Russell Martin

[rawaction]

Seems dissonant to me to simultaneously say that Martin won't get 5 years or won't get a big AAV and to say that he's clearly the better option than the guy who's already signed a market rate deal at a similar AAV a couple years ago. Martin is gonna get paid guys.

 

Oh, and I'd trade Wood in a millisecond for Montero. Not sure what Arizona wants to do with their rotation though.

 

You tend to know what you are talking about so I'm willing to listen. I just don't know what I'm missing on Montero. He WAS really good just a couple years ago, but can he get back to that? Does he even need to to be worth a guy like Wood AND the money he's going to make?

[Guest]

Seems dissonant to me to simultaneously say that Martin won't get 5 years or won't get a big AAV and to say that he's clearly the better option than the guy who's already signed a market rate deal at a similar AAV a couple years ago. Martin is gonna get paid guys.

 

Oh, and I'd trade Wood in a millisecond for Montero. Not sure what Arizona wants to do with their rotation though.

 

You tend to know what you are talking about so I'm willing to listen. I just don't know what I'm missing on Montero. He WAS really good just a couple years ago, but can he get back to that? Does he even need to to be worth a guy like Wood AND the money he's going to make?

 

You may value Wood a bit more than me is the big thing. I like Wood, but after this year we know we can't count on him to provide a high baseline of performance, which isn't great when you combine with his lack of ceiling. I think we'd be disappointed if he were any higher than 4th in next year's rotation, and maybe 5th depending on how much you personally like Hendricks, Turner, and Doubront(compare he and Wood the last few years, for example). So if Wood is part of the excess back end pitching options, that he's the most expensive one and a guy who can't be sent down are not trivial problems, and it makes sense that he'd be on the trade block or even a non-tender candidate if you're pessimistic. So clearing his salary and getting value in return is a plus, IMO.

 

As far as Montero goes, I've said it elsewhere, but he fits in very very well with the current roster. He and Castillo with their RHP/LHP mashing tendencies would be a big boon to the lineup, the lower playing time will help keep both fresh/healthy, and Montero would be playing a bit more which is nice because he's the superior defender. I don't know what a package that goes to Arizona looks like since I have no idea what they'd want, but they likely don't have a ton of payroll to work with so freeing the salary may be more important than maximizing the player return. Wood would be great for us because it's dealing from a glut of options and avoiding paying him 5-6 million at the same time, but no idea if that's what Arizona will be after.

[Guest]

Seems dissonant to me to simultaneously say that Martin won't get 5 years or won't get a big AAV and to say that he's clearly the better option than the guy who's already signed a market rate deal at a similar AAV a couple years ago. Martin is gonna get paid guys.

 

Oh, and I'd trade Wood in a millisecond for Montero. Not sure what Arizona wants to do with their rotation though.

Montero was two years younger when he signed that contract.

[Guest]

Seems dissonant to me to simultaneously say that Martin won't get 5 years or won't get a big AAV and to say that he's clearly the better option than the guy who's already signed a market rate deal at a similar AAV a couple years ago. Martin is gonna get paid guys.

 

Oh, and I'd trade Wood in a millisecond for Montero. Not sure what Arizona wants to do with their rotation though.

Montero was two years younger when he signed that contract.

 

He also wasn't a free agent and signed that deal when the value of a win was markedly lower.

[Sammy Sofa]

One the one hand, what TT says is sound and logical. On the other hand...ENOUGH OF YOUR BORAX, POINDEXTER. If they know they can afford Martin and still spend elsewhere I'd be pretty excited with them signing him. Edited November 6, 2014 by Sammy Sofa

[Guest]

Seems dissonant to me to simultaneously say that Martin won't get 5 years or won't get a big AAV and to say that he's clearly the better option than the guy who's already signed a market rate deal at a similar AAV a couple years ago. Martin is gonna get paid guys.

 

Oh, and I'd trade Wood in a millisecond for Montero. Not sure what Arizona wants to do with their rotation though.

Montero was two years younger when he signed that contract.

 

He also wasn't a free agent and signed that deal when the value of a win was markedly lower.

Montero has had back issues, which is particularly bad for a catcher. Those back issues started in 2013 when his production dropped.

 

That decline in his production since 2012 has been fairly severe, even against righties. It's hard to call a guy with a combined .728 OPS in his favorable platoon split to be someone who "mashes" right handed pitching. Over that same timeframe Martin has a .793 OPS against righties. Heck, Castillo himself is at .696.

 

You're paying a lot of money (and however much talent in the trade) to get a .032 boost in production against right handers.

 

btw - Martin has a pretty severe reverse platoon split over the past two years. A smart manager could just use him a platoon with Welington.

[Deeg]

It's pure fantasy to think Martin can be had for 3 years. I think the critical issue for the Cubs - and not just them - will be whether he can be had for 4.

[Guest]

Seems dissonant to me to simultaneously say that Martin won't get 5 years or won't get a big AAV and to say that he's clearly the better option than the guy who's already signed a market rate deal at a similar AAV a couple years ago. Martin is gonna get paid guys.

 

Oh, and I'd trade Wood in a millisecond for Montero. Not sure what Arizona wants to do with their rotation though.

 

I just think a lot of the same things we're talking about here are going to deflate his value on the market a little bit. Maybe I'm totally off base (you make good points about Montero getting his contract a couple years ago), but it seems like the consensus out there (and I know you shouldn't glean much from that - it's just the sense I'm getting be it from reporters, Twitter, boards, etc.) is that even the 4/60 is way too much for him (like OMGZ YOU'RE GIVING A 32 YEAR OLD CATCHER $60M??!), which I think is pretty, uh, shaky, at best, but it's a sentiment that seems to be all over the place. I think there's a pretty decent chance of getting surplus value out of such a contract, and I'd even be willing to go a few smidges higher.

[Guest]

Cubs have reportedly met with Martin already

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/11/07/source-cubs-have-met-with-russell-martin/

 

The Cubs have wasted little time in their pursuit of becoming a contending team in 2015. After hiring veteran manager Joe Maddon on Monday, the team rolled out the red carpet in a meeting with free agent catcher Russell Martin on Thursday, according to an MLB source.‬

Martin is considered one of the top catchers in the game and will have further serious conversations with four teams, including the Cubs, according to industry sources. The Pirates, Martin’s most recent club, and the Dodgers are known to be two of the other teams that Martin and his agent will visit with.

The Cubs are believed to be pursuing veteran starting pitching to augment their youthful mix that has begun to develop under pitching coach Chris Bosio and his support staff. Left-hander Jon Lester is the top pitching target for the Cubs.

 

 

 

Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 2m2 minutes ago

Confirmed: #Cubs met with Russell Martin this week, as @MLBBruceLevine reported.

[Guest]

Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 3m3 minutes ago

Russell Martin market, per @MLBBruceLevine: #Pirates, #Dodgers, #Cubs, #BlueJays.

[jersey cubs fan]

Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 3m3 minutes ago

Russell Martin market, per @MLBBruceLevine: #Pirates, #Dodgers, #Cubs, #BlueJays.

you link to the article that bruce levine tells us what teams are in, then 45 minutes later link to a tweet that quotes Levine about what those teams are? Are you trying to fill a quota?

[Guest]

Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 3m3 minutes ago

Russell Martin market, per @MLBBruceLevine: #Pirates, #Dodgers, #Cubs, #BlueJays.

you link to the article that bruce levine tells us what teams are in, then 45 minutes later link to a tweet that quotes Levine about what those teams are? Are you trying to fill a quota?

 

The Levine article did not have the 4th team at the time. Maybe it's been updated since, but I didn't look at it. I was posting it because it named the Blue Jays.

[jersey cubs fan]

Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 3m3 minutes ago

Russell Martin market, per @MLBBruceLevine: #Pirates, #Dodgers, #Cubs, #BlueJays.

you link to the article that bruce levine tells us what teams are in, then 45 minutes later link to a tweet that quotes Levine about what those teams are? Are you trying to fill a quota?

 

The Levine article did not have the 4th team at the time. Maybe it's been updated since, but I didn't look at it. I was posting it because it named the Blue Jays.

 

it named the blue jays the first time.

[Guest]

Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 3m3 minutes ago

Russell Martin market, per @MLBBruceLevine: #Pirates, #Dodgers, #Cubs, #BlueJays.

you link to the article that bruce levine tells us what teams are in, then 45 minutes later link to a tweet that quotes Levine about what those teams are? Are you trying to fill a quota?

 

The Levine article did not have the 4th team at the time. Maybe it's been updated since, but I didn't look at it. I was posting it because it named the Blue Jays.

 

it named the blue jays the first time.

 

No, it didn't.

[MWV]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

[Banedon]

http://img.pandawhale.com/78374-rachel-monica-friends-catfight-3dyA.gif

[Sammy Sofa]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/b44f02ffa5eebff4a41cf208841822d9/tumblr_mm2qrh92vf1s2kphzo1_400.gif

[Guest]

Cotillo is saying the Rangers might also be involved now

[Tyrant]

Cotillo is saying the Rangers might also be involved now

 

cool

[Guest]

lol arguello "reported" that his "sources" said the cubs didn't have interest in Martin like 10 minutes before olney's initial thing came out which (i think) was the first of this flurry of martin/cubs stuff, and i can't find that initial post now...just the one that followed it refuting the "strong" interest.

 

now this

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2014/11/offseason-rumor-thread-cubs-meet-with-martin-cubs-den-free-agent-contest-minor-league-free-agents/

 

(John): Just wanted to chime in on this. I've heard the Cubs plan to be competitive here as Martin is a player they'd like to sign. That said, you know my feeling about going too high on Martin. I don't think they want a bidding war with the Dodgers but LA is a bit of an unknown now with Friedman at the helm. If it were last year we could count on the Dodgers paying whatever it took but Friedman has always been about getting good value, so we're in uncharted territory at this stage. I think the Cubs wan to sign Martin but I also think they won't go past a certain, pre-determined point. What that point is and whether that will be enough remains to be seen.

[tfarks]

That hard-hitting analysis makes me wonder if I'm smarter than I give myself credit for.

[SouthSideRyan]

lol arguello "reported" that his "sources" said the cubs didn't have interest in Martin like 10 minutes before olney's initial thing came out which (i think) was the first of this flurry of martin/cubs stuff, and i can't find that initial post now...just the one that followed it refuting the "strong" interest.

 

now this

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2014/11/offseason-rumor-thread-cubs-meet-with-martin-cubs-den-free-agent-contest-minor-league-free-agents/

 

(John): Just wanted to chime in on this. I've heard the Cubs plan to be competitive here as Martin is a player they'd like to sign. That said, you know my feeling about going too high on Martin. I don't think they want a bidding war with the Dodgers but LA is a bit of an unknown now with Friedman at the helm. If it were last year we could count on the Dodgers paying whatever it took but Friedman has always been about getting good value, so we're in uncharted territory at this stage. I think the Cubs wan to sign Martin but I also think they won't go past a certain, pre-determined point. What that point is and whether that will be enough remains to be seen.

 

What the pre-determined point is doesn't matter!!!

[Guest]

lol arguello "reported" that his "sources" said the cubs didn't have interest in Martin like 10 minutes before olney's initial thing came out which (i think) was the first of this flurry of martin/cubs stuff, and i can't find that initial post now...just the one that followed it refuting the "strong" interest.

 

now this

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2014/11/offseason-rumor-thread-cubs-meet-with-martin-cubs-den-free-agent-contest-minor-league-free-agents/

 

(John): Just wanted to chime in on this. I've heard the Cubs plan to be competitive here as Martin is a player they'd like to sign. That said, you know my feeling about going too high on Martin. I don't think they want a bidding war with the Dodgers but LA is a bit of an unknown now with Friedman at the helm. If it were last year we could count on the Dodgers paying whatever it took but Friedman has always been about getting good value, so we're in uncharted territory at this stage. I think the Cubs wan to sign Martin but I also think they won't go past a certain, pre-determined point. What that point is and whether that will be enough remains to be seen.

 

What the pre-determined point is doesn't matter!!!

 

hahahahahaha

[Guest]

Mooney says there's mutual interest

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-heading-gm-meetings-targeting-russell-martin

 

The Cubs are going to keep making aggressive moves. General manager Jed Hoyer would neither confirm nor deny a WSCR-AM 670 report that had the team meeting with Martin on Thursday, but multiple industry sources have described mutual interest and suggested the All-Star catcher is a primary target this offseason.

 

Martin’s agency has an office in downtown Chicago. MCA can market a client who’s been to the playoffs seven times in the last nine years with the Dodgers, New York Yankees and Pittsburgh Pirates.

 

Martin — who finished with a .402 on-base percentage and became a Gold Glove finalist this year — will be a hot name during next week’s GM meetings at the Arizona Biltmore.

 

“We’re looking for any area that we can upgrade,” Hoyer said Friday on a conference call with beat writers. “We want veteran leadership on the team, whether that’s one person or whether that’s three or four people. So if we can find that combination of attributes, I think that’s something that would be appealing.”

[Guest]

somebody get me excited about russell martin without talking about pitch framing