2015 Bears Offseason (Foxy new Head Coach page 104)

[Guest]

Greg Gabriel with a list of guys he'd look at for GM: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/12/30/gabriel-ernie-accorsi-will-help-bears-find-right-leader/

[cubbyvirus00]

The problem with the Philips situation; as I believe Arkush on the matter is that he's been with the McCaskey family for many years and knows where 'the bodies are buried.' I think removing him from the franchise completely is something that will never happen. His role can be shifted and you could ultimately give DeCosta more power then him on the football operations side of things.

[Banedon]

he's been with the McCaskey family for many years and knows where 'the bodies are buried.'

 

Hub said that a few times, and I'm not sure what he's implying...that he knows something about the McCaskey's that's illegal or scandalous?

[jersey cubs fan]

The problem with the Philips situation; as I believe Arkush on the matter is that he's been with the McCaskey family for many years and knows where 'the bodies are buried.' I think removing him from the franchise completely is something that will never happen. His role can be shifted and you could ultimately give DeCosta more power then him on the football operations side of things.

 

I still have no idea what Hub could be talking about other than the same "does he have naked photos of Dusty" stuff we all joked about with (insert worthless player here). Unless Ted Phillips literally knows where bodies lie and is blackmailing the family, there is no reason why he cannot be removed. The fact is the family does not want him removed. They want him as their buffer between the board of directors and the actual company that is the Chicago Bears. I can't believe any football man would want to be in that position and any man who has served in that role probably regrets getting involved in the non-football side of the business.

[Sammy Sofa]

he's been with the McCaskey family for many years and knows where 'the bodies are buried.'

 

Hub said that a few times, and I'm not sure what he's implying...that he knows something about the McCaskey's that's illegal or scandalous?

 

It's hyperbole. There's nothing to it. People just harbor boiling hatred him a la Crane Kenney and they can't wrap their meatball brains around the idea that anyone would want to hire him for anything.

[Banedon]

he's been with the McCaskey family for many years and knows where 'the bodies are buried.'

 

Hub said that a few times, and I'm not sure what he's implying...that he knows something about the McCaskey's that's illegal or scandalous?

 

It's hyperbole. There's nothing to it. People just harbor boiling hatred him a la Crane Kenney and they can't wrap their meatball brains around the idea that anyone would want to hire him for anything.

 

The comparison to Crane Kenney has gone through my head so many times the last few days...and I've wondered if Phillips is just "generic hateable executive" since it's obviously a fruitless exercise to hope that the McCaskey's would ever sell.

[RynoRules]

There's a couple of ways to look at the McCaskey's in terms of their continued retention of Phillips:

 

1. It is admirable that they have someone between them and the operations of the team (albeit the wrong person). They aren't professionals in the area of franchise operation and/or personnel evaluation. That is, "they know what they do not know."

 

2. The McCaskey's don't want the pressure of being the every day face(s) of the franchise (a la Woody Johnson in NY, Jed York in SF, or Dan Snyder in DC). As such they retain a figurehead who allows them to plausibly keep their heads down until the "fit hits the shan"as it did this season.

[Sammy Sofa]

There's a couple of ways to look at the McCaskey's in terms of their continued retention of Phillips:

 

1. It is admirable that they have someone between them and the operations of the team (albeit the wrong person). They aren't professionals in the area of franchise operation and/or personnel evaluation. That is, "they know what they do not know."

 

2. The McCaskey's don't want the pressure of being the every day face(s) of the franchise (a la Woody Johnson in NY, Jed York in SF, or Dan Snyder in DC). As such they retain a figurehead who allows them to plausibly keep their heads down until the "fit hits the shan"as it did this season.

 

I definitely look at it as a combo of the two. Obviously nobody wants Phillips really doing anything in terms of team building, but the way some people talk about him (and Kenney) like he's the source of everything that goes wrong and that he needs to go or else nothing will really change is absurd.

[Banedon]

There's a couple of ways to look at the McCaskey's in terms of their continued retention of Phillips:

 

1. It is admirable that they have someone between them and the operations of the team (albeit the wrong person). They aren't professionals in the area of franchise operation and/or personnel evaluation. That is, "they know what they do not know."

 

2. The McCaskey's don't want the pressure of being the every day face(s) of the franchise (a la Woody Johnson in NY, Jed York in SF, or Dan Snyder in DC). As such they retain a figurehead who allows them to plausibly keep their heads down until the "fit hits the shan"as it did this season.

 

I definitely look at it as a combo of the two. Obviously nobody wants Phillips really doing anything in terms of team building, but the way some people talk about him (and Kenney) like he's the source of everything that goes wrong and that he needs to go or else nothing will really change is absurd.

 

All that said, if it takes getting rid of him to get Decosta, do it.

[Sammy Sofa]

There's a couple of ways to look at the McCaskey's in terms of their continued retention of Phillips:

 

1. It is admirable that they have someone between them and the operations of the team (albeit the wrong person). They aren't professionals in the area of franchise operation and/or personnel evaluation. That is, "they know what they do not know."

 

2. The McCaskey's don't want the pressure of being the every day face(s) of the franchise (a la Woody Johnson in NY, Jed York in SF, or Dan Snyder in DC). As such they retain a figurehead who allows them to plausibly keep their heads down until the "fit hits the shan"as it did this season.

 

I definitely look at it as a combo of the two. Obviously nobody wants Phillips really doing anything in terms of team building, but the way some people talk about him (and Kenney) like he's the source of everything that goes wrong and that he needs to go or else nothing will really change is absurd.

 

All that said, if it takes getting rid of him to get Decosta, do it.

 

Yeah, he should definitely be expendable along those lines.

[Guest]

There's the anti-Kenney talk that occurred when he was still the Pres and that which continued to occur after he was strictly a business guy and a bonafide "GM/Pres" who didn't report into him was brought in. One of these was quite a bit less reasonable than the other as far as complaints go. So to compare Phillips, he still is pre-Theo Kenney, and the record leaves some uneasiness for some as far as successful pro team management goes.

[Sammy Sofa]

There's the anti-Kenney talk that occurred when he was still the Pres and that which continued to occur after he was strictly a business guy and a bonafide "GM/Pres" who didn't report into him was brought in. One of these was quite a bit less reasonable than the other as far as complaints go. So to compare Phillips, he still is pre-Theo Kenney, and the record leaves some uneasiness for some as far as successful pro team management goes.

 

Sure, I just think the talk from some about how he needs to go as part of cleaning house is often an overreaction; if the guy is good with the "business" side of thing and the McCaskeys are comfortable with him in that role then shifting him to that isn't a problem. It's not like a coach or management figure who can't (or, lets be realistic, almost always wouldn't) be shifted like that.

[Guest]

There's the anti-Kenney talk that occurred when he was still the Pres and that which continued to occur after he was strictly a business guy and a bonafide "GM/Pres" who didn't report into him was brought in. One of these was quite a bit less reasonable than the other as far as complaints go. So to compare Phillips, he still is pre-Theo Kenney, and the record leaves some uneasiness for some as far as successful pro team management goes.

 

Sure, I just think the talk from some about how he needs to go as part of cleaning house is often an overreaction; if the guy is good with the "business" side of thing and the McCaskeys are comfortable with him in that role then shifting him to that isn't a problem. It's not like a coach or management figure who can't (or, lets be realistic, almost always wouldn't) be shifted like that.

Yea, and it's not even a question of him meddling in the personnel decisions, but him being ultimately responsible for targeting the man who is. If this next hire fails again, is Phillips sharing the blame or is is Accorsis fault? He'll have had three hires using three different techniques. At a certain point you have to recognize even non-traditionally sports businessmen can do a better job picking the sports guys.

[jersey cubs fan]

There's the anti-Kenney talk that occurred when he was still the Pres and that which continued to occur after he was strictly a business guy and a bonafide "GM/Pres" who didn't report into him was brought in. One of these was quite a bit less reasonable than the other as far as complaints go. So to compare Phillips, he still is pre-Theo Kenney, and the record leaves some uneasiness for some as far as successful pro team management goes.

 

Sure, I just think the talk from some about how he needs to go as part of cleaning house is often an overreaction; if the guy is good with the "business" side of thing and the McCaskeys are comfortable with him in that role then shifting him to that isn't a problem. It's not like a coach or management figure who can't (or, lets be realistic, almost always wouldn't) be shifted like that.

Yea, and it's not even a question of him meddling in the personnel decisions, but him being ultimately responsible for targeting the man who is. If this next hire fails again, is Phillips sharing the blame or is is Accorsis fault? He'll have had three hires using three different techniques. At a certain point you have to recognize even non-traditionally sports businessmen can do a better job picking the sports guys.

 

I'd argue they did a fine job with the hire prior to Emery. Angelo and Lovie together built a very good football team. Lovie failed to fix the offense but that was hardly the fault of Ted.

 

If Ted is gone, does anybody think they will suddenly start making more informed football decisions at the Board level?

[mul21]

No, but the way the media is spinning this, it seems like the mere presence of Phillips is possibly causing highly qualified people to not want to be involved with the Bears. I have no idea if there's any truth to that whatsoever, but if there is, he needs to be gone regardless of whatever the hell it is Hub is referring to.

[Banedon]

@AdamHoge

 

#Bears sign former Rutgers DE Jamil Merrell to reserve/futures contract. He was on their practice squad.

 

@AdamHoge

 

Kevin Turks (Pro Personnel), Marty Barrett (College Scouting) & Cliff Stein (Football Admin) are handling #Bears roster right now, I'm told.

[jersey cubs fan]

No, but the way the media is spinning this, it seems like the mere presence of Phillips is possibly causing highly qualified people to not want to be involved with the Bears. I have no idea if there's any truth to that whatsoever, but if there is, he needs to be gone regardless of whatever the hell it is Hub is referring to.

 

I completely buy that people did not want to be involved in situations where you had to keep the head coach, or you had to use certain assistants. I do not buy that quality people are choosing to stay away from the Bears because of the presence of Ted Phillips. There has been no indication whatsoever that he is a meddler, that he has input on draft day or tries to go around people's backs. You read about that kind of nonsense with many teams out there, including Oakland, SF and to a lesser extent the Jets.

[Banedon]

No, but the way the media is spinning this, it seems like the mere presence of Phillips is possibly causing highly qualified people to not want to be involved with the Bears. I have no idea if there's any truth to that whatsoever, but if there is, he needs to be gone regardless of whatever the hell it is Hub is referring to.

 

I completely buy that people did not want to be involved in situations where you had to keep the head coach, or you had to use certain assistants. I do not buy that quality people are choosing to stay away from the Bears because of the presence of Ted Phillips. There has been no indication whatsoever that he is a meddler, that he has input on draft day or tries to go around people's backs. You read about that kind of nonsense with many teams out there, including Oakland, SF and to a lesser extent the Jets.

 

Maybe it's not Ted Phillips personally, but just that they don't like the organizational structure where they would have someone to report to between themselves and the owner?

[Sammy Sofa]

No, but the way the media is spinning this, it seems like the mere presence of Phillips is possibly causing highly qualified people to not want to be involved with the Bears. I have no idea if there's any truth to that whatsoever, but if there is, he needs to be gone regardless of whatever the hell it is Hub is referring to.

 

I completely buy that people did not want to be involved in situations where you had to keep the head coach, or you had to use certain assistants. I do not buy that quality people are choosing to stay away from the Bears because of the presence of Ted Phillips. There has been no indication whatsoever that he is a meddler, that he has input on draft day or tries to go around people's backs. You read about that kind of nonsense with many teams out there, including Oakland, SF and to a lesser extent the Jets.

 

Yup. If there was something there we would have heard about it. Hub is being the hackiest of hacks to try and imply otherwise, because it shows there's nothing to it, but he's still trying to dangle that plotline.

[Guest]

There's the anti-Kenney talk that occurred when he was still the Pres and that which continued to occur after he was strictly a business guy and a bonafide "GM/Pres" who didn't report into him was brought in. One of these was quite a bit less reasonable than the other as far as complaints go. So to compare Phillips, he still is pre-Theo Kenney, and the record leaves some uneasiness for some as far as successful pro team management goes.

 

Sure, I just think the talk from some about how he needs to go as part of cleaning house is often an overreaction; if the guy is good with the "business" side of thing and the McCaskeys are comfortable with him in that role then shifting him to that isn't a problem. It's not like a coach or management figure who can't (or, lets be realistic, almost always wouldn't) be shifted like that.

Yea, and it's not even a question of him meddling in the personnel decisions, but him being ultimately responsible for targeting the man who is. If this next hire fails again, is Phillips sharing the blame or is is Accorsis fault? He'll have had three hires using three different techniques. At a certain point you have to recognize even non-traditionally sports businessmen can do a better job picking the sports guys.

 

I'd argue they did a fine job with the hire prior to Emery. Angelo and Lovie together built a very good football team. Lovie failed to fix the offense but that was hardly the fault of Ted.

 

If Ted is gone, does anybody think they will suddenly start making more informed football decisions at the Board level?

They did have early success, but not sustained, and there was still quite a bit at Hatley footprint on the early Lovie teams.

 

ETA never mind a little less impact than I thought (basically Urlacher, Brown, Kreutz).

 

Anyways those early years of Angelo were great but I have a hard time looking at the entire result and saying it was a successful hiring.

[minnesotacubsfan]

possible fall out from the draft day crap a few years ago?

what did Phillips do on draft day?

 

Not Phillips, just the Bears...

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/19/john-harbaugh-says-the-bears-werent-ethical-on-draft-day/

 

I can't imagine a guy would refuse to go to the Bears because Jerry Angelo was a boob.

 

Yea, he would be gaining a lot, and Angelo just isn't around. That whole deal has to be i the past for Decosta

[Ryne Ween]

How many people work for the bears that aren't players coaches and scouts? Probably a ton. They have HR accounting facilities management sales marketing etc. it's a big business when take out the football. Perhaps knowing whee the bodies are buried is "having a clue what the non football operations even entail". If I owned an nfl team I would want nothing to do with the Ted Phillips stuff and if there was a ted Phillips in place I would hope he lives forever.

 

Somebody has to hire the football guy and can you really pay somebody a million bucks just to be a football guy who can hire the football guy.

[minnesotacubsfan]

There's the anti-Kenney talk that occurred when he was still the Pres and that which continued to occur after he was strictly a business guy and a bonafide "GM/Pres" who didn't report into him was brought in. One of these was quite a bit less reasonable than the other as far as complaints go. So to compare Phillips, he still is pre-Theo Kenney, and the record leaves some uneasiness for some as far as successful pro team management goes.

 

Sure, I just think the talk from some about how he needs to go as part of cleaning house is often an overreaction; if the guy is good with the "business" side of thing and the McCaskeys are comfortable with him in that role then shifting him to that isn't a problem. It's not like a coach or management figure who can't (or, lets be realistic, almost always wouldn't) be shifted like that.

Yea, and it's not even a question of him meddling in the personnel decisions, but him being ultimately responsible for targeting the man who is. If this next hire fails again, is Phillips sharing the blame or is is Accorsis fault? He'll have had three hires using three different techniques. At a certain point you have to recognize even non-traditionally sports businessmen can do a better job picking the sports guys.

 

I'd argue they did a fine job with the hire prior to Emery. Angelo and Lovie together built a very good football team. Lovie failed to fix the offense but that was hardly the fault of Ted.

 

If Ted is gone, does anybody think they will suddenly start making more informed football decisions at the Board level?

 

 

Is Ted that bad that it could only improve by subtraction?

[Wilson A2000]

Don't know why Marinelli was mad when Emery didn't go with his head coach recommendation. Rod wasn't the GM. Bears management thought that there was a chance the new GM or coach would keep him. Can't understand his hard feelings.

[minnesotacubsfan]

There's the anti-Kenney talk that occurred when he was still the Pres and that which continued to occur after he was strictly a business guy and a bonafide "GM/Pres" who didn't report into him was brought in. One of these was quite a bit less reasonable than the other as far as complaints go. So to compare Phillips, he still is pre-Theo Kenney, and the record leaves some uneasiness for some as far as successful pro team management goes.

 

Sure, I just think the talk from some about how he needs to go as part of cleaning house is often an overreaction; if the guy is good with the "business" side of thing and the McCaskeys are comfortable with him in that role then shifting him to that isn't a problem. It's not like a coach or management figure who can't (or, lets be realistic, almost always wouldn't) be shifted like that.

Yea, and it's not even a question of him meddling in the personnel decisions, but him being ultimately responsible for targeting the man who is. If this next hire fails again, is Phillips sharing the blame or is is Accorsis fault? He'll have had three hires using three different techniques. At a certain point you have to recognize even non-traditionally sports businessmen can do a better job picking the sports guys.

 

I'd argue they did a fine job with the hire prior to Emery. Angelo and Lovie together built a very good football team. Lovie failed to fix the offense but that was hardly the fault of Ted.

 

If Ted is gone, does anybody think they will suddenly start making more informed football decisions at the Board level?

They did have early success, but not sustained, and there was still quite a bit at Hatley footprint on the early Lovie teams.

 

ETA never mind a little less impact than I thought (basically Urlacher, Brown, Kreutz).

 

Anyways those early years of Angelo were great but I have a hard time looking at the entire result and saying it was a successful hiring.

 

Tommie Harris fell to them

Thomas Jones was essentially a reclaimation project

Grossman was an extreme need

 

 

And Angelo deeply ignored the OLine

 

Jerry really sucked