2013-2014 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Old Style]

I really don't want to see Noah go. I hope that's not in the plans.

 

With regards to the draft picks, I read it as the Bulls get the Sacramento pick for this draft without any restrictions. The lottery protection was on the Bulls swapping their first round pick with the Cavs first round pick in 2015. Am I misunderstanding that? It was late last night when I was looking at it so I could be way off.

[WrigleyField 22]

I really don't want to see Noah go. I hope that's not in the plans.

 

With regards to the draft picks, I read it as the Bulls get the Sacramento pick for this draft without any restrictions. The lottery protection was on the Bulls swapping their first round pick with the Cavs first round pick in 2015. Am I misunderstanding that? It was late last night when I was looking at it so I could be way off.

The Sac pick is as follows:

 

2014: Top 12 protected

2015: Top 10

2016: Top 10

2017: Top 10, if not conveyed, a 2017 second rounder (apparently 55-60 protected, but this doesn't make much sense to me, so we'll just say it would be a second rounder in the 31-40 range)

[Old Style]

Well that blows. That pick won't turn into anything at that rate.

[scarey]

I really don't want to see Noah go. I hope that's not in the plans.

 

With regards to the draft picks, I read it as the Bulls get the Sacramento pick for this draft without any restrictions. The lottery protection was on the Bulls swapping their first round pick with the Cavs first round pick in 2015. Am I misunderstanding that? It was late last night when I was looking at it so I could be way off.

The Sac pick is as follows:

 

2014: Top 12 protected

2015: Top 10

2016: Top 10

2017: Top 10, if not conveyed, a 2017 second rounder (apparently 55-60 protected, but this doesn't make much sense to me, so we'll just say it would be a second rounder in the 31-40 range)

 

Let me make sure I have this right, cause it seems like it shouldn't be the way I'm understanding it.

 

If the Kings finish in the top 10 in the lottery every year up until 2017, the Bulls ONLY get a 2nd round pick? Or do they get the 2018 pick unrestricted along with the 2017 2nd round pick?

[ConstableRabbit]

http://i.imgur.com/UbBLAI2.jpg

[WrigleyField 22]

I really don't want to see Noah go. I hope that's not in the plans.

 

With regards to the draft picks, I read it as the Bulls get the Sacramento pick for this draft without any restrictions. The lottery protection was on the Bulls swapping their first round pick with the Cavs first round pick in 2015. Am I misunderstanding that? It was late last night when I was looking at it so I could be way off.

The Sac pick is as follows:

 

2014: Top 12 protected

2015: Top 10

2016: Top 10

2017: Top 10, if not conveyed, a 2017 second rounder (apparently 55-60 protected, but this doesn't make much sense to me, so we'll just say it would be a second rounder in the 31-40 range)

 

Let me make sure I have this right, cause it seems like it shouldn't be the way I'm understanding it.

 

If the Kings finish in the top 10 in the lottery every year up until 2017, the Bulls ONLY get a 2nd round pick? Or do they get the 2018 pick unrestricted along with the 2017 2nd round pick?

Just the 2017 second. This was part of the Caspi/Hickson trade, so obviously Sacramento was hedging their bets so the didn't eventually give up a top ten pick for Hickson, which Cleveland obviously found as reasonable.

 

Slightly OT, but I hate those drawn out pick protections for teams. Do you know for Sacramento, they've been unable to trade their pick and will remain so for the entire time that protection lasts? For JJ Hickson! What if an opportunity had come up to trade firsts for a star player. Granted you have teams like the Knicks on the other side who just give them away unprotected, but trading firsts is a tricky thing to do in this business until you get much closer to the draft in question.

[Guest]

Yea it's unfortunately kind of late. They've been on a relative tear and distanced themselves from a respectable tank pick.

 

If you want a meaningful tank you have to be all in. Noah and Boozer( if possible) gone. Move Butler if you need to ensure proper assets in return. Just moving Deng does nothing really meaningful.

 

Edit- Damn I'm sad to see Deng gone. Was awesome to watch him all these years and glad they stuck with him through his rough injury patch. Good luck Deng!

 

This is how I feel too. Wish the return was more meaningful.

 

I think its extremely meaningful. There was almost no way for the Bulls to get under the luxury tax this year without making this move. Now this sort of resets the luxury tax clock a bit going forward. The Bulls will be able to go over the luxury tax in one of the next 2 seasons and not have to pay a steep penalty the rest of the way. My guess is that they stay under the threshold next year, bring Mirotic and anywhere from 1-3 draft picks and then build for a run in 2 years.

 

If we don't get out of the luxury tax this year, we would have to stay under it the next 2 seasons because there is no way JR is paying the repeater penalty. Makes sense to go under in a year without Rose and the team going nowhere.

I definitely agree with you, and I always try and view the decisions as though JR is my boss. That being said, the average fun just doesn't get all that and expects the team to just pay whatever. So I preface it with the not-meaningful. Definitely does make sense to avoid the tax now though.

 

No, I fully understand the luxury tax reasoning and how important this trade is for the future. I strictly meant more meaningful from a talent perspective, since it appears unlikely the Bulls will get a first rounder.

[Guest]

The kings will likely finish outside the top 10 sometime during that time frame.

[bukie]

Deng finishes his Bulls career as the 4th leading scorer in Bulls history behind Jordan, Pippen, and Bob Love.

[UMFan83]

The kings will likely finish outside the top 10 sometime during that time frame.

 

Let's hope so. They have finished outside the top 10 once (12th) since 2007 and still suck.

[Guest]

The kings will likely finish outside the top 10 sometime during that time frame.

 

Let's hope so. They have finished outside the top 10 once (12th) since 2007 and still suck.

Once is all it takes!

[SpongeWorthy]

The kings will likely finish outside the top 10 sometime during that time frame.

 

I'll put it at like 55/45

[cubbyvirus00]

I like this trade. You get a return for Deng who's going to be a FA anyway.

[CubColtPacer]

If they are going to amnesty Boozer, sign Mirotic, and make a run at Carmelo, they could be just as good, if not better next year. Obviously it all depends on Rose returning at an extremely high level, but Rose/Butler/Mirotic/Carmelo/Noah with Taj, Dunleavy, Snell and filler on the bench is as good as what they had before.

 

I can't see a reasonable way to sign Carmelo without getting rid of Noah. The projected salary cap is 62.1 million. The starting salary for Carmelo on a max deal would be 22.46 million. So that means the Bulls could only have 39.64 million on the books to sign him outright.

 

Rose and Noah by themselves cost 31.06. So that only leaves 8.58 million for the rest of the roster. Add in cap holds for Mirotic (1.075), a first round pick (somewhere between 1-2 million) and roster charge cap holds of the minimum salary for every player the Bulls are short of a full roster (400,000 approx each), and you're probably looking at more like four million for the rest of the roster.

 

So unless the Bulls are willing to gut their entire team, or Camelo takes a discount, or somehow the Knicks agree to a sign and trade, I don't see a Rose/Carmelo/Noah core happening. And if it did, that would mean they wouldn't have room to bring over Mirotic over next year.

 

I like this deal for the Bulls. It gives them assets, lots of money, resets their luxury tax, and gives them a better draft pick next year, all for a guy who has been great for them but there were questions on both sides whether he was the right fit for a new contract.

[UMFan83]

http://i.imgur.com/4vSMWLO.jpg?1

 

take a good look while you can

[WrigleyField 22]

http://i.imgur.com/4vSMWLO.jpg?1

 

take a good look while you can

Deja Vu.

 

Didn't realise you posted at RealGm too.

[UMFan83]

http://i.imgur.com/4vSMWLO.jpg?1

 

take a good look while you can

Deja Vu.

 

Didn't realise you posted at RealGm too.

 

Not as much as I used to, kind of got sick of the same rehashed arguments for page upon page. But for big events like this its required reading/commenting.

[scarey]

I really don't want to see Noah go. I hope that's not in the plans.

 

With regards to the draft picks, I read it as the Bulls get the Sacramento pick for this draft without any restrictions. The lottery protection was on the Bulls swapping their first round pick with the Cavs first round pick in 2015. Am I misunderstanding that? It was late last night when I was looking at it so I could be way off.

The Sac pick is as follows:

 

2014: Top 12 protected

2015: Top 10

2016: Top 10

2017: Top 10, if not conveyed, a 2017 second rounder (apparently 55-60 protected, but this doesn't make much sense to me, so we'll just say it would be a second rounder in the 31-40 range)

 

Let me make sure I have this right, cause it seems like it shouldn't be the way I'm understanding it.

 

If the Kings finish in the top 10 in the lottery every year up until 2017, the Bulls ONLY get a 2nd round pick? Or do they get the 2018 pick unrestricted along with the 2017 2nd round pick?

Just the 2017 second. This was part of the Caspi/Hickson trade, so obviously Sacramento was hedging their bets so the didn't eventually give up a top ten pick for Hickson, which Cleveland obviously found as reasonable.

 

Slightly OT, but I hate those drawn out pick protections for teams. Do you know for Sacramento, they've been unable to trade their pick and will remain so for the entire time that protection lasts? For JJ Hickson! What if an opportunity had come up to trade firsts for a star player. Granted you have teams like the Knicks on the other side who just give them away unprotected, but trading firsts is a tricky thing to do in this business until you get much closer to the draft in question.

 

That's just weird that Cleveland would agree to this. There's supposed to be a payoff if your trade partner sucks for long enough.

[UMFan83]

BullsBlogger ‏@BullsBlogger 12m

@NickFriedell on @ESPN1000 says that his feeling is Bulls now less confident in Mirotic coming this offseason after recent scouting trip.

[SpongeWorthy]

BullsBlogger ‏@BullsBlogger 12m

@NickFriedell on @ESPN1000 says that his feeling is Bulls now less confident in Mirotic coming this offseason after recent scouting trip.

 

The teams in this town suck at punching above their weight.

[UMFan83]

More fun:

 

K.C. Johnson ‏@KCJHoop 10m

Thibodeau, on whether his opinion on trade conflicted with management's: "We discussed it. I’m going to leave it at that."

[Cubswin11]

BullsBlogger ‏@BullsBlogger 12m

@NickFriedell on @ESPN1000 says that his feeling is Bulls now less confident in Mirotic coming this offseason after recent scouting trip.

Should we take that to mean that they feel Mirotic is going to want to stay for personal reasons? Or since it was a "Scouting trip" do they feel he is going to stay because he needs to work on stuff/isn't ready yet?

[Banedon]

BullsBlogger ‏@BullsBlogger 12m

@NickFriedell on @ESPN1000 says that his feeling is Bulls now less confident in Mirotic coming this offseason after recent scouting trip.

Should we take that to mean that they feel Mirotic is going to want to stay for personal reasons? Or since it was a "Scouting trip" do they feel he is going to stay because he needs to work on stuff/isn't ready yet?

 

My understanding is that Real Madrid has been pushing hard for him to stay.

[Guest]

Good read from Zach Lowe: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/88016/the-cavs-are-thinking-playoffs-the-bulls-are-thinking-ahead

 

Back to Chicago, and to free agency: This will be Chicago's last summer before Jimmy Butler is due a new contract, which will add another large deal to a pile that includes Rose, Joakim Noah, and Taj Gibson. Bring Butler back at a fair rate, ink Mirotic, and factor in all the picks Chicago is now due (including a first-rounder from Charlotte at some point), and the Bulls could be facing limited cap flexibility in future summers after this one. A lot can change, obviously; the cap will continue to go up, the Bulls will make trades, and Noah's deal is up after 2015-16.

 

But the Bulls have some incentive to use this newfound cap flexibility while they have it, either in free agency or in some lopsided trade. Remember: Deng may emerge as one of the top three real free agents this summer, and the Bulls just let him go. They have to replace his production, at some point, somehow. Mirotic and the picks will help, but the Bulls need more proven stuff on the wing in addition to Butler, Mike Dunleavy, and the untested Tony Snell. If I were Gar Forman/John Paxson, I'd think hard about breaking the bank for Lance Stephenson — an unrestricted free agent who could work on the wing next to Butler and effectively serve as the team's backup point guard, a role Stephenson is playing now for Indiana. Stephenson is a rare thing — an under-25, unrestricted free agent. The Bulls might have to carve out a bit more room to realistically chase him, perhaps by salary-dumping the helpless Marquis Teague, but it's worth a thought. (Side note on Mirotic: The 2014 draft will mark three years since the Bulls picked Mirotic, meaning they could sign him outside the restrictions of the rookie scale, per several league sources.)

 

If Chicago can't find the right free-agency target, it could hold the fort with a couple of affordable veterans, and use its new bevy of assets to kick around potential trade ideas for big names who might become available.

 

This trade puts Chicago in a very good place. It's hard to come out much better while losing an All-Star in what amounts to a salary dump/tanking maneuver.

[USSoccer]

I'm not at all surprised that a guy his age would rather make money in Madrid than in cold ass Chicago.