jump into this discussion. Falk is likely an early round guy. Quinton Flowers isn't my cup of tea, but some like him. McSorley and Speight are interesting. There's probably more too. If it were just THAT group, you'd get the "next years class is better" crap out of some. Without even mentioning the top 4 guys.

 

This isn't just an "every year, they say that" type of deal. If you look at the options, it truly does look much, much better. Past years aren't truly compared to 2004, this one has an actual shot. Its got the upper end talent and the depth too.

 

I'll gladly own it if I'm wrong. But, I hope we wait on our 1st round QB. I think its just better for us.

 

Give me a late round guy this year(Kelly, since he can rehab his image a bit and become a commodity of some value, before we trade him for more than the 5-7th rounder we gave up). See what Glennon can do.....(you almost HAVE to think he's going to be better than what we're all expecting)

 

If Glennon shits the bed and we're top 5 next year, then jump at one. Plus, again, I hate taking a guy this year early and have him switch systems in year 2.