Cubs 2015 #6 Prospect

[imb]

I mean, I get the difference, but "I don't care how hittable Edwards is, now if I could only figure out why he doesn't give up home runs" is still hilarious.

 

Do you get the difference between "I'm curious if he can maintain it in the majors" and "I don't understand why"?

 

http://media2.giphy.com/media/WcZLo6gYFRlCg/200_s.gif

[Brickhouse]

McKinney is staging a strong comeback. Just a few votes away from a tie. Time for a run-off? Haven't had one of those in a while. I wonder who would win if the people who voted for Almora and others were forced to choose between Torres and McKinney.

 

Love these votes. Thanks for doing this. Lots of fun.

[toonsterwu]

Alright, runoffs take a lot of time, and we're bound to run into several the deeper we go. Thus, while I voted for Almora initially, I am changing my vote to see if we can avoid a runoff this early (I'm also with runoffs this high as there might be a tendency to simply plop those two guys down next, and I am always curious enough to want to see how votes would fall ... put it this way, I'm curious how many of the Torres/McKinney voters would necessarily go to the other for a subsequent vote).

 

I like McKinney. I think he can find a role in the majors. Offensively, the lack of power hurt, but Nori Aoki and Nick Markakis have found careers in the bigs. I don't think he's a centerfielder, and thus I'm left in a box with McKinney. I really need to see him produce up the ladder to justify ranking him high.

 

I almost wonder if we're hyping Torres up a bit too much. That said, shortstop prospects with solid tools and good performance are intriguing, and if I ranked Marco Hernandez high back in the day off of Arizona rookie reports (as much as people thought I was off my bonkers with Marco, go back and look at the reports out of Arizona back then ... actually, that old thread is probably still in the database where I linked to several of the BA comments on him), then I'd be a hypocrite to not consider Torres highly as well (and I think he's far better than Marco out of Arizona.

 

McKinney simply isn't that much further along for me to go with him over Torres, and while I understand the votes for McKinney, my vote switch goes to Torres.

[craig]

....I like McKinney. I think he can find a role in the majors. Offensively, the lack of power hurt, but Nori Aoki and Nick Markakis have found careers in the bigs. I don't think he's a centerfielder, and thus I'm left in a box with McKinney. I really need to see him produce up the ladder to justify ranking him high......McKinney simply isn't that much further along for me to go with him over Torres, and while I understand the votes for McKinney, my vote switch goes to Torres.

 

As I noted in an earlier point, I think the power question with McKinney is central to how we project him. You mention "the lack of power"; I wonder how lacking that is projection wise?

 

Heh heh, reference to Aoki and Markakis is interesting, if both are to represent power-deficient outfielders who were still variably useful. Aoki is seriously power-deficient; he's never exceeded 10 HR in a season, and last year hit only one. That is power-lacking in a way totally different from Markakis. If McKinney is power-deficient only to the degree that Markakis was, I think that's more reason to support him than to downgrade him. Markakis hit 16-23 HR per year during his first four seasons. Over his first six seasons, he OPS'd below .799 in only one of them, including slugging .489 and .491 during his 2nd and 3rd years.

 

To my view, if McKinney has Aoki power, hes way down the list for me. But if he's the disciplined balanced professional hitter that the scouts say of him, with the kind of power Markakis had early on before injuries, I'd have him higher than #6, not lower. That's not a problem at all, for me. The other point as always is that HR's are a function of strength during contact, but also how often you hit it on the nose. If he's just an excellent hit-it-on-the-nose hitter, he doesn't need Baez power to hit 15+ HR.

[ctcf]

I don't think it's crazy to see him as a ~15 HR hitter.

[toonsterwu]

I should be clear ... I was

 

a) the comparison to Markakis was made in reference to what Markakis became as he aged, and not what he was, or was supposed to be. He was supposed to be a top level corner OF who could hit for average and power, which he was in his early years. Whether it was his injuries, or swing changes (or more likely, a combination of both), Markakis' power fell. Off the top, I believe Markakis as a prospect was a top 50 type prospect (he was around the same time as Jeremy Hermida, and both were supposed to be a part of the next wave). I don't think McKinney is the prospect, as of now, that Markakis was.

 

b) I do think McKinney, if all goes well, could perhaps fall in that 12-17 HR range a year. Certainly, if he can do that, or if he hits for a high average and smashes a healthy number of doubles, he would be a fine major leaguer.

 

My note on power though, is that, I think the mediocre power projections for him, combined with a likelihood to move to LF, would make me want to see him produce up the ladder to rank him high. I guess it's somewhat similar to how I felt on Torreyes and Bruno, the latter being a personal favorite.

 

That's me, though. I think I'm being relatively consistent to how I've always felt about "types" of guys (everyone has personal favorites here and there that sway views). It's certainly possible that I'm being a touch unfair to McKinney's ceiling, and as noted, I'm not sure Torres isn't being a touch over-hyped, but if I'm picking between the two, that's how my thought process would go.

[SouthSideRyan]

RUNOFF

[Guest]

I say just leave it a tie and move on to #8.

[Some Guy]

Almora needs to be notified of this outrageous snub. I'm not switching my vote to either of these pretenders.

[Cubswin11]

Almora needs to be notified of this outrageous snub. I'm not switching my vote to either of these pretenders.

He sucks, he's Josh Vitters with defense

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Almora needs to be notified of this outrageous snub. I'm not switching my vote to either of these pretenders.

He sucks, he's Josh Vitters with defense

 

And less power.

 

CF Darwin Barney.

[Guest]

Almora needs to be notified of this outrageous snub. I'm not switching my vote to either of these pretenders.

He sucks, he's Josh Vitters with defense

 

And less power.

 

CF Darwin Barney.

If Vitters played a legit 3B (a couple spots down the defensive chain from CF) he'd still be a thing. I mean a CF Barney should give you plenty of good years of productive play.

 

I can see for the argument for Torres above Almora here, but he's still a top 10 guy. I see less of an argument for McKinney.

[toonsterwu]

I say just leave it a tie and move on to #8.

 

I'm sort of against that if time permits. I'm mildly curious where the votes would go. My guess is that yes, the other guy would likely grab the 7th spot, but I am curious about it as it sort of is a telling mark on how the community feels about guys to see the individual vote patterns per slot (considering we aren't doing multiple votes).

[craig]

McKinney is winning by a couple of votes. If that's still true when Tim gets around to it, give McKinney 6, Torres 7, and lets get on to 8, 9, and 10. :)

 

On McKinney, my understanding is that the Cubs feel he can easily be in the 12-17 HR range. Can he be in the 17-25 range?

[Guest]

Almora needs to be notified of this outrageous snub. I'm not switching my vote to either of these pretenders.

He sucks, he's Josh Vitters with defense

 

And less power.

 

CF Darwin Barney.

 

If Darwin Barney were capable of reaching AA at 20.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If Darwin Barney were capable of reaching AA at 20.

 

It's less impressive when the promotion wasn't deserved and the player sucks at the new level.

[Guest]

If Darwin Barney were capable of reaching AA at 20.

 

It's less impressive when the promotion wasn't deserved and the player sucks at the new level.

 

The fact that he was at A+ was already impressive. He killed A+ for a little while before the promotion too, IIRC. I'll side with the smart baseball people running our organization with the good player development track record over the hairyducked idiot with spinach in his teeth on this one.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If Darwin Barney were capable of reaching AA at 20.

 

It's less impressive when the promotion wasn't deserved and the player sucks at the new level.

 

The fact that he was at A+ was already impressive. He killed A+ for a little while before the promotion too, IIRC. I'll side with the smart baseball people running our organization with the good player development track record over the hairyducked idiot with spinach in his teeth on this one.

 

It's a chip.

 

Maybe they decided he was hopeless offensively so it didn't matter how fast they promoted him.