Week 13 - Bears (6-5) at Minnesota (2-8-1) - 12:00 PM, FOX

[Old Style]

I'd look to pick up speed WR to stick in the slot in the 2nd or 3rd but i'd be looking defense pretty much everywhere else.

 

Maybe an OL somewhere later but the defense really needs the attention...the offense is so solid and I don't see a ton of places to add (TE depth, as raw noted, and a 3rd WR...and you're always looking to develop OL).

When do we start looking for a Garza replacement?

[Guest]

I'd look to pick up speed WR to stick in the slot in the 2nd or 3rd but i'd be looking defense pretty much everywhere else.

 

Maybe an OL somewhere later but the defense really needs the attention...the offense is so solid and I don't see a ton of places to add (TE depth, as raw noted, and a 3rd WR...and you're always looking to develop OL).

When do we start looking for a Garza replacement?

 

 

That's the main thing I was thinking of with drafting OL. Or maybe Slauson moves there and James Brown to LG or something?

[UMFan83]

unnamed Vikings player on the decision to kick on 2nd down:

 

“We were like, ‘What the hell are they doing,’” one Vikings team member said. “They were moving the ball there. We thought he was going to make the kick, but we were done there. They could have done pretty much whatever they wanted.”

[RynoRules]

I completely understand the frustration at losing this game, but the notion that Trestman is to blame doesn't ring true to me.

 

Gould had just barely missed a 66 yard kick a few minutes prior. He makes 47-yard kicks for breakfast. He's arguably the best kicker in history when you consider where he plays half his games. Getting him an extra 4 or 5 yards (maybe less) closer might have made a small difference statistically, but I'd bet the chances of a turnover or penalty were higher. Point is, Gould missed the kick, and that sort of [expletive] happens.

 

Here's why I like Trestman:

 

- the offense is measurably better statistically

- the offense is a [expletive] ton better from any subjective perspective

- the team appears to play as hard for him as they did Lovie

 

I don't blame Trestman for the defensive woes. He inherited a very old group that has been without three of its four best players (Melton, Briggs and Tilman) for the majority of the season. He's playing rookies and off-the-street FA's all over the field. Bill Bellichick went through a similar deal a couple of years ago and it showed in how his defense played. Point is it happens to the best of them.

 

You want to blame Emery? Ok, have at it. If they address the issue during offseason and the defense still sucks in 2014, I'd definitely be more likely to look towards Trestman and Tucker. In the meantime it just doesn't make sense to me to blame them.

Edited December 2, 2013 by RynoRules

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He makes 47-yard kicks for breakfast.

 

This is where it all falls apart: Even Robbie Gould isn't *that* good at 47-yard kicks, hot streak or not. Moving up another 5-10 yards makes a *huge* difference in his accuracy rates.

 

And throw in the fact that a tie was just as good for the Bears, so you had a chance to run more time off the clock and make it harder for the Vikings to score if something did go wrong.

[rawaction]

I completely understand the frustration at losing this game, but the notion that Trestman is to blame doesn't ring true to me.

 

Gould had just barely missed a 66 yard kick a few minutes prior. He makes 47-yard kicks for breakfast. He's arguably the best kicker in history when you consider where he plays half his games. Getting him an extra 4 or 5 yards (maybe less) closer might have made a small difference statistically, but I'd bet the chances of a turnover or penalty were higher. Point is, Gould missed the kick, and that sort of [expletive] happens.

 

That's BS. You only kick a FG on 2nd down ever if the time is running out or it's a chip shot. 47-yards out isn't the time to do that. If you're scared of a fumble or penalty, then why aren't you kicking FGs on 2nd down every time you get in range? If you're scared of a fumble from a guy that gets 25 touches a game, then maybe that guy (Forte) shouldn't be getting those touches. If you get a penalty, you still have 1-2 downs to at least get back to where you're kicking it from by throwing it to one of your 6'3+ WRs, including the guy who broke the team record for receiving yards twice and the guy who broke every single season receiving record the team has.

 

It was stupid. Everyone on here thought so, and apparently the other damn team did too.

[JonJayCutler]

And throw in the fact that if Gould kicks the same kick 2 or 3 yards further up it probably sneaks in the right upright.

[jersey cubs fan]

I completely understand the frustration at losing this game, but the notion that Trestman is to blame doesn't ring true to me.

 

Gould had just barely missed a 66 yard kick a few minutes prior. He makes 47-yard kicks for breakfast. He's arguably the best kicker in history when you consider where he plays half his games. Getting him an extra 4 or 5 yards (maybe less) closer might have made a small difference statistically, but I'd bet the chances of a turnover or penalty were higher. Point is, Gould missed the kick, and that sort of [expletive] happens.

 

That is just a whole bunch of wrong. He didn't barely miss a 66-yarder, that was caught in the end zone easily because it was way short. Gould is good, but he's not perfect. He is 65-90 in his career from 40-49 yards. He misses a couple of those every season and the fact that he had not missed one before yesterday doesn't mean he was done missing them. If it's 4th down, you kick it, but it wasn't 4th down and they could have gotten closer. Just like they could have done something more than gain one lousy yard at the end of regulation when attempting the 66-yard nonsense that never should have been attempted.

[mul21]

I'd look to pick up speed WR to stick in the slot in the 2nd or 3rd but i'd be looking defense pretty much everywhere else.

 

Maybe an OL somewhere later but the defense really needs the attention...the offense is so solid and I don't see a ton of places to add (TE depth, as raw noted, and a 3rd WR...and you're always looking to develop OL).

 

This is exactly what I'd like to see them do.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Knowing the accuracy rates on 45-50 yd kicks is a huge dip compared with just a little closer is exactly the sort of thing I expect Trestman to know. Just trusting his kicker because he's been hot lately is what I'd expect from a dumber coach.

[rawaction]

And everyone says the defense is old. Age is not an excuse. Until Ratliff suited up yesterday, everyone that played DT for the Bears this season has been under 27. Hell, Peppers is the only player on the entire DL over 27 (until Ratliff). Both safeties who have played terribly are under 26. The nickel back playing over 1/2 the snaps is basically a rookie. The LBs that started the season were all over 30, but 2 of them were on 1 year deals. Not like they were "inherited". The CBs starting the year were both 30+, but both coming off the best seasons of their careers and neither has/had played anywhere near poorly.

 

Maybe the best players being the old ones is a concern, but there was no reason to believe the safeties would be this bad. Or that the DTs would drop like flies. I think most people were OK with Wright, Conte, Wootton, Paea, and Melton in the starting lineup (5 of the 11 starters), with Bostic waiting in the wings.

[RynoRules]

Not me. I was concerned as early as last season, and I probably said as much here. The defense is old and the safeties have sucked for years. Aside from Wooten, the younger players were unproven, inconsistent or outright bad.

 

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

And by the way, just because "everyone" shares a similar opinion doesn't mean it's correct.

Edited December 2, 2013 by RynoRules

[Guest]

I'd look to pick up speed WR to stick in the slot in the 2nd or 3rd but i'd be looking defense pretty much everywhere else.

 

Maybe an OL somewhere later but the defense really needs the attention...the offense is so solid and I don't see a ton of places to add (TE depth, as raw noted, and a 3rd WR...and you're always looking to develop OL).

 

This is exactly what I'd like to see them do.

 

Assuming most of the juniors turn pro, this is a good draft for WR. There are 3 dynamic TEs too.

 

I'd look to pick up speed WR to stick in the slot in the 2nd or 3rd but i'd be looking defense pretty much everywhere else.

 

Maybe an OL somewhere later but the defense really needs the attention...the offense is so solid and I don't see a ton of places to add (TE depth, as raw noted, and a 3rd WR...and you're always looking to develop OL).

When do we start looking for a Garza replacement?

 

 

That's the main thing I was thinking of with drafting OL. Or maybe Slauson moves there and James Brown to LG or something?

 

Gotta replace Garza ASAP.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

https://twitter.com/ScottLindholm/status/407506999937482753/photo/1/large

 

Robbie Gould is 72% in his career from 40-49, and 91% from 30-39. One more first down made a huge difference.

[Banedon]

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

https://twitter.com/ScottLindholm/status/407506999937482753/photo/1/large

 

Robbie Gould is 72% in his career from 40-49, and 91% from 30-39. One more first down made a huge difference.

 

It seems like he's been a lot better from long distance in the past couple of years though. I'd like to see that stat breakdown for just the last 2 years.

[jersey cubs fan]

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

No, we can't. Because there is no argument in support of doing what they did. It was stupid and indefensible.

[RynoRules]

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

https://twitter.com/ScottLindholm/status/407506999937482753/photo/1/large

 

Robbie Gould is 72% in his career from 40-49, and 91% from 30-39. One more first down made a huge difference.

 

I see your point, but now we are talking about getting another 8 yards, which very likely requires two more plays from scrimmage, thus doubling the risk of a turnover, penalty. etc. I don't think it's a bad argument, I just think it isn't as obvious as some here are portraying it to be.

[Banedon]

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

https://twitter.com/ScottLindholm/status/407506999937482753/photo/1/large

 

Robbie Gould is 72% in his career from 40-49, and 91% from 30-39. One more first down made a huge difference.

 

I see your point, but now we are talking about getting another 8 yards, which very likely requires two more plays from scrimmage, thus doubling the risk of a turnover, penalty. etc. I don't think it's a bad argument, I just think it isn't as obvious as some here are portraying it to be.

 

Why does it have to take 2 more plays? If you don't get the 8 yards, then take the long kick.

[RynoRules]

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

https://twitter.com/ScottLindholm/status/407506999937482753/photo/1/large

 

Robbie Gould is 72% in his career from 40-49, and 91% from 30-39. One more first down made a huge difference.

 

I see your point, but now we are talking about getting another 8 yards, which very likely requires two more plays from scrimmage, thus doubling the risk of a turnover, penalty. etc. I don't think it's a bad argument, I just think it isn't as obvious as some here are portraying it to be.

 

Why does it have to take 2 more plays? If you don't get the 8 yards, then take the long kick.

 

47 - 39 = 8.

 

Kyle's point seems to have been that 8 more yards significantly improves Gould's chances.

Edited December 2, 2013 by RynoRules

[Guest]

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

https://twitter.com/ScottLindholm/status/407506999937482753/photo/1/large

 

Robbie Gould is 72% in his career from 40-49, and 91% from 30-39. One more first down made a huge difference.

 

I see your point, but now we are talking about getting another 8 yards, which very likely requires two more plays from scrimmage, thus doubling the risk of a turnover, penalty. etc. I don't think it's a bad argument, I just think it isn't as obvious as some here are portraying it to be.

 

Why does it have to take 2 more plays? If you don't get the 8 yards, then take the long kick.

 

47 - 39 = 8.

 

Uh, ok?

[Guest]

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

https://twitter.com/ScottLindholm/status/407506999937482753/photo/1/large

 

Robbie Gould is 72% in his career from 40-49, and 91% from 30-39. One more first down made a huge difference.

 

It seems like he's been a lot better from long distance in the past couple of years though. I'd like to see that stat breakdown for just the last 2 years.

 

Can't imagine two years is a big enough sample.

[RynoRules]

None of this matters if Cassel didn't play. He's better than Ponder. We would have won in regulation if Ponder had continued.

[rawaction]

Not me. I was concerned as early as last season, and I probably said as much here. The defense is old and the safeties have sucked for years. Aside from Wooten, the younger players were unproven, inconsistent or outright bad.

 

We can argue the kick issue back and forth all day. Yeah, a couple of more yards may have made a difference, but I'd guess not as much as everyone here seems to think.

 

And by the way, just because "everyone" shares a similar opinion doesn't mean it's correct.

 

So, you knew Wright, who by all accounts was above average last year and Conte who was league average in his 2nd season would be the 2 worst safeties in the league this year? And of course the young players were unproven, that's because their [expletive] young! Wright and Conte had more experience than Wootton, yet you were confident in him and not in them? Makes no sense. Paea also was a full-time starter in 2012, unlike Wootton who took over 1/2 way thru for Idonije.

 

And if everyone shares an opinion, it doesn't mean it's right.....but it means its the most logical. We could argue it all day, but it's clear which side is the most logical.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

47 - 39 = 8.

 

Kyle's point seems to have been that 8 more yards significantly improves Gould's chances.

 

Taking it literally at that level works too, but an even better way to look at it is to understand that somewhere between 47 and 40 is where the odds begin to uptick considerably with every yard.

[WrigleyField 22]

I'd look to pick up speed WR to stick in the slot in the 2nd or 3rd but i'd be looking defense pretty much everywhere else.

 

Maybe an OL somewhere later but the defense really needs the attention...the offense is so solid and I don't see a ton of places to add (TE depth, as raw noted, and a 3rd WR...and you're always looking to develop OL).

While I understand wanting a speedy slot guy I think 2nd or 3rd round would be a pretty big waste in resources on that unless the guy is just a clear BPA. The Johnny Knoxes and Eddie Royals of the world go in the 4-5 round and while they will never be number ones can be really effective with a Brandon Marshall taking away attention (not to mention a second Brandon Marshall). FA scrap heap could probably find a guy to fill that role too. Hopefully like Royal and Knox a guy like that will be a kick returner too so that we can cut ties with Hester.