Golf thread

[Banedon]

This Phil Mickelson controversy is quite something. The USGA really dropped the ball from what it appears.

 

Nope, they got it exactly right. The rule people wanted them to use to DQ him explicitly states that if any other rule covers the violation, it takes precedence. In this case, hitting a moving ball is the violation, not attempting to stop a ball in motion. The real travesty is the idiot announcing crew having their panties in a wad over the whole thing and saying Mickelson will have to rebuild his reputation or whatever. just over the top nonsense.

 

Regardless, they have a clear loophole that they need to fix. Because Lee Westwood is dead on right about this.

 

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[JudasIscariotTheBird]

This Phil Mickelson controversy is quite something. The USGA really dropped the ball from what it appears.

 

Nope, they got it exactly right. The rule people wanted them to use to DQ him explicitly states that if any other rule covers the violation, it takes precedence. In this case, hitting a moving ball is the violation, not attempting to stop a ball in motion. The real travesty is the idiot announcing crew having their panties in a wad over the whole thing and saying Mickelson will have to rebuild his reputation or whatever. just over the top nonsense.

I don't think "exactly right" is the way to describe it. What the ruling should have been isn't really the lede. Its that Phil is a cheating douchehole who, for inexplicable reasons, decided to lie and state that he planned to cheat and take a penalty as a reason to not apologize for said cheating.

[mul21]

I don't disagree Phil did something slightly sketchy, but having been frustrated AF while playing golf, I totally get it. Regardless, they enforced the rules as written. I do agree that they need to close that loophole too.

[ConstableRabbit]

I don't really follow golf: are people overreacting? The clubhouse interview with Mickelson seemed ridiculous... the guy was effectively asking him if he thought he'd disgraced the game. Is that normal behavior?

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

I don't really follow golf: are people overreacting? The clubhouse interview with Mickelson seemed ridiculous... the guy was effectively asking him if he thought he'd disgraced the game. Is that normal behavior?

He asked that question because he disgraced the game. I'm trying to think of a baseball parallel, and the best I can come up with is a pitcher starting his delivery to the plate without having his foot on the rubber, and then pretending like he just felt like dancing to try and avoid a balk...but its worse than that because golf likes to pretend its a gentleman's game. Phil pretended that he did this ON PURPOSE to take a 2 shot penalty. He's lying about that, but that is actually worse than just completely losing his cool and keeping his ball from rolling off the green. This is Happy Gilmore level of non sense. He really should have withdrawn from the tourney.

[Banedon]

I don't really follow golf: are people overreacting? The clubhouse interview with Mickelson seemed ridiculous... the guy was effectively asking him if he thought he'd disgraced the game. Is that normal behavior?

He asked that question because he disgraced the game. I'm trying to think of a baseball parallel, and the best I can come up with is a pitcher starting his delivery to the plate without having his foot on the rubber, and then pretending like he just felt like dancing to try and avoid a balk...but its worse than that because golf likes to pretend its a gentleman's game. Phil pretended that he did this ON PURPOSE to take a 2 shot penalty. He's lying about that, but that is actually worse than just completely losing his cool and keeping his ball from rolling off the green. This is Happy Gilmore level of non sense. He really should have withdrawn from the tourney.

 

Yeah it's tough to compare it to another sports situation because it's 1) deliberately taking advantage of a rules loophole and 2) Golf specifically is self policing so nobody really looks for these kinds of loopholes, or at the very least, doesn't deliberately exploit them.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

I don't really follow golf: are people overreacting? The clubhouse interview with Mickelson seemed ridiculous... the guy was effectively asking him if he thought he'd disgraced the game. Is that normal behavior?

He asked that question because he disgraced the game. I'm trying to think of a baseball parallel, and the best I can come up with is a pitcher starting his delivery to the plate without having his foot on the rubber, and then pretending like he just felt like dancing to try and avoid a balk...but its worse than that because golf likes to pretend its a gentleman's game. Phil pretended that he did this ON PURPOSE to take a 2 shot penalty. He's lying about that, but that is actually worse than just completely losing his cool and keeping his ball from rolling off the green. This is Happy Gilmore level of non sense. He really should have withdrawn from the tourney.

 

Yeah it's tough to compare it to another sports situation because it's 1) deliberately taking advantage of a rules loophole and 2) Golf specifically is self policing so nobody really looks for these kinds of loopholes, or at the very least, doesn't deliberately exploit them.

Right, I think you'll see a lot of players on the tour giving Phil flack for this. At the least he needs to apologize.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't really follow golf: are people overreacting? The clubhouse interview with Mickelson seemed ridiculous... the guy was effectively asking him if he thought he'd disgraced the game. Is that normal behavior?

He asked that question because he disgraced the game. I'm trying to think of a baseball parallel, and the best I can come up with is a pitcher starting his delivery to the plate without having his foot on the rubber, and then pretending like he just felt like dancing to try and avoid a balk...but its worse than that because golf likes to pretend its a gentleman's game. Phil pretended that he did this ON PURPOSE to take a 2 shot penalty. He's lying about that, but that is actually worse than just completely losing his cool and keeping his ball from rolling off the green. This is Happy Gilmore level of non sense. He really should have withdrawn from the tourney.

 

Yeah it's tough to compare it to another sports situation because it's 1) deliberately taking advantage of a rules loophole and 2) Golf specifically is self policing so nobody really looks for these kinds of loopholes, or at the very least, doesn't deliberately exploit them.

What sport does not have people deliberately take advantage of rules loopholes?

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

He asked that question because he disgraced the game. I'm trying to think of a baseball parallel, and the best I can come up with is a pitcher starting his delivery to the plate without having his foot on the rubber, and then pretending like he just felt like dancing to try and avoid a balk...but its worse than that because golf likes to pretend its a gentleman's game. Phil pretended that he did this ON PURPOSE to take a 2 shot penalty. He's lying about that, but that is actually worse than just completely losing his cool and keeping his ball from rolling off the green. This is Happy Gilmore level of non sense. He really should have withdrawn from the tourney.

 

Yeah it's tough to compare it to another sports situation because it's 1) deliberately taking advantage of a rules loophole and 2) Golf specifically is self policing so nobody really looks for these kinds of loopholes, or at the very least, doesn't deliberately exploit them.

What sport does not have people deliberately take advantage of rules loopholes?

...golf, ultimate frisbee, and too many others to list here?

[Cubswin11]

I don't know the exact reasons behind it but I'm pretty sure there's a lot of animosity between a lot of the players and the USGA. I think more than anything the players were getting so pissed at the course and USGA that Phil did this as more of a F U to them and to make a joke of it because a lot of the players don't care for the USGA. I don't think this was the start of players looking to bend or take advantage of rules in ways that the spirit of them were meant to be.

[Banedon]

He asked that question because he disgraced the game. I'm trying to think of a baseball parallel, and the best I can come up with is a pitcher starting his delivery to the plate without having his foot on the rubber, and then pretending like he just felt like dancing to try and avoid a balk...but its worse than that because golf likes to pretend its a gentleman's game. Phil pretended that he did this ON PURPOSE to take a 2 shot penalty. He's lying about that, but that is actually worse than just completely losing his cool and keeping his ball from rolling off the green. This is Happy Gilmore level of non sense. He really should have withdrawn from the tourney.

 

Yeah it's tough to compare it to another sports situation because it's 1) deliberately taking advantage of a rules loophole and 2) Golf specifically is self policing so nobody really looks for these kinds of loopholes, or at the very least, doesn't deliberately exploit them.

What sport does not have people deliberately take advantage of rules loopholes?

 

That's pretty much my point. Golf is unique in major pro sports in that, until now, it's not something we've seen. Unless you know of another instance that I'm not thinking of.

[Cubswin11]

 

Yeah it's tough to compare it to another sports situation because it's 1) deliberately taking advantage of a rules loophole and 2) Golf specifically is self policing so nobody really looks for these kinds of loopholes, or at the very least, doesn't deliberately exploit them.

What sport does not have people deliberately take advantage of rules loopholes?

 

That's pretty much my point. Golf is unique in major pro sports in that, until now, it's not something we've seen. Unless you know of another instance that I'm not thinking of.

Spieth drop at the British Open is the only kinda example I can think of. It was well within rules though, just an unconventional use.

[PackLandVA]

Didn’t, like, 9 grown men heave a three ton boulder in the middle of the fairway out of the way of Cheetah’s ball because it was considered a “loose impediment”? Seriously?? A boulder is a loose impediment? Yep, that’s what the rule makers had in mind.

[biittner77]

The closest equivalent in baseball would be striking out on purpose because it's the top of the 5th and its raining so you're trying to make the game official.

 

The PGA and the USGA have been at odds before. I remember John Daly going off on a tirade about how the USGA was just trying to embarrass the players by making the playing conditions brutally difficult. The stock answer to complaints like this that the course is the same for everyone. OK, that's true. But that's true whether the winning score was +10 or -30. The USGA wants the winning score to be about even par. Everyone knows this going in. Certainly Phil Mickelson knew this. I think it's possible he planned on doing this as a protest.

 

Golf is weird because players are supposed to penalize themselves. No other sport does that. However, we've seen players get penalized for doing something that someone saw them do on TV. In those cases, was it a matter of not knowing the rules or figuring no one would notice?

 

I don't think he disgraced the game. I think he made a statement that if conditions are such that taking a 2 stroke penalty is better than trying to play by the rules then something is wrong.

[Thurman Merman]

But the course wasn't the same for everyone. The first people that teed off shot like -6, and as the course dried out, the scores went up dramatically.

[Splendid Splinter]

It seems like this convo about players/USGA happens every 3-4 years. Anyone remember Chambers Bay? How long and brutal/shitty conditions it was in? Every player complained about that course afterwards.

 

Hell, I remember some US Opens where +5 was the winning score. Put me in the camp that having everyone struggle to make par is not fun to watch. It's cool to see a Rory, Speith, DJ, etc throw up a mid/high 70s from time to time to let us know these pros can have bad days on a tough course. But when everyone does that and seeing great shots being "penalized", it's cringeworthy to me.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

It seems like this convo about players/USGA happens every 3-4 years. Anyone remember Chambers Bay? How long and brutal/horsefeathers conditions it was in? Every player complained about that course afterwards.

 

Hell, I remember some US Opens where +5 was the winning score. Put me in the camp that having everyone struggle to make par is not fun to watch. It's cool to see a Rory, Speith, DJ, etc throw up a mid/high 70s from time to time to let us know these pros can have bad days on a tough course. But when everyone does that and seeing great shots being "penalized", it's cringeworthy to me.

[Wilson A2000]

There's been a lot of animosity between the players and the USGA in recent years. In 2004 at Shinnecock, no one could keep their tee shots to the par 3 7th on the green because the USGA dried it out and cut it too short before the round started. At Chambers Bay in 2015, the greens were really bad. At Oakmont in 2016, Dustin Johnson was penalized because his ball moved when he put his putter next to the ball and the USGA took hours to come to a conclusion and tell him (that rule was subsequently changed). Last year, Erin Hills was way too easy and the fairways too wide. And this year the pin placements were much too hard on Saturday and put in places where a ball could roll off the green that didn't deserve to. Phil wants to win the US Open more than anything to achieve the career Grand Slam. His frustration boiled over and Phil hit his moving ball to make a point that the USGA is trying to make themselves and not the tournament the centerpiece. The Executive Director of the USGA - Mike Davis - is on the hot seat. The players don't like what has become of the US's national championship and Phil is the ring leader. And the USGA keeps messing up every year.

[CyHawk_Cub]

Golf LOL.

 

I know, I've contributed nothing to this discussion.

[Butterscup]

somehow even less than you think

[jersey cubs fan]

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[PackLandVA]

Francesco Molinari goes bogey-free on a pretty windy Sunday , and shoots 2-under final round for a two stroke win. As is the case in links golf, stay away from mistakes and you’ve got a shot to win.

[Butterscup]

That was a fun final round, was really hoping for a playoff. Tiger had his chances. Reallllyyyy debating dropping $250-300 on Saturday/Sunday tickets for the PGA Championship in a couple weeks. Never been to a live tournament and might never have the chance to see Tiger in person again.

[Cubswin11]

That was a fun final round, was really hoping for a playoff. Tiger had his chances. Reallllyyyy debating dropping $250-300 on Saturday/Sunday tickets for the PGA Championship in a couple weeks. Never been to a live tournament and might never have the chance to see Tiger in person again.

I’d recommend going if you’ve never been. They are fun events and also seeing Tiger is awesome. If you can get a weekday off the practice rounds are fun too, golfers are more laid back obviously and crowds are a little lighter

[sweetpeteman]

Tiger wins his first tournament since 2013, but Rose managed to birdie 18 to take the FedEx Cup. If he had parred, Tiger would've won it, which is nuts.