"Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

[Sammy Sofa]

If he was on a team where he didn't have to be in the field, sure. I don't mind the Cubs having him around as a bench bat/sometimes platoon guy...but it seems more and more like the ship has sailed on him being any measure of THE guy like they had hoped out there.

 

I'm just saying, if Theo and co. are determined to have these Frankenstein's monster-lineups, I would have preferred something like having to juggle Schwarber, Bryant, Baez and Machado between LF-3B-SS than what they're stuck with. Stupid greedy team.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Sammy Sofa

[Derwood]

The Gu is a perfect superhero name for him.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Shoulda Stayed-Big Ragu.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

3 games in March: .417 .462 1.000 1.462

 

11 games so far in April: .125 .205 .200 .405

 

11 games so far in April: .125 .205 .200 .405

 

11 games so far in April

 

11 games

[Sammy Sofa]

And he'll still be mediocre at best at 111 games this season.

[Sammy Sofa]

Second half of 2018 Kyle:

 

.221 .323 .417 .740

 

BAbip: .272

tOPS+: 80

sOPS+: 103

wOBA: .304

wRC: 20

wRC+: 89

 

Take your pick.

 

THE TREND OF STENCH CONTINUES.

 

[Cubswin11]

Second half of 2018 Kyle:

 

.221 .323 .417 .740

 

BAbip: .272

tOPS+: 80

sOPS+: 103

wOBA: .304

wRC: 20

wRC+: 89

 

Take your pick.

 

THE TREND OF STENCH CONTINUES.

 

I don’t remember so that’s why I’m asking and not trying to make any sort of point but his back injury kicked in around July/August last year didn’t it?

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't remember either (SHOCKING). But as with Bryant, historical injuries with the Cubs don't do much to make me feel better in terms of hoping they'll get better.

[Cubswin11]

I don't remember either (SHOCKING). But as with Bryant, historical injuries with the Cubs don't do much to make me feel better in terms of hoping they'll get better.

I don’t think it came out until after the season but basically he was dealing with a back injury for a good amount of time and playing through it, iirc, sometime in the second half.

 

Edit: looks like he did have disc issue in his back sometime in August and it caused him to miss a lot of September and October games and he was playing through it for a while.

 

 

Among many, many other interesting things, Sharma notes Schwarber’s potentially depressed trade value and writes, “It doesn’t help that Schwarber is coming off a disc-related back issue that limited him to 18 games in September and October and kept him from making a couple road trips with the team to avoid long flights. How that is affecting his trade value isn’t completely clear, but it’s certainly not a positive.”

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't remember either (SHOCKING). But as with Bryant, historical injuries with the Cubs don't do much to make me feel better in terms of hoping they'll get better.

I don’t think it came out until after the season but basically he was dealing with a back injury for a good amount of time and playing through it, iirc, sometime in the second half.

 

Tracks with this damn org. Ugh.

[Sammy Sofa]

Though those 18 games in Sept/Oct. are actually what salvaged those 2nd half numbers from looking even worse. Go figure. Maybe he needs his mutant lumpy spine.

[BigSlick]

Schwarber rules, all of you are insane

[bcl412]

Even if he sucks now being angry at him isn’t something I can get behind. His monster dongs in 15 and the comeback from injury in 16 were enough to keep that from happening. Would love to see more schwarber greatness but if it’s over then fine

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

[PackLandVA]

I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

 

For drafting him?

 

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

 

Or for not trading him not that his value is lowered?

 

Or some other reason?

[Cubswin11]

I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

In fairness to the FO, if he doesn’t blow out his knee in a fluke play and could’ve stayed catching (like he was drafted to) even just ~55 games a year the bat is a lot more valuable and his overall outcome is better.

[Backtobanks]

I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

 

For drafting him?

 

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

 

Or for not trading him not that his value is lowered?

 

Or some other reason?

 

 

For not trading him when people thought he was the second coming of Babe Ruth. I suggested trading both Russell and Schwarber when they had trade value.

[squally1313]

I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

 

For drafting him?

 

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

 

Or for not trading him not that his value is lowered?

 

Or some other reason?

 

 

For not trading him when people thought he was the second coming of Babe Ruth. I suggested trading both Russell and Schwarber when they had trade value.

 

Good for you? Do you suggest trading Baez now? Or Contreras if he puts together a good three months? Probably should have traded KB coming off his ROY season given his play last year and this year.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

 

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

 

That, and it applies potentially to multiple guys on the team. I get the video game appeal of fielding a team of almost nothing but homegrown stud bats, but that's not something likely to pan out, and it's not like the pitching issues were ever going to be something to take them by surprise with the way the team was constructed and how their drafting went.

 

It's just long bugged me how seemingly every single significant minor leaguer they developed or drafted who got called up seemingly became untouchable once they arrived.

 

I know a lot of it is hindsight, but it can't help but annoy me that between Baez, Russell, Contreras, Happ, Almora and Schwarber, NONE of those guys were traded when they would have brought back or helped bring back a really good return in an area of weakness from an area of strength.

[squally1313]

I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

 

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

 

That, and it applies potentially to multiple guys on the team. I get the video game appeal of fielding a team of almost nothing but homegrown stud bats, but that's not something likely to pan out, and it's not like the pitching issues were ever going to be something to take them by surprise with the way the team was constructed and how their drafting went.

 

It's just long bugged me how seemingly every single significant minor leaguer they developed or drafted who got called up seemingly became untouchable once they arrived.

 

I know a lot of it is hindsight, but it can't help but annoy me that between Baez, Russell, Contreras, Happ, Almora and Schwarber, NONE of those guys were traded when they would have brought back or helped bring back a really good return in an area of weakness from an area of strength.

 

But that's only half the equation. Did you want to trade them for players at a similar cost and similar points in their careers? Because then you're just moving the issue around, and in your vision from positions that are usually much easier to predict (hitters) to ones much harder to predict (pitchers).

 

Or did you want to trade for older, more proven but more expensive players? It's interesting you started that list with Baez. When did you want to trade him, and what do you think we could have gotten that would have turned into more than what we've gotten from Baez over the last year?

 

I'm not at all opposed to criticizing Theo/Jed...the failure to develop a single pitcher, what looks to be multiple misses in free agency, and that's before getting into things like Chapman, Murphy, Russell. But it's easy to look back at Happ/Almora/Schwarber/Russell now and be like 'well inevitably they were going to turn into garbage, and only we were supposed to know that and flip them at exactly the right time' when 'the right time' was when everyone was thinking 'these guys are a big part of our future'.

[Cubswin11]

I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

 

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

 

That, and it applies potentially to multiple guys on the team. I get the video game appeal of fielding a team of almost nothing but homegrown stud bats, but that's not something likely to pan out, and it's not like the pitching issues were ever going to be something to take them by surprise with the way the team was constructed and how their drafting went.

They won a WS and have the most wins in MLB since all these guys were up together. I’d say it has panned out.

 

Who knows what pitching was really available or how close they came to moving any guys. There were always rumors Mets or Indians pitchers were available but both those teams were trying to win so who knows plus all the Mets guys had injuries or have fallen off since, none would’ve been slam dunk moves and none were ultimately moved and trading the young MLB bats who had success for pitching prospects would’ve been a dumb move. Idk what other impact pitchers were available (none were moved other than Sale, who I doubt they would’ve traded to us) in that 2015-17 range.

[The SABR Gamer]

 

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

 

That, and it applies potentially to multiple guys on the team. I get the video game appeal of fielding a team of almost nothing but homegrown stud bats, but that's not something likely to pan out, and it's not like the pitching issues were ever going to be something to take them by surprise with the way the team was constructed and how their drafting went.

They won a WS and have the most wins in MLB since all these guys were up together. I’d say it has panned out.

 

Who knows what pitching was really available or how close they came to moving any guys. There were always rumors Mets or Indians pitchers were available but both those teams were trying to win so who knows plus all the Mets guys had injuries or have fallen off since, none would’ve been slam dunk moves and none were ultimately moved and trading the young MLB bats who had success for pitching prospects would’ve been a dumb move. Idk what other impact pitchers were available (none were moved other than Sale, who I doubt they would’ve traded to us) in that 2015-17 range.

 

Based on his complaints, Sammy Sofa would have apparently only been satisfied with a 40-WAR lineup lol. The level of negativity here towards barely more than 2 weeks of baseball is kind of goofy as hell and a reminder that most of the people here, or any message board, are just looking for a place to have a meltdown. The position player WAR output of the last several years is about as good as you could realistically expect. If you were hoping for much more, maybe watch more baseball or look around the league at other good lineups?

[Sammy Sofa]

 

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

 

That, and it applies potentially to multiple guys on the team. I get the video game appeal of fielding a team of almost nothing but homegrown stud bats, but that's not something likely to pan out, and it's not like the pitching issues were ever going to be something to take them by surprise with the way the team was constructed and how their drafting went.

They won a WS and have the most wins in MLB since all these guys were up together. I’d say it has panned out.

 

The WS was in 2016. Running the team since then like they figured everyone they promoted was going to pan out in the long run is some completely unrealistic video game nonsense.

 

Again, it's about dealing from a position of strength for a position of weakness; it's been obvious for a while that pitching development wasn't panning out AND that the Cubs had a starting rotation that needed some work. I simply would have preferred they had moved to bring in pitching prospects and/or established starters instead of hoarding all of Their Guys.

 

Sure, maybe the moves simply weren't there, or the timing didn't line up. And I'm not saying they should have traded all or most of those names. But to act like keeping them all was some kind of, "well, what do you expect, ah-doy?!?"-move doesn't track.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not at all opposed to criticizing Theo/Jed...the failure to develop a single pitcher, what looks to be multiple misses in free agency, and that's before getting into things like Chapman, Murphy, Russell. But it's easy to look back at Happ/Almora/Schwarber/Russell now and be like 'well inevitably they were going to turn into garbage, and only we were supposed to know that and flip them at exactly the right time' when 'the right time' was when everyone was thinking 'these guys are a big part of our future'.

 

I'm not saying they're supposed to magically know which guys aren't going to pan out; I'm saying the assumption should be that some of those guys weren't going pan out because that's baseball, and the prudent thing to do is to take the inherent gamble on who they think that guy or guys might be and try to bolster another part of the team. To not utilize ANY of them as a trade asset is what bugs me. Maybe the right time never was there, but it just seems kinda glaring to glom onto essentially everyone of note you've promoted when the FO is supposed to be so good at being able to continue to spot and develop talent.

[squally1313]

I'm not at all opposed to criticizing Theo/Jed...the failure to develop a single pitcher, what looks to be multiple misses in free agency, and that's before getting into things like Chapman, Murphy, Russell. But it's easy to look back at Happ/Almora/Schwarber/Russell now and be like 'well inevitably they were going to turn into garbage, and only we were supposed to know that and flip them at exactly the right time' when 'the right time' was when everyone was thinking 'these guys are a big part of our future'.

 

I'm not saying they're supposed to magically know which guys aren't going to pan out; I'm saying the assumption should be that some of those guys weren't going pan out because that's baseball, and the prudent thing to do is to take the inherent gamble on who they think that guy or guys might be and try to bolster another part of the team. To not utilize ANY of them as a trade asset is what bugs me. Maybe the right time never was there, but it just seems kinda glaring to glom onto essentially everyone of note you've promoted when the FO is supposed to be so good at being able to continue to spot and develop talent.

 

But...they did? They turned Eloy into a starter who was top 10-top 20 in fWAR oover the previous few years with a bunch of control. They turned Vogelbach into a swing guy with a ton of team control. They turned Gleyber into the best closer for 2016, then they turned Soler into an elite closer for 2017. They clearly prioritized trading people who were still in the minors vs players that had shown some level of major league success, but we've been in 'win now' mode for 4+ seasons now...it's not exactly surprising they chose to deal from the minors than take away from talent that was (at the time) producing in the major leagues for a contending team.