Patrick Kane Rape Investigation

[Guest]

I was expecting Kane and his cousins gang-raping her. This claim is not better, if he did it, but it's certainly harder to prove and might not be true.

 

Does it make me a terrible person to point out how weird it is (doesn't mean it's not true - just means it sounds a little unusual) that, as a guest at a strange house, she would walk into some room by herself?

 

Again, not saying it's not true. Hell, maybe he told her she could go pass out on some bed and then he followed her in. Who knows? Just sounded weird when I was first picturing what was written.

 

I do not think that makes you a terrible person* but I do not think that is weird at all. In that situation, post-bar get together at a celebrity's lakeside mansion, I would expect guests to wind up roaming around and finding rooms unattended. If I was a well known athlete with a big ass house on a lake and I was taking strangers back there after the bar, I would bet heavily that this type of things happens every single night.

 

 

*your faulty hard drive makes you a terrible person

 

Yeah, I guess I could see that.

[Sammy Sofa]

Holy [expletive], this interview with the bar owner in the Buffalo News is absurd:

 

http://deadspin.com/report-accuser-claims-patrick-kane-overpowered-and-rap-1723073528

 

There is a lot more in the Buffalo News story, and the largest section—from an interview with the owner of Sky Bar, is really [expletive] questionable. Mark Croce is afforded plenty of space to tell the paper that a woman was being “very forward, very flirtatious” with Kane—who he says wasn’t noticeably drunk—and that she “followed” him when he left the bar.

 

This is irresponsible reporting by the News. Brian Moritz and Alan Bedenko have already written about the inclusion of Croce’s account, and they’ve both done excellent jobs of it, so I urge you to read both of them. Moritz identifies this as what it is: victim-blaming. The implication is that the woman was drunk and attracted to Kane—neither of which has the least relevance to anything that may have happened later that night, or the question of consent. Bedenko calls out the News for failing to put Croce’s comments in the context of a biased bar owner attempting to avoid liability in any potential criminal investigations or civil suits that may spring from this incident. (There were originally photos of Kane at the bar posted on Sky Bar’s Facebook page, but after news of the accusations broke, the bar deleted those photos.)

 

In the News story, Croce finally admits he has no idea if the woman at the bar was the same one who accused Kane of rape. That alone should have been enough for the paper to not publish his remarks. The News has been doing very good reporting on the Kane investigation, but this was a very bad move.

 

Bar owner trying to protect himself by protecting Kane?

 

[tweet]

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Regardless, it's still pretty despicable. How "forward" and "flirtatious" she was in the bar (if it's even the same woman!) is meaningless when it comes to what supposedly happened later. She could have been walking around wearing a t-shirt that lit up "I'M GOING TO [expletive] PATRICK KANE" and it wouldn't matter. What a scumbag.

[wolf stansson]

I was expecting Kane and his cousins gang-raping her. This claim is not better, if he did it, but it's certainly harder to prove and might not be true.

 

Does it make me a terrible person to point out how weird it is (doesn't mean it's not true - just means it sounds a little unusual) that, as a guest at a strange house, she would walk into some room by herself?

 

Again, not saying it's not true. Hell, maybe he told her she could go pass out on some bed and then he followed her in. Who knows? Just sounded weird when I was first picturing what was written.

 

Who says it was a bedroom? Just to throw out random possibilities, a rec room with jersey's and other memorabilia that would have drawn her in...and maybe had a couch or something where the attack took place? We don't have enough information to say it was weird or not.

This is all beside the point. If someone tells you to stop doing something to them, you have to stop. IF PK didn't stop, it doesn't matter where it happened, it doesn't matter how on board with everything this girl was or at what point in the interaction she decided to tell him to stop.

 

Sully is right though, this will be very hard to prove and that will just make your fan relationship with Kane even more complicated going forward. I'm sorry you guys can't have nice things.

[Guest]

I was expecting Kane and his cousins gang-raping her. This claim is not better, if he did it, but it's certainly harder to prove and might not be true.

 

Does it make me a terrible person to point out how weird it is (doesn't mean it's not true - just means it sounds a little unusual) that, as a guest at a strange house, she would walk into some room by herself?

 

Again, not saying it's not true. Hell, maybe he told her she could go pass out on some bed and then he followed her in. Who knows? Just sounded weird when I was first picturing what was written.

 

Who says it was a bedroom? Just to throw out random possibilities, a rec room with jersey's and other memorabilia that would have drawn her in...and maybe had a couch or something where the attack took place? We don't have enough information to say it was weird or not.

This is all beside the point. If someone tells you to stop doing something to them, you have to stop. IF PK didn't stop, it doesn't matter where it happened, it doesn't matter how on board with everything this girl was or at what point in the interaction she decided to tell him to stop.

 

Sully is right though, this will be very hard to prove and that will just make your fan relationship with Kane even more complicated going forward. I'm sorry you guys can't have nice things.

 

That wasn't what I was getting at. By saying it was hard to believe, I was merely suggesting, "This sounds kinda made up/embellished."

 

But it's not crazy unbelievable or anything.

 

Definitely not doing the whole "she knew what she was there for" thing if it actually did happen.

[Banedon]

I was expecting Kane and his cousins gang-raping her. This claim is not better, if he did it, but it's certainly harder to prove and might not be true.

 

Does it make me a terrible person to point out how weird it is (doesn't mean it's not true - just means it sounds a little unusual) that, as a guest at a strange house, she would walk into some room by herself?

 

Again, not saying it's not true. Hell, maybe he told her she could go pass out on some bed and then he followed her in. Who knows? Just sounded weird when I was first picturing what was written.

 

Who says it was a bedroom? Just to throw out random possibilities, a rec room with jersey's and other memorabilia that would have drawn her in...and maybe had a couch or something where the attack took place? We don't have enough information to say it was weird or not.

This is all beside the point. If someone tells you to stop doing something to them, you have to stop. IF PK didn't stop, it doesn't matter where it happened, it doesn't matter how on board with everything this girl was or at what point in the interaction she decided to tell him to stop.

 

Right...that's not really what the discussion was about. If he raped her, it doesn't matter where she was. It was simply addressing whether the scenario sounded plausible/believable, in regards to her overall story.

[Sammy Sofa]

Given the rumors/talk about the type of partying that went down at his place on a regular basis there's not much that would sound too outlandish. Someone walking around checking out rooms is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the list in terms of things that I'd think sounded even remotely unrealistic.

[jersey cubs fan]

Given the rumors/talk about the type of partying that went down at his place on a regular basis there's not much that would sound too outlandish. Someone walking around checking out rooms is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the list in terms of things that I'd think sounded even remotely unrealistic.

I'm still weirded out by the idea that his mom, dad and sisters may have been acting as sex bouncer at his parties.

[Sammy Sofa]

Given the rumors/talk about the type of partying that went down at his place on a regular basis there's not much that would sound too outlandish. Someone walking around checking out rooms is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the list in terms of things that I'd think sounded even remotely unrealistic.

I'm still weirded out by the idea that his mom, dad and sisters may have been acting as sex bouncer at his parties.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Vb3GYG9.gif

[ConstableRabbit]

The least realistic part of the story is the thought of Kane being able to overpower someone.

[Banedon]

I'm still weirded out by the idea that his mom, dad and sisters may have been acting as sex bouncer at his parties.

 

Waitwhatnow?

 

I missed this element of the story apparently.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm still weirded out by the idea that his mom, dad and sisters may have been acting as sex bouncer at his parties.

 

Waitwhatnow?

 

I missed this element of the story apparently.

Just the idea that his family was making "guests" sign release forms and hand in cell phones. It could very well be male cousins or something but that's boring.

[Guest]

I'm still weirded out by the idea that his mom, dad and sisters may have been acting as sex bouncer at his parties.

 

Waitwhatnow?

 

I missed this element of the story apparently.

Just the idea that his family was making "guests" sign release forms and hand in cell phones. It could very well be male cousins or something but that's boring.

 

Is that part of the story really that weird? (or are you just saying the fact that it was family doing it?)

 

With cameraphones and all that stuff, I would probably do the same and I'd figure it's commonplace when celebrities throw parties.

 

Hell normal people can't even go out with their friends these days and act drunk and stupid without having pictures or videos taken for all their other friends to laugh at

[squally1313]

I'm still weirded out by the idea that his mom, dad and sisters may have been acting as sex bouncer at his parties.

 

Waitwhatnow?

 

I missed this element of the story apparently.

Just the idea that his family was making "guests" sign release forms and hand in cell phones. It could very well be male cousins or something but that's boring.

 

Is that part of the story really that weird? (or are you just saying the fact that it was family doing it?)

 

With cameraphones and all that stuff, I would probably do the same and I'd figure it's commonplace when celebrities throw parties.

 

Hell normal people can't even go out with their friends these days and act drunk and stupid without having pictures or videos taken for all their other friends to laugh at

 

Especially after all the fallout from his weekend in Madison a few years back (which was deserved, but still). I think going with 'sex bouncers' is pretty strong when it's much more likely that Kane is just a terrible drinker (and I mean this solely for this discussion, not about what happened last weekend).

[Sammy Sofa]

It very quickly goes from "eh, not a bad idea for a very young famous person who likes to party a lot and too much" to likely enabling some REALLY bad behavior to keep continuing perpetually. This guy has been a star since he was 19; he's now 26. All of his friends and apparently even his family are just basically encouraging the party to never stop; this guy arguably never had a chance to ever grow up and realize you have to be accountable for something. Honestly, this is sounding less and less like it was a moment that went too far and more like it was sadly inevitable...and probably didn't only happen this once.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is that part of the story really that weird? (or are you just saying the fact that it was family doing it?)

 

The family part is the weird part. Obviously if you are in that situation you take precautions. The weird part is having family involved. And sex bouncers is not an inaccurate way to describe what that job entails.

 

 

Hire professionals.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ideally family is who you can ultimately hope is at some point going to say, "hey, maybe you need to scale back on the drinking and the anonymous hookups" after running wild for the better part of a decade as opposed to just, "hey, you need to have everyone sign waivers and turn in their phones...problem solved!"

[Guest]

It very quickly goes from "eh, not a bad idea for a very young famous person who likes to party a lot and too much" to likely enabling some REALLY bad behavior to keep continuing perpetually. This guy has been a star since he was 19; he's now 26. All of his friends and apparently even his family are just basically encouraging the party to never stop; this guy arguably never had a chance to ever grow up and realize you have to be accountable for something. Honestly, this is sounding less and less like it was a moment that went too far and more like it was sadly inevitable...and probably didn't only happen this once.

 

 

i was just talking to a coworker about the type of god complex an athlete with his background must have...from growing up as probably by far the best player on every team in the small town in a hockey crazed area part, to the immediate stardom at a young age in the pros.

[Sammy Sofa]

It very quickly goes from "eh, not a bad idea for a very young famous person who likes to party a lot and too much" to likely enabling some REALLY bad behavior to keep continuing perpetually. This guy has been a star since he was 19; he's now 26. All of his friends and apparently even his family are just basically encouraging the party to never stop; this guy arguably never had a chance to ever grow up and realize you have to be accountable for something. Honestly, this is sounding less and less like it was a moment that went too far and more like it was sadly inevitable...and probably didn't only happen this once.

 

 

i was just talking to a coworker about the type of god complex an athlete with his background must have...from growing up as probably by far the best player on every team in the small town in a hockey crazed area part, to the immediate stardom at a young age in the pros.

 

Yeah, it must be nuts. Who has ever really told this guy no over anything?

[squally1313]

It's a really sad and depressing situation in general. For as long as I reasonably can, I'm just going to really, really hope he didn't do it. Not that he doesn't get charged, or doesn't get suspended, or the charges get dropped, or whatever....that he actually didn't do it. If you guys want to say he's a serial rapist who throws sex parties all the time, go for it.

[apete6]

It's a really sad and depressing situation in general. For as long as I reasonably can, I'm just going to really, really hope he didn't do it. Not that he doesn't get charged, or doesn't get suspended, or the charges get dropped, or whatever....that he actually didn't do it. If you guys want to say he's a serial rapist who throws sex parties all the time, go for it.

 

You probably should just go ahead and admit defeat on that one. Based on all of the verified accounts of his "partying" over the years and life of entitlement, there's a FAR better chance that something happened than not. Still probably a pretty slim chance he faces a complete career-killing punishment over it due to his built-in advantages ($$$, fancy lawyers, the overall worldwide rape culture, likely lack of 100% damning evidence, etc...), but in everyone's heart of hearts, they know something shady happened and that it's probably closer to the worst case scenario than the best case scenario.

[squally1313]

It's a really sad and depressing situation in general. For as long as I reasonably can, I'm just going to really, really hope he didn't do it. Not that he doesn't get charged, or doesn't get suspended, or the charges get dropped, or whatever....that he actually didn't do it. If you guys want to say he's a serial rapist who throws sex parties all the time, go for it.

 

You probably should just go ahead and admit defeat on that one. Based on all of the verified accounts of his "partying" over the years and life of entitlement, there's a FAR better chance that something happened than not. Still probably a pretty slim chance he faces a complete career-killing punishment over it due to his built-in advantages ($$$, fancy lawyers, the overall worldwide rape culture, likely lack of 100% damning evidence, etc...), but in everyone's heart of hearts, they know something shady happened and that it's probably closer to the worst case scenario than the best case scenario.

 

I don't even want to be penciled in as just wanting to avoid a 'complete career-killing punishment'. I really hope he didn't do it because that means that a rape didn't happen.

 

Yeah, he doesn't have the best reputation, but it seems overly simple to be like 'well, this was bound to happen eventually'. He's had this reputation for 8 years and has the cab driving thing (not a sexual crime), the Madison stories (doesn't look good), and a bunch of more or less rumors and 'friend of a friend' stories.

[Sammy Sofa]

Given the sheer scope of how often sexual assaults occur it's really not overly simplistic to think it's likely that a very aggressive party monster sports superstar with a ton of money and probably a bit of a drinking problem and who has basically been fawned over his entire life by everyone around him has probably crossed the line before. And it doesn't have to be something as over the top aggressive as what's being accused here to be over the line. This isn't just, "oh, every man is likely to be a rapist" or even "a rich guy is going to get away with rape" hyperbole; he's got a laundry list of red flags.

[squally1313]

Given the sheer scope of how often sexual assaults occur it's really not overly simplistic to think it's likely that a very aggressive party monster sports superstar with a ton of money and probably a bit of a drinking problem and who has basically been fawned over his entire life by everyone around him has probably crossed the line before. And it doesn't have to be something as over the top aggressive as what's being accused here to be over the line. This isn't just, "oh, every man is likely to be a rapist" or even "a rich guy is going to get away with rape" hyperbole; he's got a laundry list of red flags.

 

Yeah absolutely. I think everyone knew he was a pretty terrible individual before last week. A lot of athletes are, and he was probably one of the worst, but everyone knew and, for lack of a better term, put up with it. I just don't know if I would go so far as to say that everyone would have gone on record as to be like 'yeah, he's probably going to rape someone at some point in his life' before all this came out. So to use that as something that should impact one's thoughts on what happened seems a bit of a stretch. The actual facts that we have are bad enough.

[Sammy Sofa]

Given the sheer scope of how often sexual assaults occur it's really not overly simplistic to think it's likely that a very aggressive party monster sports superstar with a ton of money and probably a bit of a drinking problem and who has basically been fawned over his entire life by everyone around him has probably crossed the line before. And it doesn't have to be something as over the top aggressive as what's being accused here to be over the line. This isn't just, "oh, every man is likely to be a rapist" or even "a rich guy is going to get away with rape" hyperbole; he's got a laundry list of red flags.

 

Yeah absolutely. I think everyone knew he was a pretty terrible individual before last week. A lot of athletes are, and he was probably one of the worst, but everyone knew and, for lack of a better term, put up with it. I just don't know if I would go so far as to say that everyone would have gone on record as to be like 'yeah, he's probably going to rape someone at some point in his life' before all this came out. So to use that as something that should impact one's thoughts on what happened seems a bit of a stretch. The actual facts that we have are bad enough.

 

Hey, I look at it along the lines of how the leagues have all seen escalating pressure to deal with things like DUI's and domestic violence. How many of those instances do you look at and think, "oh yeah, that's probably the only time they did that?"

[squally1313]

Given the sheer scope of how often sexual assaults occur it's really not overly simplistic to think it's likely that a very aggressive party monster sports superstar with a ton of money and probably a bit of a drinking problem and who has basically been fawned over his entire life by everyone around him has probably crossed the line before. And it doesn't have to be something as over the top aggressive as what's being accused here to be over the line. This isn't just, "oh, every man is likely to be a rapist" or even "a rich guy is going to get away with rape" hyperbole; he's got a laundry list of red flags.

 

Yeah absolutely. I think everyone knew he was a pretty terrible individual before last week. A lot of athletes are, and he was probably one of the worst, but everyone knew and, for lack of a better term, put up with it. I just don't know if I would go so far as to say that everyone would have gone on record as to be like 'yeah, he's probably going to rape someone at some point in his life' before all this came out. So to use that as something that should impact one's thoughts on what happened seems a bit of a stretch. The actual facts that we have are bad enough.

 

Hey, I look at it along the lines of how the leagues have all seen escalating pressure to deal with things like DUI's and domestic violence. How many of those instances do you look at and think, "oh yeah, that's probably the only time they did that?"

 

Sure, but that gets into the bigger question of how much fans are willing to put up with and/or be willingly ignorant of in order to enjoy sports. A vast majority of athletes are bad people. It'd be tough for me to be able to watch sports if I thought most of the people I'm watching have done something terrible in the past (and that's before concussions and everything else). Again....pretty depressing.