College Football - Bowl Games

[stuy119]

To paraphrase you, anyone that definitively says A&M's 2012 season would've played out the exact same way it did if they had played a completely different schedule is dumb.

 

Im not really saying this, obviously there are a billion variables. My point was in reaction to the poster who cited sumlin not making a BCS. I said making a BCS out of the SEC is more difficult than any other conference and posited that A&M would have made it out of any other conference last year. Does anybody actually disagree with either?

 

The BCS rankings are an attempt to force rank all the teams from all the conferences against each other. 10 teams get BCS slots but only 2 from the SEC, despite the fact that routinely 4-5 teams from the SEC are in the top 10 of the BCS rankings.

 

You can argue, and i think you did, that there is an institutional bias that benefits the SEC teams in all the rankings, which is true. But since, within the context of the BCS, A&M (or any other SEC team) is really only competing against other SEC teams, the bias doesnt come into play.

 

The ACC is the first conference to send 11 teams to bowls. They had to play against each other, like every other conference, including the SEC. They are the first conference to do this in the history of CFB.

 

Get back to me when the SEC has that kind of depth.

[Formerly Snayke]

The ACC's second-best team lost by 14 points to the SEC's fourth-best team.

[stuy119]

The ACC's second-best team lost by 14 points to the SEC's fourth-best team.

 

Believe me, I hate the ACC and their basketball-loving, crapfest of a conference that refuses to dedicate any resources to football to contend with the SEC. I feel dirty even attempting to support them in any way, shape or form.

 

But I do feel the need to SEC bash, because that conference isn't as great (especially this year) as people make it out to be.

[Ryne Ween]

By "routinely" you mean "twice in history", right?

 

Here is the last 4 years.

 

2013 - 4

2012 - 5

2011 - 4

2010 - 3

 

And remember Sumlin's been around for only the last two. The argument may have gone a to a different place. I dont think the SEC is that great. Its the best conference because its best at the top. I agree that the depth is not there and I agree they dont play tough OOC (exceptions exist). But I was saying that its toughest to get into a BCS game from the SEC because no other conference has as many really good teams at the top.

 

And people should stop using A&M and Mizzou's success as a counterpoint to SEC dominance. Those teams arent Big 12 anymore. They are SEC teams now, the SEC plucked two good programs from the Big 12 and made itself a stronger conference and made the Big 12 weaker. The success they are having in the SEC is not a boon for the big 12.

[mul21]

By "routinely" you mean "twice in history", right?

 

Here is the last 4 years.

 

2013 - 4

2012 - 5

2011 - 4

2010 - 3

 

And remember Sumlin's been around for only the last two. The argument may have gone a to a different place. I dont think the SEC is that great. Its the best conference because its best at the top. I agree that the depth is not there and I agree they dont play tough OOC (exceptions exist). But I was saying that its toughest to get into a BCS game from the SEC because no other conference has as many really good teams at the top.

 

And people should stop using A&M and Mizzou's success as a counterpoint to SEC dominance. Those teams arent Big 12 anymore. They are SEC teams now, the SEC plucked two good programs from the Big 12 and made itself a stronger conference and made the Big 12 weaker. The success they are having in the SEC is not a boon for the big 12.

 

Um, yeah, it really is. Those teams haven't had some crazy uptick in recruiting since moving to the SEC (not that it would have made a huge difference yet anyway) and have more than held their own in the SEC after being good, but not great, B12 teams. It's not like they were both running through the B12 undefeated every year and are suddenly scraping to 3 loss seasons now. They're doing about as well in the SEC as they did in the B12.

[Old Style]

By "routinely" you mean "twice in history", right?

 

Here is the last 4 years.

 

2013 - 4

2012 - 5

2011 - 4

2010 - 3

 

And remember Sumlin's been around for only the last two. The argument may have gone a to a different place. I dont think the SEC is that great. Its the best conference because its best at the top. I agree that the depth is not there and I agree they dont play tough OOC (exceptions exist). But I was saying that its toughest to get into a BCS game from the SEC because no other conference has as many really good teams at the top.

 

And people should stop using A&M and Mizzou's success as a counterpoint to SEC dominance. Those teams arent Big 12 anymore. They are SEC teams now, the SEC plucked two good programs from the Big 12 and made itself a stronger conference and made the Big 12 weaker. The success they are having in the SEC is not a boon for the big 12.

 

Um, yeah, it really is. Those teams haven't had some crazy uptick in recruiting since moving to the SEC (not that it would have made a huge difference yet anyway) and have more than held their own in the SEC after being good, but not great, B12 teams. It's not like they were both running through the B12 undefeated every year and are suddenly scraping to 3 loss seasons now. They're doing about as well in the SEC as they did in the B12.

I can't speak for Missouri but A&M's recruiting has been markedly better since the move to the SEC. Now that happened to coincide with the Sumlin hire (which also explains why we were more successful in our first year in the SEC than we were in the last year of the Big 12) but we are definitely recruiting on a different level now. When questioned about why they chose A&M almost every single recruit I've seen mentioned the opportunity to play in the SEC as one of the deciding factors.

[bukie]

By "routinely" you mean "twice in history", right?

 

Here is the last 4 years.

 

2013 - 4

2012 - 5

2011 - 4

2010 - 3

 

And remember Sumlin's been around for only the last two. The argument may have gone a to a different place. I dont think the SEC is that great. Its the best conference because its best at the top. I agree that the depth is not there and I agree they dont play tough OOC (exceptions exist). But I was saying that its toughest to get into a BCS game from the SEC because no other conference has as many really good teams at the top.

 

And people should stop using A&M and Mizzou's success as a counterpoint to SEC dominance. Those teams arent Big 12 anymore. They are SEC teams now, the SEC plucked two good programs from the Big 12 and made itself a stronger conference and made the Big 12 weaker. The success they are having in the SEC is not a boon for the big 12.

 

2010 - 2: http://bcscentral.info/h/2010/bcs_rankings.html

 

This season isn't over yet, either.

 

The success Missouri and A&M are having right away in the SEC should show that the SEC isn't some mammoth obstacle that other schools can never hope to ascend. Two decent Big 12 programs are decent in the SEC just the same. That should have dispelled the myth that a middling SEC team would win any other conference, but the SEC fan's hubris somehow thinks that just putting the SEC name on Missouri and Texas A&M magically made them better.

[Formerly Snayke]

The theory is that Missouri is a much different team than they were in the Big 12. TT or Butters or someone else who watches more Mizzou games might know this, but the narrative I've read is that Missouri decided to become a more run-based offense, which coincided with their improvement. But, the improvement from 2012 to 2013 could be just as much attributed to James Franklin, Henry Josey and the offensive line all being far more healthy rather than a great philosophical change.

[Ryne Ween]

By "routinely" you mean "twice in history", right?

 

Here is the last 4 years.

 

2013 - 4

2012 - 5

2011 - 4

2010 - 3

 

And remember Sumlin's been around for only the last two. The argument may have gone a to a different place. I dont think the SEC is that great. Its the best conference because its best at the top. I agree that the depth is not there and I agree they dont play tough OOC (exceptions exist). But I was saying that its toughest to get into a BCS game from the SEC because no other conference has as many really good teams at the top.

 

And people should stop using A&M and Mizzou's success as a counterpoint to SEC dominance. Those teams arent Big 12 anymore. They are SEC teams now, the SEC plucked two good programs from the Big 12 and made itself a stronger conference and made the Big 12 weaker. The success they are having in the SEC is not a boon for the big 12.

 

2010 - 2: http://bcscentral.info/h/2010/bcs_rankings.html

 

This season isn't over yet, either.

 

The success Missouri and A&M are having right away in the SEC should show that the SEC isn't some mammoth obstacle that other schools can never hope to ascend. Two decent Big 12 programs are decent in the SEC just the same. That should have dispelled the myth that a middling SEC team would win any other conference, but the SEC fan's hubris somehow thinks that just putting the SEC name on Missouri and Texas A&M magically made them better.

 

I gave you the rankings after the season prior to the bowls. You gotta realize I am arguing that its hardest to make a BCS bowl out of the SEC than the other conferences.

 

I realize that you do not like the SEC and I think that your passion is great. But A&M and Mizzou made the SEC stronger and the Big 12 weaker. Thats what actually happened.

 

And I agree that the chasm between the SEC and everybody else is not as wide as most seem to believe. But lets be honest here. Mizzou is 9-8 in SEC conference play. They have been good, better than expected. Im not ready to use them as proof that the SEC isnt still the best conference. Just as easily as you can cite them winning the east as a reason why the SEC blows, somebody else could say their team improved and they caught the right schedule and the right time.

 

And A&M had a new coach and a great player. And when A&M last year played the 2nd best team in the Big 12 they abused them. So im not sure that A&M didnt improve and Im not sold on Mizzou as a perennial conference contender.

[Old Style]

The theory is that Missouri is a much different team than they were in the Big 12. TT or Butters or someone else who watches more Mizzou games might know this, but the narrative I've read is that Missouri decided to become a more run-based offense, which coincided with their improvement. But, the improvement from 2012 to 2013 could be just as much attributed to James Franklin, Henry Josey and the offensive line all being far more healthy rather than a great philosophical change.

A&M was a completely different team from the last year of the Big 12 to the first year of the SEC. Manziel & Sumlin would have rolled through the Big 12 last year. Look at what we did to OU in the Cotton Bowl.

[SouthSideRyan]

And people should stop using A&M and Mizzou's success as a counterpoint to SEC dominance. Those teams arent Big 12 anymore.

 

As tedious as this is becoming, this is just fantastic.

[OleMissCub]

Saban staying. Booooo

[Old Style]

But Chip Brown said...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Old Style]

http://hastexashirednicksabanyet.com/

 

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2013/12/13/5209322/nsfw-its-meltdown-time-mack-brown-stays-special-edition#

[Guest]

Mt. Union up on my Alma Mater North Central in the D3 semis, 13-10, but a good game. It's on ESPN3.

[WrigleyField 22]

Mt. Union up on my Alma Mater North Central in the D3 semis, 13-10, but a good game. It's on ESPN3.

Damn, went up and just threw a pick 6.

[Guest]

It's a wonder that they don't just skip the playoffs and let Mount Union and UW-Whitewater play for the championship to save everyone a bunch of time.

[WrigleyField 22]

NCC making this a great game!

[Guest]

Mt Union won by a [expletive] point

[WrigleyField 22]

Mt Union won by a [expletive] point

All those PATs come back to bite NCC. Would have been sweet, but NCC has become a pretty dominant D3 team over the past several years so I'm sure we haven't seen the last from them. Great game though, gonna have to re-watch later.

[NOLA]

It's the same smug sense of SEC superiority that had people predicting Missouri to finish 14th in the SEC 3 games into this season. Because they were new, they couldn't possibly keep up with the rigors of the SEC schedule.

 

I assume you're referring to me because I was the one that said that about Mizzou. Your "logic" is a little faulty there. I was dead wrong about Mizzou, but I also stated that I thought Auburn would be really bad this year, and they're one of the flagship teams in the SEC.

The only reason I ever talk up the conference is when guys on here pick every opportunity possible to rail on them. If you want the SEC to stop winning titles, then somebody needs to beat them on the damn field for once. Or maybe Ohio St should've taken care of business against MSU.

For the record, I think the Noles are going to beat the crap out of Auburn. Something like 45-31.

[shnsajax]

And now Mack Brown is done. This [expletive] show is finally over.

[Guest]

So Mack Brown pulled a Bob Kelso? Fantastic.

[SouthSideRyan]

Illinois will take him

 

ETA: Although the image of Mack Brown wolfing down muffins as he takes potshots at Art Briles is tempting.

[Guest]