Offseason Rumors

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm not a fan of giving up assets for players who provide nothing with their bat.

 

Either the deal involves one of Zimmer and Ventura and hopefully Almonte and then Cain is basically a really valuable throw-in (along with Crow), or it doesn't and the deal is horse [expletive].

 

Is this like when Fernando Perez was a really valuable throw in, and Joey Gathright was a good signing, and Tony Campana was a really valuable piece that one season?

[Clem Fandango]

ABTY mentioned we could engage Seattle for Zunino, with Shark possibly....

 

How high is Zunino's value? Would he be a guy who needs a player like Franklin or Ackley included or just him and a low level prospect with upside?

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm not a fan of giving up assets for players who provide nothing with their bat.

Yep. Our offense is bad enough.

 

 

Net runs are net runs.

WAR is great and all, but offensive value is much easier to calculate. Cain is basically Darwin Barney of CF, which I'm not particularly interested in.

 

Except Cain is much better at being valuable.

 

Barney was more valuable in 2012 than any season of Cain's

[SouthSideRyan]

ABTY:

Cubs, Royals zeroed in on each other right now- lots of names thrown around... Royals like Junior Lake quite a bit, could be as simple as a one for one or two for one...

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_knkvaxcxu7Q/TGBVtjw5gaI/AAAAAAAAARg/c7CYUdHS3lw/s1600/clue+1+2+1+1.jpg

[Tracer Bullet]

ABTY:

Cubs, Royals zeroed in on each other right now- lots of names thrown around... Royals like Junior Lake quite a bit, could be as simple as a one for one or two for one...

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_knkvaxcxu7Q/TGBVtjw5gaI/AAAAAAAAARg/c7CYUdHS3lw/s1600/clue+1+2+1+1.jpg

 

hahaha YES

[Guest]

Except Cain is much better at being valuable.

 

Barney was more valuable in 2012 than any season of Cain's

 

Depends on whose fielding numbers you believe in.

 

Guys like Gathright or Campana or Fernando Perez haven't proven nearly what Cain has at the MLB level. Barney pre-2013 is a closer comparison, but Cain's still shown more with the bat:

 

Barney MiLB: .288/.337/.378/.715 (note: his 75 games at AA were the only time he really exceeded that .715 OPS)

Barney MLB(pre-'13): .263 /.305/.349/.654

 

Cain MiLB: .294/.367/.431/.797

Cain MLB: .266/.318/.380/.698

[Guest]

 

Except Cain is much better at being valuable.

 

Barney was more valuable in 2012 than any season of Cain's

 

 

Barney 2012 - 2.3 WAR in 156 games

Cain 2013 - 2.6 WAR in 115 games

 

 

Barney career - 5.0 WAR in 470 games

Cain career - 5.4 WAR in 225 games

[Boris]

This just in: Cain in a Landslide!

[Clem Fandango]

 

Except Cain is much better at being valuable.

 

Barney was more valuable in 2012 than any season of Cain's

 

 

Barney 2012 - 2.3 WAR in 156 games

Cain 2013 - 2.6 WAR in 115 games

 

 

Barney career - 5.0 WAR in 470 games

Cain career - 5.4 WAR in 225 games

 

He's likely using B-R which lists Barney's 2012 as 4.6 rWAR. Cain's best season was this past season which was a 3.2 rWAR. Cain's career rWAR is still greater than Barney's though, 7.4 to 6.4. Also, Cain had a 2.1 rWAR in 43 games in 2010 :shock:

Edited December 10, 2013 by The Logan

[Guest]

Depends on whose fielding numbers you believe in.

 

Doesn't UZR exclude shift plays? Does TZR or DRS?

[davell]

ABTY mentioned we could engage Seattle for Zunino, with Shark possibly....

 

How high is Zunino's value? Would he be a guy who needs a player like Franklin or Ackley included or just him and a low level prospect with upside?

Good question. He struggled a bit in his initial trial run, but value-wise, a one for one honestly seems fair. That said, it doesn't seem like a good fit. To me, he's not got that much more of an upside than Castillo does, he's just younger.

[SouthSideRyan]

Or we could just sign whoever the current Endy Chavez is

[davell]

We've been linked to both Scott Baker and Jason Hammel today. Hoyer mentioned we may look to add multiple starting pitchers, in his recap today with beat guys. Said no trades or signings are close, groundwork has been laid, blah, blah, blah.

[Fro]

If I were a GM, I'd say the same thing to lower expectations for the fanbase.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If I were a GM, I'd say the same thing to lower expectations for the fanbase.

 

It would be pretty hard to get my expectations any lower at this point, but if anyone can do it, they can.

[SouthSideRyan]

We've been linked to both Scott Baker and Jason Hammel today. Hoyer mentioned we may look to add multiple starting pitchers, in his recap today with beat guys. Said no trades or signings are close, groundwork has been laid, blah, blah, blah.

 

Is the thought that Baker was so bad last year due to a slow recovery?

[The-Kris-Bryant]

I'm not a fan of giving up assets for players who provide nothing with their bat.

 

 

Ditto. I'd hope at least half their value is with the bat. Fielding metrics remain trashy trash. Period.

[Guest]

ABTY

Cubs have a solid feel on exactly what deals they can pull together for Samardzija after detailed talks today with multiple teams- talking to Sharks rep's as a last ditch effort to see if he'll budge, if not I'd put an 80% likelihood Jeff Samrdzija will be wearing another uniform by Thursday at the latest...

 

Know the Yankees have been trying to get a third team involved, possibly flipping Gardner for prospects- Royals of course- Mariners were briefly, seems they prefer to just simply sign a Garza instead- A team no one is talking about is the Pirates- if AJ Burnett retires, Samardzija is their top target- another under the radar team was the Rockies who apparently offered Pomeranz plus for Shark but were rebuffed...

 

I'm 100% sure while they prefer a pitching prospect as the main piece, they'll pull the trigger on the best offer regardless...this FO will always goes best available over need...

 

Cubs apparently have a solid offer for Joba Chamberlain on the table (the reported 1 yr 3M) however the Mets and at least one other team has discussed the possibility of moving him back to the rotation which could pull him away from the guaranteed cash (likely a starting gig would also have much more incentive cash involved as well)

 

Two agents have told me, despite the teams claims to the contrary, they believe the Cubs are in fact searching for at least one SP who they hope to be able to flip at the deadline... Names I've heard the most: Edinson Volquez, Roberto Hernandez and Gavin Floyd

 

The '80%' figure is my own... problem is, there are too many options on the market currently- the team dealing for him has to have him as their top choice and while there are a ton of teams 'in' on Shark, most have him as plan B (or even C)...Really, to my knowledge, only the Royals and D'Backs have targeted him as 'the' guy...

 

Side note: to those wondering, Skaggs was never a target by the Cubs in a Shark deal... dealing Eaton hurt a potential deal much more than Skaggs...

[SouthSideRyan]

another under the radar team was the Rockies who apparently offered Pomeranz plus for Shark but were rebuffed...

 

Maybe they're under(off) the radar because their offer had friggin Pomeranz as the lead piece.

 

Two agents have told me, despite the teams claims to the contrary, they believe the Cubs are in fact searching for at least one SP who they hope to be able to flip at the deadline... Names I've heard the most: Edinson Volquez, Roberto Hernandez and Gavin Floyd

 

I would think the fact that none of those guys are any good might limit the midseason return.

[Guest]

LOL at Wittenmyer

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/24302219-573/market-for-jeff-samardzija-is-drying-up.html

 

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — Two days into the winter meetings, and the Cubs pulled off an improbable feat.

 

They are actually in worse shape than when they started.

 

They also got upstaged again by the White Sox on the day the owner arrived for his first winter meetings appearance.

 

It didn’t look so right when the efforts to trade Jeff

Samardzija for a strong package of young players took a broadside hit from the three-team deal that netted the Sox young outfielder Adam Eaton and sent the Diamondbacks’ top pitching prospect, Tyler Skaggs, to the Angels for outfielder Mark Trumbo.

 

Skaggs was considered to be part of any package that would be attractive enough for the Cubs to trade their 2013 Opening Day starter. Arizona has actively pursued Samardzija since July.

 

Oh, and then...

 

“I know people look at the ticker and refresh [mlbtrade-

rumors.com] all the time,” general manager Jed Hoyer said. “Obviously, when you start talking to an agent or start talking to a team you hope it comes to fruition quickly, too. I think it’ll be productive. I’m not sure whether it’ll lead to a move before we leave or not.”

 

That’s a far cry from the vision Epstein expressed last week when he said the Cubs will be “dictating all those big moves” instead of watching and waiting for prospects to hit.

 

Yeah, that's not what Theo said. It sucks that they're not, but that's not what he said. What a god damn hack.

[ctcf]

LOL at Wittenmyer

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/24302219-573/market-for-jeff-samardzija-is-drying-up.html

 

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — Two days into the winter meetings, and the Cubs pulled off an improbable feat.

 

They are actually in worse shape than when they started.

 

They also got upstaged again by the White Sox on the day the owner arrived for his first winter meetings appearance.

 

It didn’t look so right when the efforts to trade Jeff

Samardzija for a strong package of young players took a broadside hit from the three-team deal that netted the Sox young outfielder Adam Eaton and sent the Diamondbacks’ top pitching prospect, Tyler Skaggs, to the Angels for outfielder Mark Trumbo.

 

Skaggs was considered to be part of any package that would be attractive enough for the Cubs to trade their 2013 Opening Day starter. Arizona has actively pursued Samardzija since July.

 

Oh, and then...

 

“I know people look at the ticker and refresh [mlbtrade-

rumors.com] all the time,” general manager Jed Hoyer said. “Obviously, when you start talking to an agent or start talking to a team you hope it comes to fruition quickly, too. I think it’ll be productive. I’m not sure whether it’ll lead to a move before we leave or not.”

 

That’s a far cry from the vision Epstein expressed last week when he said the Cubs will be “dictating all those big moves” instead of watching and waiting for prospects to hit.

 

Yeah, that's not what Theo said. It sucks that they're not, but that's not what he said. What a [expletive] hack.

 

There's just so much to make fun of.

[CubsWin]

“I know people look at the ticker and refresh [mlbtrade-

rumors.com] all the time,” general manager Jed Hoyer said. “Obviously, when you start talking to an agent or start talking to a team you hope it comes to fruition quickly, too. I think it’ll be productive. I’m not sure whether it’ll lead to a move before we leave or not.”

 

That’s a far cry from the vision Epstein expressed last week when he said the Cubs will be “dictating all those big moves” instead of watching and waiting for prospects to hit.

 

Yeah, that's not what Theo said. It sucks that they're not, but that's not what he said. What a [expletive] hack.

Actually, the quote is exact. Theo did say the words "dictating all those big moves" in that exact order. Of course, Gordon also knows that he was referring to the future because Theo preceded that quote with the words "there will be a day real soon". Wittenmyer is either a [expletive] hack and a moron or an intentional dick. Possibly both...

[ctcf]

Look at you guys getting all hung up on silly things like "context."

[d_money]

LOL at Wittenmyer

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/24302219-573/market-for-jeff-samardzija-is-drying-up.html

 

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — Two days into the winter meetings, and the Cubs pulled off an improbable feat.

 

They are actually in worse shape than when they started.

 

They also got upstaged again by the White Sox on the day the owner arrived for his first winter meetings appearance.

 

It didn’t look so right when the efforts to trade Jeff

Samardzija for a strong package of young players took a broadside hit from the three-team deal that netted the Sox young outfielder Adam Eaton and sent the Diamondbacks’ top pitching prospect, Tyler Skaggs, to the Angels for outfielder Mark Trumbo.

 

Skaggs was considered to be part of any package that would be attractive enough for the Cubs to trade their 2013 Opening Day starter. Arizona has actively pursued Samardzija since July.

 

Oh, and then...

 

“I know people look at the ticker and refresh [mlbtrade-

rumors.com] all the time,” general manager Jed Hoyer said. “Obviously, when you start talking to an agent or start talking to a team you hope it comes to fruition quickly, too. I think it’ll be productive. I’m not sure whether it’ll lead to a move before we leave or not.”

 

That’s a far cry from the vision Epstein expressed last week when he said the Cubs will be “dictating all those big moves” instead of watching and waiting for prospects to hit.

 

Yeah, that's not what Theo said. It sucks that they're not, but that's not what he said. What a [expletive] hack.

...and GW can't figure out why the FO won't let him in on any deals ahead of time. What a tool.

[jersey cubs fan]

“I know people look at the ticker and refresh [mlbtrade-

rumors.com] all the time,” general manager Jed Hoyer said. “Obviously, when you start talking to an agent or start talking to a team you hope it comes to fruition quickly, too. I think it’ll be productive. I’m not sure whether it’ll lead to a move before we leave or not.”

 

That’s a far cry from the vision Epstein expressed last week when he said the Cubs will be “dictating all those big moves” instead of watching and waiting for prospects to hit.

 

Yeah, that's not what Theo said. It sucks that they're not, but that's not what he said. What a [expletive] hack.

Actually, the quote is exact. Theo did say the words "dictating all those big moves" in that exact order. Of course, Gordon also knows that he was referring to the future because Theo preceded that quote with the words "there will be a day real soon". Wittenmyer is either a [expletive] hack and a moron or an intentional dick. Possibly both...

Or maybe he took the "real soon" part as truthful.