Heyward and Walden to the Cardinals for Miller and Jenkins

[RynoRules]

Heyward essentially replaces Taveres, doesn't he? That's one way to look at this - is Heyward likely to produce as well as Taveres might have?

 

heyward didn't also get into a car accident fyi

 

Didn't know that. Thanks.

[rawaction]

Theo had better pull a rabbit out of his hat because losing a player that projected absolutely perfectly for this team on that type of [expletive] package is inexcusable. If they want a pitcher then bring in a third team.

 

No, it's not.

 

Letting a team that is already better than you get significantly better for minimal cost isn't what I'd call good strategy. Especially when that same piece fits your own team really well.

 

It's also not a strategy. It's not like when they were talking LaStella/Vizcaino the Braves were like, "hey we got this deal in the works to make the Cards better....want to stop it?".

 

You don't LET a team get better. They get better because they have a GM doing the same thing your GM is doing, trying to get better. The Cubs don't even really match up all that well to what the Cards gave up.

[Rob]

Don't forget his descending OPS....

 

If you are correct that Heyward is one of the best players in baseball, then the Cards just pulled-off a historic heist at the level of Anderson-Bagwell, Mozeliak is an amazing GM, and John Hart is a schmuck.

 

Go home, you're drunk.

 

Heyward had the lowest strikeout rate of his career last year. It was his best OBP since his rookie year. He was one off his career high in SB while posting his best success rate so far. And he's the best defensive right fielder in baseball, by a pretty hefty margin. He's a great player.

 

This trade is pretty simple though. Heyward has one year left on his contract and seems determined to test free agency. The Braves aren't really contenders next year. So it's better to get something for him than nothing. The Cardinals gave up a combined 10 years of cost controlled young pitching, each with #2 potential. It's a pretty big haul for the Braves for a guy they couldn't keep.

 

John Hart is a schmuck, though.

[RynoRules]

Don't forget his descending OPS....

 

If you are correct that Heyward is one of the best players in baseball, then the Cards just pulled-off a historic heist at the level of Anderson-Bagwell, Mozeliak is an amazing GM, and John Hart is a schmuck.

 

Go home, you're drunk.

 

Heyward had the lowest strikeout rate of his career last year. It was his best OBP since his rookie year. He was one off his career high in SB while posting his best success rate so far. And he's the best defensive right fielder in baseball, by a pretty hefty margin. He's a great player.

 

This trade is pretty simple though. Heyward has one year left on his contract and seems determined to test free agency. The Braves aren't really contenders next year. So it's better to get something for him than nothing. The Cardinals gave up a combined 10 years of cost controlled young pitching, each with #2 potential. It's a pretty big haul for the Braves for a guy they couldn't keep.

 

John Hart is a schmuck, though.

 

If he's really Baseball Jesus and you are so sure that you aren't going to be able to keep him why not wait until the FA market thins-out or until the season starts to deal him? Wouldn't you be in a better position to get more for him?

 

BTW, he slugged .384 last season and posted his lowest OPS+ since his brutal 2011. I get that he's an excellent defensive RF'er, but that seems to be where the majority a significant amount of his value is based. He's not a good enough hitter to be considered "one of the best players in baseball" by any stretch.

 

So I'd suggest it is you who is drunk.

Edited November 17, 2014 by RynoRules

[Elrhino]

Don't forget his descending OPS....

 

If you are correct that Heyward is one of the best players in baseball, then the Cards just pulled-off a historic heist at the level of Anderson-Bagwell, Mozeliak is an amazing GM, and John Hart is a schmuck.

 

Go home, you're drunk.

 

Heyward had the lowest strikeout rate of his career last year. It was his best OBP since his rookie year. He was one off his career high in SB while posting his best success rate so far. And he's the best defensive right fielder in baseball, by a pretty hefty margin. He's a great player.

 

This trade is pretty simple though. Heyward has one year left on his contract and seems determined to test free agency. The Braves aren't really contenders next year. So it's better to get something for him than nothing. The Cardinals gave up a combined 10 years of cost controlled young pitching, each with #2 potential. It's a pretty big haul for the Braves for a guy they couldn't keep.

 

John Hart is a schmuck, though.

 

If he's really Baseball Jesus and you are so sure that you aren't going to be able to keep him why not wait until the FA market thins-out or until the season starts to deal him? Wouldn't you be in a better position to get more for him?

 

BTW, he slugged .384 last season and posted his lowest OPS+ since his brutal 2011. I get that he's an excellent defensive RF'er, but that seems to be where the majority of his value is based. He's not a good enough hitter to be considered "one of the best players in baseball" by any stretch.

 

So I'd suggest it is you who is drunk.

 

His contact and k rates have been improving for 3 straight years. He stole 20 out of 24 bases. If he regains his power (still just 25), he's an elite Superstar. If not, he'll just have to settle for being very, very good.

 

Can't speak as to why the Braves decided to move him when they did. They also have Justin Upton entering his final season who they might also be moving at the deadline. I'm sure the Stanton contract doesn't help.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Elrhino

[RynoRules]

Does anyone know or have an idea why his power numbers have plummeted like they have?

[Tracer Bullet]

Don't forget his descending OPS....

 

If you are correct that Heyward is one of the best players in baseball, then the Cards just pulled-off a historic heist at the level of Anderson-Bagwell, Mozeliak is an amazing GM, and John Hart is a schmuck.

 

Go home, you're drunk.

 

Heyward had the lowest strikeout rate of his career last year. It was his best OBP since his rookie year. He was one off his career high in SB while posting his best success rate so far. And he's the best defensive right fielder in baseball, by a pretty hefty margin. He's a great player.

 

This trade is pretty simple though. Heyward has one year left on his contract and seems determined to test free agency. The Braves aren't really contenders next year. So it's better to get something for him than nothing. The Cardinals gave up a combined 10 years of cost controlled young pitching, each with #2 potential. It's a pretty big haul for the Braves for a guy they couldn't keep.

 

John Hart is a schmuck, though.

 

If he's really Baseball Jesus and you are so sure that you aren't going to be able to keep him why not wait until the FA market thins-out or until the season starts to deal him? Wouldn't you be in a better position to get more for him?

 

BTW, he slugged .384 last season and posted his lowest OPS+ since his brutal 2011. I get that he's an excellent defensive RF'er, but that seems to be where the majority of his value is based. He's not a good enough hitter to be considered "one of the best players in baseball" by any stretch.

 

So I'd suggest it is you who is drunk.

 

you asked if a 22-year-old rookie would outperform a guy coming off his best OBP, with true GG defense, who averaged over 5-war the last 3 seasons. Might Taveras have been Mike Trout? Um, sure, maybe?

[Guest]

I'm good with Soler in right.

[Guest]

Don't forget his descending OPS....

 

If you are correct that Heyward is one of the best players in baseball, then the Cards just pulled-off a historic heist at the level of Anderson-Bagwell, Mozeliak is an amazing GM, and John Hart is a schmuck.

 

Go home, you're drunk.

 

Heyward had the lowest strikeout rate of his career last year. It was his best OBP since his rookie year. He was one off his career high in SB while posting his best success rate so far. And he's the best defensive right fielder in baseball, by a pretty hefty margin. He's a great player.

 

This trade is pretty simple though. Heyward has one year left on his contract and seems determined to test free agency. The Braves aren't really contenders next year. So it's better to get something for him than nothing. The Cardinals gave up a combined 10 years of cost controlled young pitching, each with #2 potential. It's a pretty big haul for the Braves for a guy they couldn't keep.

 

John Hart is a schmuck, though.

 

If he's really Baseball Jesus and you are so sure that you aren't going to be able to keep him why not wait until the FA market thins-out or until the season starts to deal him? Wouldn't you be in a better position to get more for him?

 

BTW, he slugged .384 last season and posted his lowest OPS+ since his brutal 2011. I get that he's an excellent defensive RF'er, but that seems to be where the majority of his value is based. He's not a good enough hitter to be considered "one of the best players in baseball" by any stretch.

 

So I'd suggest it is you who is drunk.

 

you asked if a 22-year-old rookie would outperform a guy coming off his best OBP, with true GG defense, who averaged over 5-war the last 3 seasons. Might Taveras have been Mike Trout? Um, sure, maybe?

Taveras was one of THE blue chip prospects whom scouts refused to rank lower than Bryant all year. It could have been close, Heyward doesn't give you much with the bat.

[Rob]

Don't forget his descending OPS....

 

If you are correct that Heyward is one of the best players in baseball, then the Cards just pulled-off a historic heist at the level of Anderson-Bagwell, Mozeliak is an amazing GM, and John Hart is a schmuck.

 

Go home, you're drunk.

 

Heyward had the lowest strikeout rate of his career last year. It was his best OBP since his rookie year. He was one off his career high in SB while posting his best success rate so far. And he's the best defensive right fielder in baseball, by a pretty hefty margin. He's a great player.

 

This trade is pretty simple though. Heyward has one year left on his contract and seems determined to test free agency. The Braves aren't really contenders next year. So it's better to get something for him than nothing. The Cardinals gave up a combined 10 years of cost controlled young pitching, each with #2 potential. It's a pretty big haul for the Braves for a guy they couldn't keep.

 

John Hart is a schmuck, though.

 

If he's really Baseball Jesus and you are so sure that you aren't going to be able to keep him why not wait until the FA market thins-out or until the season starts to deal him? Wouldn't you be in a better position to get more for him?

 

BTW, he slugged .384 last season and posted his lowest OPS+ since his brutal 2011. I get that he's an excellent defensive RF'er, but that seems to be where the majority a significant amount of his value is based. He's not a good enough hitter to be considered "one of the best players in baseball" by any stretch.

 

So I'd suggest it is you who is drunk.

 

Over the last 3 years, he has been the 13th best player in baseball. (2012 - 10th, 2013- 67th, 2014 - 25th)

 

I don't know what your criteria for "one of the best players in baseball" is, but I'm gonna guess it's more to do with an arbitrary gut feel than anything else.

[Guest]

I'm good with Soler in right.

[TruffleShuffle]

i'm not going to get bent out of shape about this. the cards get one cheap year of a very good player, and have to give up at the very least a guy who should be a solid mid-rotation pitcher for the next few years. i don't see any reason for heyward to give the cards a discount, so if they sign him long term this year, he's going to be making probably $20m a year for a long time. it's probably a deal that the braves had to make, to get something of value for heyward before he leaves, and a deal the cards had to make, given their massive hole in RF, a very good team right now, and a need to upgrade their offense.

[ChiCubsFan]

I'm good with Soler in right.

[gscool89]

Heyward isn't really that good, he's a taller, darker Darwin Barney. That being said, I hate Shelby Miller so probably a good deal for the Cards.

[TruffleShuffle]

Heyward isn't really that good, he's a taller, darker Darwin Barney.

 

just no.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fascinating-jason-heywardshelby-miller-swap/

 

Jason Heyward is a stud, and you don’t even have to buy into defensive metrics to agree with that statement. For 2015, Steamer projects him at +4.5 WAR per 600 plate appearances, the 16th highest total of any position player in baseball, and that’s with him grading out as just a slightly above average defender.

 

...

 

In other words, Steamer is projecting Heyward to take a big step back defensively and still be one of the best players in the game, because the forecast sees a 25 year old with a career 117 wRC+ and positive contact rate trends, so it thinks Heyward is on the verge of a big offensive breakout. From a purely offensive standpoint, Steamer expects Heyward to be as good (or slightly better than) the good Upton, Matt Kemp, Ryan Braun, or Hanley Ramirez. If you combine the offensive level of those players with above average defensive value, well, you’re left with a superstar.

[UMFan83]

Heyward isn't really that good, he's a taller, darker Darwin Barney. That being said, I hate Shelby Miller so probably a good deal for the Cards.

 

It's like you ignored the last 2 pages of discussion.

[mul21]

Lots of discussion about Heyward being a platoon guy with Grichuk on St. Louis sports radio this afternoon. Mozeliak also wouldn't answer a very straightforward question about it when asked. I would bet that if that happens it all but guarantees he doesn't stay here after this season.

[gscool89]

Heyward isn't really that good, he's a taller, darker Darwin Barney.

 

just no.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fascinating-jason-heywardshelby-miller-swap/

 

Jason Heyward is a stud, and you don’t even have to buy into defensive metrics to agree with that statement. For 2015, Steamer projects him at +4.5 WAR per 600 plate appearances, the 16th highest total of any position player in baseball, and that’s with him grading out as just a slightly above average defender.

 

...

 

In other words, Steamer is projecting Heyward to take a big step back defensively and still be one of the best players in the game, because the forecast sees a 25 year old with a career 117 wRC+ and positive contact rate trends, so it thinks Heyward is on the verge of a big offensive breakout. From a purely offensive standpoint, Steamer expects Heyward to be as good (or slightly better than) the good Upton, Matt Kemp, Ryan Braun, or Hanley Ramirez. If you combine the offensive level of those players with above average defensive value, well, you’re left with a superstar.

He's a platoon player that is really good in the outfield but has never lived up to his potential. Outside of his defense, there's really nothing impressive about him. Of course, he'll hit 35 homers this year because Cardinals.

[Tryptamine]

I've never seen a 5fWAR 26 year old get so much [expletive] as Heyward. Everyone loves the guy with an elite bat but average defense, but if it's elite defense and an average bat he's overrated and not that great.

[UMFan83]

Heyward isn't really that good, he's a taller, darker Darwin Barney.

 

just no.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fascinating-jason-heywardshelby-miller-swap/

 

Jason Heyward is a stud, and you don’t even have to buy into defensive metrics to agree with that statement. For 2015, Steamer projects him at +4.5 WAR per 600 plate appearances, the 16th highest total of any position player in baseball, and that’s with him grading out as just a slightly above average defender.

 

...

 

In other words, Steamer is projecting Heyward to take a big step back defensively and still be one of the best players in the game, because the forecast sees a 25 year old with a career 117 wRC+ and positive contact rate trends, so it thinks Heyward is on the verge of a big offensive breakout. From a purely offensive standpoint, Steamer expects Heyward to be as good (or slightly better than) the good Upton, Matt Kemp, Ryan Braun, or Hanley Ramirez. If you combine the offensive level of those players with above average defensive value, well, you’re left with a superstar.

He's a platoon player that is really good in the outfield but has never lived up to his potential. Outside of his defense, there's really nothing impressive about him. Of course, he'll hit 35 homers this year because Cardinals.

 

Are you just ignoring what is being posted when you reply? Truffle's post clearly outlined why you are completely wrong.

[XZero771679666304]

I've never seen a 5fWAR 26 year old get so much [expletive] as Heyward. Everyone loves the guy with an elite bat but average defense, but if it's elite defense and an average bat he's overrated and not that great.

 

I think it has to do with expectations many people had for him (that he was going to be an offensive beast) that have gone largely unfulfilled. Defense just isn't as sexy as big offense, especially from a corner. I don't agree with it, but I'd bet that has a lot to do with the negativity.

[Guest]

Heyward isn't really that good, he's a taller, darker Darwin Barney.

 

just no.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fascinating-jason-heywardshelby-miller-swap/

 

Jason Heyward is a stud, and you don’t even have to buy into defensive metrics to agree with that statement. For 2015, Steamer projects him at +4.5 WAR per 600 plate appearances, the 16th highest total of any position player in baseball, and that’s with him grading out as just a slightly above average defender.

 

...

 

In other words, Steamer is projecting Heyward to take a big step back defensively and still be one of the best players in the game, because the forecast sees a 25 year old with a career 117 wRC+ and positive contact rate trends, so it thinks Heyward is on the verge of a big offensive breakout. From a purely offensive standpoint, Steamer expects Heyward to be as good (or slightly better than) the good Upton, Matt Kemp, Ryan Braun, or Hanley Ramirez. If you combine the offensive level of those players with above average defensive value, well, you’re left with a superstar.

He's a platoon player that is really good in the outfield but has never lived up to his potential. Outside of his defense, there's really nothing impressive about him. Of course, he'll hit 35 homers this year because Cardinals.

 

Are you just ignoring what is being posted when you reply? Truffle's post clearly outlined why you are completely wrong.

 

The Cubs are going to have won the WS by October 19th next year?

 

And only 15 posts in the celebratory thread by noon of (presumably - at least) the next day?

Edited November 18, 2014 by David

[Tryptamine]

Heyward isn't really that good, he's a taller, darker Darwin Barney.

 

just no.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fascinating-jason-heywardshelby-miller-swap/

 

Jason Heyward is a stud, and you don’t even have to buy into defensive metrics to agree with that statement. For 2015, Steamer projects him at +4.5 WAR per 600 plate appearances, the 16th highest total of any position player in baseball, and that’s with him grading out as just a slightly above average defender.

 

...

 

In other words, Steamer is projecting Heyward to take a big step back defensively and still be one of the best players in the game, because the forecast sees a 25 year old with a career 117 wRC+ and positive contact rate trends, so it thinks Heyward is on the verge of a big offensive breakout. From a purely offensive standpoint, Steamer expects Heyward to be as good (or slightly better than) the good Upton, Matt Kemp, Ryan Braun, or Hanley Ramirez. If you combine the offensive level of those players with above average defensive value, well, you’re left with a superstar.

He's a platoon player that is really good in the outfield but has never lived up to his potential. Outside of his defense, there's really nothing impressive about him. Of course, he'll hit 35 homers this year because Cardinals.

 

Are you just ignoring what is being posted when you reply? Truffle's post clearly outlined why you are completely wrong.

 

The Cubs are going to have won the WS by October 19th next year?

 

And only 14 posts in the celebratory thread by noon of (presumably - at least) the next day?

 

The vast majority of the board didn't survive the Great Chicago Riots which wiped the once great city off the face of the map.

[TruffleShuffle]

I've never seen a 5fWAR 26 year old get so much [expletive] as Heyward. Everyone loves the guy with an elite bat but average defense, but if it's elite defense and an average bat he's overrated and not that great.

 

I think it has to do with expectations many people had for him (that he was going to be an offensive beast) that have gone largely unfulfilled. Defense just isn't as sexy as big offense, especially from a corner. I don't agree with it, but I'd bet that has a lot to do with the negativity.

 

plus a guy with elite defense and average offense is just not that good a player; offense is far more important than defense in player value. the bigger problem is that everyone sees his slugging percentage and thinks he's an average offensive player, which he isn't.

[UMFan83]

Heyward isn't really that good, he's a taller, darker Darwin Barney.

 

just no.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fascinating-jason-heywardshelby-miller-swap/

 

Jason Heyward is a stud, and you don’t even have to buy into defensive metrics to agree with that statement. For 2015, Steamer projects him at +4.5 WAR per 600 plate appearances, the 16th highest total of any position player in baseball, and that’s with him grading out as just a slightly above average defender.

 

...

 

In other words, Steamer is projecting Heyward to take a big step back defensively and still be one of the best players in the game, because the forecast sees a 25 year old with a career 117 wRC+ and positive contact rate trends, so it thinks Heyward is on the verge of a big offensive breakout. From a purely offensive standpoint, Steamer expects Heyward to be as good (or slightly better than) the good Upton, Matt Kemp, Ryan Braun, or Hanley Ramirez. If you combine the offensive level of those players with above average defensive value, well, you’re left with a superstar.

He's a platoon player that is really good in the outfield but has never lived up to his potential. Outside of his defense, there's really nothing impressive about him. Of course, he'll hit 35 homers this year because Cardinals.

 

Are you just ignoring what is being posted when you reply? Truffle's post clearly outlined why you are completely wrong.

 

The Cubs are going to have won the WS by October 19th next year?

 

And only 15 posts in the celebratory thread by noon of (presumably - at least) the next day?

 

It was just easier to use Oct 19.

 

And yeah most of the action is in the game thread. I just made a pointless celebratory post that wasn't needed.

 

In reality, I saw something on reddit about how to edit web pages using Java script and took a screen grab from the site and the top post only had one page so I couldn't edit it in.