New Benny, and Other changes (Bulls offseason)

[bcl412]

Valentine feels like a very Chicago Bulls pick.

[SpongeWorthy]

valentine is garpax's new kirk

[David]

butler has a ton of value and is a good contract for a team like minnesota that has foundational pieces and an ace coach

 

also, as for this part, his value on the trade market is fairly absolute and not really determined by what he's worth to us (even if you think he's worth less to us). if we trade him, we need to get appropriate value in return. not a 5th pick in a weak draft.

[UMFan83]

Smells like a Pax pick not a Gar pick. Pax loves those guys who played for big programs whose team had a lot of success.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

i'm very confused. your post could almost not have been more wrong.

 

Disagree.

David is right.

 

I'm not ga-ga for Butler.

[UMFan83]

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Hahahaha

[David]

I kinda think an all out tank is an overrated team building tactic. I don't like trading a young, talented player for nothing/a flier

 

I mostly do too but the first thing you need to win a title is a super duper star. The Bulls don't have one. If they believe Dunn has a chance to be one you have a lottery ticket and with the trade you probably suck enough to have a second one.

 

That said you can get more value than this, likely at the deadline.

 

But you have to get a superstar. Until then the Bulls are just treading water. None of them are going to sign here and you don't have the assets to trade for one so its gotta be in the draft.

 

is winning a title really the only goal? winning a title is a pipe dream for 90% of the league every season. i want a team that i enjoy watching over the winter. if you luck into an MJ or LBJ, then that's gravy. what i don't want is to have a crap ass team for years with nothing to show for it, which is what really happens when most basketball teams tank. and if/when they do come out of it, they almost always end up in so-called "nba hell" all over again.

[raw]

Hey, I actually really wanted Valentine in the hopes that he's Draymond Green II. He's not, but he's a solid guy who's likely able to help right away.

[David]

valentine is garpax's new kirk

 

i mean if that's what they actually got at 14 in a bad draft, that wouldn't be terrible

[Sammy Sofa]

 

Hahahaha

 

[expletive]. I don't like not being fond of him, Paxson and, to a lesser degree, Cartwright.

[David]

 

Hahahaha

 

[expletive]. I don't like not being fond of him, Paxson and, to a lesser degree, Cartwright.

 

my hatred for cartwright runs deep

[Sammy Sofa]

 

Hahahaha

 

[expletive]. I don't like not being fond of him, Paxson and, to a lesser degree, Cartwright.

 

my hatred for cartwright runs deep

 

The memory of those free throws always brings me back a bit.

[SpongeWorthy]

butler has a ton of value and is a good contract for a team like minnesota that has foundational pieces and an ace coach

 

also, as for this part, his value on the trade market is fairly absolute and not really determined by what he's worth to us (even if you think he's worth less to us). if we trade him, we need to get appropriate value in return. not a 5th pick in a weak draft.

 

not if your aim is to bottom out. the bulls could probably get a player that will help them next year better than dunn but if you get someone with butler's approximate, current value you flirt with .500 and pick in the late lottery again.

[David]

butler has a ton of value and is a good contract for a team like minnesota that has foundational pieces and an ace coach

 

also, as for this part, his value on the trade market is fairly absolute and not really determined by what he's worth to us (even if you think he's worth less to us). if we trade him, we need to get appropriate value in return. not a 5th pick in a weak draft.

 

not if your aim is to bottom out. the bulls could probably get a player that will help them next year better than dunn but if you get someone with butler's approximate, current value you flirt with .500 and pick in the late lottery again.

 

so your argument is intentionally avoid an adequate/appropriate return so you can be extra bad?

 

like if two teams were making offers and one of them was clearly better (and made you better in the near term), you don't take that one so you don't flirt with .500 and pick late in the lottery?

[SpongeWorthy]

 

also, as for this part, his value on the trade market is fairly absolute and not really determined by what he's worth to us (even if you think he's worth less to us). if we trade him, we need to get appropriate value in return. not a 5th pick in a weak draft.

 

not if your aim is to bottom out. the bulls could probably get a player that will help them next year better than dunn but if you get someone with butler's approximate, current value you flirt with .500 and pick in the late lottery again.

 

so your argument is intentionally avoid an adequate/appropriate return so you can be extra bad?

 

to a degree, yeah. i'd say it's more like take a flier on a prospect with some upside rather than someone can approximate butler's current value.

 

i'm not super gung ho on this plan because it's still garpax pushing the buttons but i wouldn't mind a tank.

[UMFan83]

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[David]

for a 14th pick, i like valentine from what i've seen. but i really don't know much about college players. like his size and seems to be a good 3 point shooter.

[raw]

for a 14th pick, i like valentine from what i've seen. but i really don't know much about college players. like his size and seems to be a good 3 point shooter.

 

Kind of a do everything guy. Can shoot, pass, defend some. Doesn't have the elite athleticism (bad knees) to create his own shot whenever he wants it. Probably similar to a bigger (better rebounding) Hinrich back when he was decent.

[davell]

I like Valentine. GarPax are as bad as Theo/Jed are good though. A "retool" done by these guys is going to result in multiple 30-40 win type seasons. Purgatory. No big name FA is coming to Chicago, they've got to find them at the top of the draft. I don't give a flying horsefeathers about watching a borderline competitive team that finishes consistently between 6-10 in the East. I don't even understand how that CAN be fun. Have some ambition.

 

 

Maybe you trade Jimmy after FA begins or at the deadline. But a plan to stay mediocre is horsefeathering stupid and right now.....That's what it looks like.

[David]

I like Valentine. GarPax are as bad as Theo/Jed are good though. A "retool" done by these guys is going to result in multiple 30-40 win type seasons. Purgatory. No big name FA is coming to Chicago, they've got to find them at the top of the draft. I don't give a flying [expletive] about watching a borderline competitive team that finishes consistently between 6-10 in the East. I don't even understand how that CAN be fun. Have some ambition.

 

 

Maybe you trade Jimmy after FA begins or at the deadline. But a plan to stay mediocre is [expletive] stupid and right now.....That's what it looks like.

 

This isn't baseball or football. You don't have a shot at a title as long as you are decent and get into the playoffs. I can't remember the last time I saw more than 2 teams as legit title contenders, maybe 3. If you luck into a great player and win titles, that's cool and all, but it's a damn near impossible thing to set out to do. Especially with a cap on player salaries. They don't come around in the draft all that often (that's an understatement) and the financial advantages a big market should have don't matter.

 

You know what really sucks? Winning 15 games and then drafting Marcus Fizer or some horsefeathers. And then winning 15 games again. And again. And again. Going years without being interested in the team after 2 or 3 games.

[SpongeWorthy]

Seems like the solution would be to not draft Marcus Fizers rather than eschew high draft picks.

 

The baby bulls wouldve been pretty dangerous i thought jay williams wouldve been an all star pg.

[David]

Seems like the solution would be to not draft Marcus Fizers rather than eschew high draft picks.

 

The baby bulls wouldve been pretty dangerous i thought jay williams wouldve been an all star pg.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_draft

 

and while that's an extreme example of a bad draft, the point is that there aren't superstars in every draft (far from it) and when there is ONE, plenty of teams are trying to get him and you have to actually win the lotto to get him. those odds aren't worth it to me. not investing years of suckage for those odds.

 

can't really agree on williams either. didn't see near enough from him his first year to think anything like that.

[UMFan83]

I don't understand the thought process of "winning an NBA title is too hard lets just be satisfied with winning 50 games and going to the second round"

[Derwood]

Seems like the solution would be to not draft Marcus Fizers rather than eschew high draft picks.

 

The baby bulls wouldve been pretty dangerous i thought jay williams wouldve been an all star pg.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_draft

 

and while that's an extreme example of a bad draft, the point is that there aren't superstars in every draft (far from it) and when there is ONE, plenty of teams are trying to get him and you have to actually win the lotto to get him. those odds aren't worth it to me. not investing years of suckage for those odds.

 

can't really agree on williams either. didn't see near enough from him his first year to think anything like that.

 

Or you could be Golden State and strike gold in like 5 straight drafts

[davell]

I like Valentine. GarPax are as bad as Theo/Jed are good though. A "retool" done by these guys is going to result in multiple 30-40 win type seasons. Purgatory. No big name FA is coming to Chicago, they've got to find them at the top of the draft. I don't give a flying [expletive] about watching a borderline competitive team that finishes consistently between 6-10 in the East. I don't even understand how that CAN be fun. Have some ambition.

 

 

Maybe you trade Jimmy after FA begins or at the deadline. But a plan to stay mediocre is [expletive] stupid and right now.....That's what it looks like.

 

This isn't baseball or football. You don't have a shot at a title as long as you are decent and get into the playoffs. I can't remember the last time I saw more than 2 teams as legit title contenders, maybe 3. If you luck into a great player and win titles, that's cool and all, but it's a damn near impossible thing to set out to do. Especially with a cap on player salaries. They don't come around in the draft all that often (that's an understatement) and the financial advantages a big market should have don't matter.

 

You know what really sucks? Winning 15 games and then drafting Marcus Fizer or some [expletive]. And then winning 15 games again. And again. And again. Going years without being interested in the team after 2 or 3 games.

 

Simple. Don't draft horsefeathering stiffs. Use FA to accentuate. I'd rather be horrible and give being GREAT a shot, than sitting in the 6-10 range in the shitty ass East for the rest of Jimmy's deal......Then, getting worse once he laughs at the ineptitude and leaves.

 

You're not going to stay in the 15 win range forever. Hell, trade off the kids and picks and reboot in 2 years. But give yourself a damn chance. I really don't even see how a 35-40 win team with no ceiling is watchable personally.